Review Autopsy Thread: Round 1 Adelaide v Hawthorn

[TAITA]

But are you surprised TAITA?

On the basis of the first half we would all be slapping ourselves on the back & talking about multiple flags - and on the back of the second we get rid of half the coaching & admin staff & delist 5-10 premiership players.

As you know, footy is a journey BB - there is no silverware to taste the champagne from for a R1 win.

However, having being privy to a few snippets here and there, I have not been more confident since '08 that we are fully equipped to take that journey.

If we can keep the players on the park we will have a crack.

The MASSIVE over reaction to the loss has been, amongst other things, embarrassing and ridiculous.

I'd look forward to bumping this thread down the track but it just seems totally anal.

 

[eldorado]

The MASSIVE over reaction to the loss has been, amongst other things, embarrassing and ridiculous.

I'm finding myself getting very annoyed with the "It's over, we're s**t" brigade. (as may be seen in another thread, if it doesn't get wiped)

It's one game out of 22, folks. You can't possibly know that the season is a write-off.

We're all disappointed, but can we not get carried away with all the doom-saying?

 

[Dragz]

Re: Clarkson excuses - take some accountability for once

What I would like to see us do, is shut down opposition teams once they kick 2/3 goals in a row.

We've been rubbish at it for years.

 

[Furn]

Anyone else see a pattern to our games?

Looking at 2010 and rd 1 2011. There seems to be a clear pattern as to how our games go.

Now taking out the outliers where we either were smashed (Pies rd 4, Sydney etc) and games where we smashed undermanned sides (Crows, Freo etc) most of our games have a pattern.

The 1st 15 minutes is close, we then gain the ascenancy and get out to a 20-30 point lead.

We then seem to give away a couple of sloppy goals just when we have them on toast and give up the momentum and our lead is slowly worn down until we are behind early in the 4th 1/4.

Then we either turn it on and win it. (Bombers, Port, Swans, Bulldogs, Tigers etc ) or we fall away and lose (Cats twice, Bulldogs 1st game, saints draw, North, Eagles, last night etc)

So what is going on.

I see 3 possibilties.

1. We are told to play hard 1st half and slow down 3rd qtr to save petrol.

2. We get ahead and think we've got it and get sloppy.

3. We have forgotten how to win and start thinking too much and worry about blowing a lead.

In 08 when we got up we put teams away. we have to relearn this or we wont go anywhere. Too many close last qtrs will take its toll. You need some easy wins or your burnt out by September.

 

[TAITA]

Re: Anyone else see a pattern to our games?

In 08 when we got up we put teams away. we have to relearn this or we wont go anywhere. Too many close last qtrs will take its toll. You need some easy wins or your burnt out by September.

Disagree totally, in '07-'08 we basically wore teams down - exhausted them - before running over the top in the last.

As long as we were within 5 goals at the last change I was supremely confident we could run over any side.

With respect to your OP though - yes, there definitely has been a change in attitude.

 

[Furn]

Re: Clarkson excuses - take some accountability for once

CLarko cant go out and kick the ball and make tackles and hold marks and not fumble.

The gameplan got us 30 points up and it should have been 50. Its an all or nothing style. Do it well and its almost impossible to play against. Do it badly ( miss tackles, turn it over, drop marks) and you will see guys running into open goals.

It was sloppy all night, and once the Crows got going it showed. We still had 25 shots and butchered another 10 clear chances. Polish it up and thats a winning score every week.

Not many teams will beat the Crows over there this year.

 

[Furn]

Re: Anyone else see a pattern to our games?

Disagree totally, in '07-'08 we basically wore teams down - exhausted them - before running over the top in the last.

As long as we were within 5 goals at the last change I was supremely confident we could run over any side.

With respect to your OP though - yes, there definitely has been a change in attitude.

Yeh your right we won almost every last 1/4 in 08. But we didnt give up 30 point leads to teams like Richmond and Essendon either.

 

[B&GBlood]

To those too lazy to bother reading this thread and post miss-informed BS.

Lewis tagged Johncock for 3/4 hence his reduced output. Did a fine job. Wasn't as effective as I would have like in the last but he had a few mates of course.

Sewell rolled an ankle, hence he was subbed.

If we had been a little more efficient we would have been so far ahead at half time nothing would have stopped us. Probably played some of the best footy we have played for years.

We coffed it up or the Umpires stopped us every time we mounted a challenge in the second half. Very dissapointing but there is stuff to work with.

 

[checkraiseulite]

First off, apart from Mitchell who I thought was pretty good (disposal wasn't always top-notch), Burgers had me salivating. His level-headedness and disposal was fantastic. We asked how he'd go with a proper pre-season, and we got the answer.

We've always known he is a great clearance midfielder with good disposal and decision making ability.

However his game last night was overrated by many on here. He went missing when the game was up for grabs. We need more from him in the future, especially at the business end of important games.

 

[Goldhawk]

Renouf requires 2 full seasons of development at Box Hill. He needs to learn
the art of tap work
the art of timing your jump
the art of kicking
the art of marking
the art of handballing


Once Suzie is competent in the above areas and learns the rules regarding ruck contests then he should be playing for Hawthorn.

I have been saying this for 3 years but no one will listen to me.

Looks like Monkhurst has a bit of work to do for Renouf

 

[Furn]

Why merge threads about gameplan over the last year or so into the Adelaide game thread ? Thats just stupid.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who could shed some light on Clarkson's role in the box last night (after coaching from the boundary for most of last season).

He seemed almost detached from it all, without a headset or laptop in sight - infact that detached if you put a beer in one hand and a ponger in the other, it could have been me.

Some new variation perhaps?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hard-boiled/story-e6frf9jf-1226028827812

HERALD Sun footy writer Mark Stevens gives his take on some of the issues he has identified so far from Round 1 of the AFL season.
PLAYING BACK POCKET

HAWTHORN coach Alastair Clarkson featured prominently on Channel 10's coverage last night, up the back of the box on his own.

His rival, Neil Craig, was down on the bench, where he escaped such scrutiny.

It was strange to see Clarkson without the "cans" on. Clearly, he was trying something a little different - even if it was played down after the game.

Without a phone or headphones, Clarkson barked instructions to others, who then passed it down to the bench.

The anguish after every ****-up (and there were plenty) made for riveting TV. Clarkson was as passionate as he has been in recent times.


Click on the link to read the rest

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

I'm finding myself getting very annoyed with the "It's over, we're s**t" brigade. (as may be seen in another thread, if it doesn't get wiped)

It's one game out of 22, folks. You can't possibly know that the season is a write-off.

We're all disappointed, but can we not get carried away with all the doom-saying?

I'II join you on this El, but I'm starting to get worried. This is strike 1.
The whole comp was 'watching' last night to see how we went. Tipsters etc have put us top 4 for a reason. We've all beeen told what a good preseason it has been. At half time most of the opposition would be saying top 4, at the end of it they saw a 50 point turnaround and having a quiet chuckle at us.
I caught the end of the Melbourne game on the radio and the commentators said the dees were full of running at the end of the game.
Could that be strike 2? Richmond (3), surely not West Coast in tassie.
Could be a long two weeks to fill in for the round 6 bye.
Lets hope by then were 4 and 1 and everyone is back smiling.

If we let a few slip before the bye we will have no respect from the opposition and no matter how far they are behind they will believe they are a chance.

 

[Brown Blood]

As you know, footy is a journey BB - there is no silverware to taste the champagne from for a R1 win.

..............................................................

The MASSIVE over reaction to the loss has been, amongst other things, embarrassing and ridiculous.

I'd look forward to bumping this thread down the track but it just seems totally anal.

As we all know TAITA history was brought up a lot this week regarding this game.

In 1991 adelaide destroyed us in round one but didn't even make the finals that year - and we went on to finish 2nd in the H&A with 16 wins and went on to win the flag.

I agree I wouldn't be writing off the year just yet - that said we do need to learn from what happened.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'm surprised we got to 5 goals up and disappointed we lost in such a big turnaround.

That was a massive tease from the guys, I don't approve of that. The disappointment of everyone here doesn't concern me - I'm glad our supporters are so passionate.

Adelaide is a hard trip - a win would have been amazing for the confidence and belief of the group. A loss, well I'm not sure where that leaves us? It was a chance to make a statement and we didn't take it.

I'm disappointed. Really disappointed.

We can blame Clarkson, Renouf's awkward kicking action, the crowd, the umpires, the sub rule, the wind, but right now I'd prefer to look forward to next week, watch my team play at my favourite ground where I can actually get there and make some damn noise to support the boys!

 

[TheFourPillars]

I'm surprised we got to 5 goals up and disappointed we lost in such a big turnaround.

That was a massive tease from the guys, I don't approve of that. The disappointment of everyone here doesn't concern me - I'm glad our supporters are so passionate.

Adelaide is a hard trip - a win would have been amazing for the confidence and belief of the group. A loss, well I'm not sure where that leaves us? It was a chance to make a statement and we didn't take it.

I'm disappointed. Really disappointed.

We can blame Clarkson, Renouf's awkward kicking action, the crowd, the umpires, the sub rule, the wind, but right now I'd prefer to look forward to next week, watch my team play at my favourite ground where I can actually get there and make some damn noise to support the boys!

Damn straight been waiting for many months now Go hawks...

 

[OldCrowBloke]

As we all know TAITA history was brought up a lot this week regarding this game.

In 1991 adelaide destroyed us in round one but didn't even make the finals that year - and we went on to finish 2nd in the H&A with 16 wins and went on to win the flag.

I agree I wouldn't be writing off the year just yet - that said we do need to learn from what happened.

Jumping in...
I would agree with these sentiments.
This was always going to be a tough gig for the Hawks. HUGE build-up in Adelaide for the 20 year anniversary, 42k plus crowd against you (and being really loud for a change), road trip in round 1, a resurgent (hopefully!!) Crow team.

Your first half was awesome, and with just a little more "rub of the green" the game would have been iced by half time.

I think we were treated to 2 teams fighting it out, both of them a big chance for making the 8, and maybe even shaking top 4.

 

[hawk for 37]

Well it's been a s**tstorm on here the last 24 hours.

It will be nothing compared to next week if (heaven forbid) we lose to the Dees!!!

 

[raff23]

Re: Clarkson excuses - take some accountability for once

CLarko cant go out and kick the ball and make tackles and hold marks and not fumble.

The gameplan got us 30 points up and it should have been 50. Its an all or nothing style. Do it well and its almost impossible to play against. Do it badly ( miss tackles, turn it over, drop marks) and you will see guys running into open goals.

It was sloppy all night, and once the Crows got going it showed. We still had 25 shots and butchered another 10 clear chances. Polish it up and thats a winning score every week.

Not many teams will beat the Crows over there this year.

tbh i agree with this, most of the media are saying we probably should have won but just made too many stupid mistakes when we should have put them away. Not doom and gloom at all. Your right if we fix up the errors and start taking marks instead of dropping them, kicking straight and not creating sloppy turnovers we will kick 15+ a week. Im prepared after calming down today to give the side the benefit of the doubt, give them a couple more weeks to get some flow for longer periods instead of just 1 half of footy. Imo the bulldogs have much greater concerns than us, they were pathetic against an inferior side to adelaide. Play like the 1st half next week all game we will win.

 

[Franko Armani]

We will make Top 4 this year but i just dont think this game plan can win us another flag...

I see brown n gold robots out there are so glamoured with this gameplan that they have forgotton to play with their normal instincts.

The stupid handballs into trouble - ffs where is the awareness?

Bruce cost us 3 goals BUT (i hope) he wont play that bad again for us.

Hale - reasonably happy with his game.
Rioli - was good & really tried to lift us in the last - but I expect him to do this for more than just the last 1 qtr tho.
Burgoyne - looked sloppy at times dont thin he had much of an influence.
Buddy - It pains me to say this but he will never be the #1 player in the comp - sure he is a bit stiff on occasion with umpires but has too many ordinary games for a player of his talent. He will never be a great mark & his football smarts from a defensive point of view are horrific... same s**t different year.
Roughy - I am seeing a different Roughy albeit in very minor glimpses... should have a good year but he Captained this side last night & gave us.. well not much.
Lewis - blah.

Savage/Shiels/Stratton - our kids can play.

Our forward line structures just dont appear to be working with this game plan.. the disposal into 50 is so arratic.. 1 minute pint point pass, the next a few clangers....

WE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO TACKLE.

spot on post Kirbs. My sentiments exactly, cept I always talk up BUddy as the most talented player in the game. Agree with this 100%, everything I have wanted to post.

 

[hawksfan71]

Anyone else think the umpiring sucked? 17 to 6 free kicks at one stage in the 2nd quarter I think. Wow, watchted bit of the repaly on one this morning and buddy laid a good tackle on a guy and wow, just touched the top of his shoulder and BANG free kick. I know nothing knew, yadda yadda, I thought the Budweiser did well to keep his cool with so many free kicks given against him. Thought I was holucinating seeing a 50 point turn around, **** me, oh well, theres always next week! They looked sweet for a part of the game anyhow, be nice with Hodge in.

Oh yeh, kick it long for christ sake, pleassssssse...

 

[savagelunchbox]

Leaving the ground i heard a lot of people saying "what is it about AAMI that makes us play so bad?" I personally see it being the fact that AAMI seems far skinnier in comparison to the G. A skinnier ground equates to less room for an effective lead and a player like Buddy knows this and subsequently chooses not to lead and rely on his natural talent to get his goals. Something i noticed though was when Buddy was on the lead, he was unbeatable. Problem was it was few and far between.

In regards to the whole game, first off we didn't play that bad if you factor in the whole game. Most are only focusing on the 2nd half and yes that was rather 2009/2010 like. I wonder how different the game would have gone had we had a good ruckman playing? Mitchell, Sewell and Burgoyne were clearly dominating the first half with Renouf getting beaten so i wonder what would have happened if someone like Bailey was playing?

I putting big question marks over the likes of Ladson, Whitecross and Suckling, despite what people on here have been saying.

Ladson was prominent early, but that's not hard when the whole team is playing well. When the game was in the balance he was nowhere, and that to me, is the worry. I can't see him being a part of the team if we make a strong push for premiership/finals. He will only be saved because he has a gold pass from Clarko.

Whitecross was a waste of a sub. I've said this from the beginning that he cannot hit a target by foot. What good is leadership if when you kick, you kick ineffectively? We can't win with ball-butcheres in the side. Evidently he was made to look worse by the fact he came on when we went bad. But once again i'm sure Clarko's gold pass will keep him around.

Suckling will be gone based on the fact that he, Goo and Hodge all (can) play similar roles and they're better all-round players. And in the case of Hodge, can life a team when they're on the slide. Suckling has a weapon of a kick but never seems to use it enough. What good is having the tag of 'best kick at the club' when you're averaging <30m per kick and playing off the backline which requires long, effective kicks? Also, similar to Ladson, goes missing when the team goes on the slide. Another worrying sign with him is that he only plays for Hawthorn when the team is struggling. He's been around a while and when he's in the team, the team is struggling. Well IMO the team is struggling.

I agree with those calling for Lisle to play as a Boyle-esk type player from 2008. However, where does that leave Hale? Can't have both playing in the same team. I fear Lisle could be off to GWS due to lack of opportunity unless Hale, Roughy or Buddy go down with injury.

Well that's my 2 cents from last night. I'm pissed off we lost, but i'm not calling it the end of the season just yet. If we lose next week we might as well start planning for 2012 as we will only be an 'also ran' in 2011.

 

[mattyflux]

Re: Clarkson excuses - take some accountability for once

Exactly right Davo. Will take a few weeks to get everything sorted. A tweak of the gameplan (especially defensively). New players to fully understand their roles etc.
I loved the way we moved the ball in the first half. If people think that nothing has changed then they are seriously kidding themselves. I think if we can plug the holes and not allow those easy over the top goals on the rebound (which Mr Hodge will say something about) and organise our F50 a little better then we will be ok. Loved the additions of savage, shiels and Suckling. Liked Ladson, Sewell, Mitch, Young and Rioli's games too. Bit more consistency and a 4 quarter effort and I see us demolishing the Dee's next Sunday.

 

[Elliot G]

Disappointed - 30pts up and we squander it. We just do not travel nor do we bury teams when we have the chance.

They lost porps early, davis in the third and still they couldn't get up over them.

We can complain all we like about the umps but at the end of the day when you squander good leads you only have yourself to blame.

This

 

[dipper86]

1> Jordan Lewis tagging is such a waste, surely there are other players that are inferior to Jordans talent that can stick on a man......

2> Our field kicking is deplorable, especially the kick coming inside 50.

3> Not having an extra speedy crumber up in the forward line means the ball comes out as quick as we get it in = Teams are going to split us right through the middle with run and carry.

4> Missed Tackles in our backline, Bruce, Gibson and Gilham come to my mind(there was more) all 3 were missed tackles which resulted in goals.....