Brisbane- Another priority pick this year?

[Ron The Bear]

No I was re0ferring to the Pick 1 priority pick that Richmond received to draft Deledio, or does that one not count?

This shit again. It's been batted out of the park more times than a Nathan Lyon long hop, but still it gets raised.

Those were the rules at the time. The rules dictated shit performance X merits draft reward Y. In case you missed it, Carlton took it to extremes leading up to and during a thing known as the Kreuzer Cup where bookmakers refused to field and effectively declared to the world, "This ain't a contest." It should be engraved an inch deep on Demetriou's tombstone.

HERE LIES A.D.

CREATOR OF THE KREUZER CUP

"You're all delusional"

An absolute nadir in the game's history. The PP was abolished because it became a complete and utter farce.

You lot don't deserve one as much as Melbourne, who never came close to deserving one.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Brisbane have fixed their culture. The club as a whole is stable in very good hands.

The question of whether we should get a PP is whether it would really help us or if our club would just lose him in 2 years.

The only player we risk losing this year is Schache who IF he leaves, will be due to personal reasons, not because of the club. Trust me on that.

Back to the PP. We do NOT deserve one because we lost Docherty, Polec etc.

If we win 2 more games this year, that'd equal 10 wins in 3 years. A priority pick would speed up what is currently shaping up to be a 3-5 year rebuild before we are competitive. In my opinion a PP should be given based on the current rules regarding PPs. If any other club were facing 10 wins in 3 years I'd think they deserve one too.

Our club has been fixed internally. Don't judge us on the past as we've mended the issues in place. Guys like Rockliff, Mcstay, McLuggage etc will all sign on before the year is out and we will provide a good environment for all draftees hereon.

So who's telling the truth here? According to this post, Brisbane have things in order off the field. If so, the on-field will follow, as sure as night follows day.

Get this - you have no God-given right to be successful. When your team's shit, you either stick it out or you find something else to do. Please yourself.

You lot have seen three more flags than a lot of people on this forum. You ain't special.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Brisbane has been older than its opposition once this season. Guess which game?

If it's good enough for Carlton, it's good enough for Brisbane to play some journeymen to be competitive in the short term. But if you're going into full development mode and fielding the youngest teams in club history, you're going to get whumped, it goes with the territory. "Playing the kids" is not a justification for a PP.

 

[Sherrinator]

Maybe I am underestimating the pull of notoriety and fame. I would have thought with the intrusion of social media and everyone out and about having a camera in their pocket it would have been a negative.

Flying under the radar is a good thing isn't it? I'm probably just an old bastard stuck in the old days when no one wanted to stick just about every insignificant detail of their daily lives on twitter/facebook etc.

If you are a young fella, you want to be fairly well known, at least in the youth circles.

 

[Checkered]

So who's telling the truth here? According to this post, Brisbane have things in order off the field. If so, the on-field will follow, as sure as night follows day.

Get this - you have no God-given right to be successful. When your team's shit, you either stick it out or you find something else to do. Please yourself.

You lot have seen three more flags than a lot of people on this forum. You ain't special.

Lol no.

On field success won't follow if our playing list is severely lacking in talent. Even if it's all well and good off field, well still always be at a fair disadvantage when trying to attract talent.

Once again we aren't asking for success we just want to be competitive.

Classic success starved, one eyed Vic club supporter ITT

 

[Nunez]

Quoting a fantastic post.

Heading into the back half of the season, no doubt this conversation is going to pick up shortly. Trying as hard as possible to remove my Brisbane bias, I really do believe there is an overwhelmingly strong case for a start of first round priority pick this year. These are the two main reasons:

1. Comparison to other Priority Picks handed out in the past
Here is a list of each start of first round priority pick given out since the year 2000, along with the number of wins and average percentage that each club had from the prior four seasons (the season they received the pick as well as the three seasons preceding that year). The order is by most wins the team had in the four years leading up to the start of first round PP.

For Brisbane, I have included from season 2014 to where we currently sit halfway through season 2017. Obviously we may win more games this season and the average percentage from the past four years may rise, but this is accurate as of our 2017 Bye.

The chart also shows how many start of first round priority picks that club has received since the year 2000.
View attachment 377692
I'm aware that the rules have changed both in 2006 and in 2012 regarding priority picks, and that a number of the teams on this list received their priority picks under a much more generous system, however the point remains that at present we have by far the strongest argument for a start of first round priority pick of any of these clubs who have received one, yet we have never been given one at any stage.

The comparison to Melbourne of 2013 is often used - if they didn't get one that year, how could any club? It's not really a fair comparison though, as Melbourne had received two start of first round priority picks in the preceding ten years.

2. Players we've lost
Obviously we have lost a number of our young players over recent years and look set to lose another in Schache, and in almost all of these scenarios we have received less for the players than we initially drafted them for (bar Yeo, who was showing signs that he was really worth a fair bit more than we drafted him for).

Due to the quantity of players leaving at once, the lack of bargaining power we had with them being out of contract and nominating clubs, and the fact we had to accept whatever we could as they had all made their minds up to leave meant we really suffered in terms of what it did to our list quality.

This table is the players we've lost over recent years and what the differential of quality we received in return for them was in terms of draft points.
View attachment 377690
Essentially, that means we lost a total of 3668 draft points with those young players. That alone is equivalent to pick 1 & 29.

Summary
So we've never received a start of first round priority pick despite having the strongest case on field for one and also having lost the equivalent of picks 1 & 29 in terms of overall quality from our list due to player retention issues.

There are further in depth points that could be made to argue this, namely:
-Overall quality of our list by draft points
-Number of years spent out of the top 8 (round 1, 2012 being the last time we even had a cameo there)
-We've played just one finals campaign in thirteen years
-At the start of last season we lost one of our most promising young players to early retirement due to concussion
-We had to attempt part of our major list build in compromised drafts, being at the bottom of the ladder at the same time Gold Coast & GWS were given many picks to build their lists. This meant that what usually would have been earlier picks for us as a result of our finishing position were pushed back, further weakening the quality of the list we have now in comparison with the rest of the competition.
-In refer 'we created this mess, we should have to clean it up' argument as a reason we don't deserve a pick, it's worth pointing out that essentially every club who has ever received a priority pick created their own mess. Carlton (who have received three start of first round priority picks) received them after a salary cap breach. Melbourne got theirs from tanking.

So to compare this to the criteria the AFL currently sets out for priority picks:

• premiership points that a club has received over a period of years (with greater weight to recent seasons) As in the first table posted, we are in a very bad way in this regard
• a club's percentage (points for/points against x 100) over a period of years (another indication of on-field competitiveness, with greater weight to recent seasons) Also see table 1
• any finals appearances that a club has made in recent seasons None since 2009, 1 in the last 13 years
• any premierships that a club has won in recent seasons Three in the early 2000's, but that was well over a decade ago now
• a club's injury rates in each relevant season It couldn't be argued that our poor form is due to injuries, with our injury list being not significantly worse than that of any other club

I'm evidently quite strongly of the belief that this isn't just a fair argument for a start of first round priority pick, but the closest thing the competition will likely ever see to an irrefutable case.

We're rebuilding and will be for a while yet, but we need a massive injection of talent onto our list if we're ever going to build to be competitive again. There's already some talent on the list, but all of these factors paint a picture of just how far behind we're coming from and how poor the quality of our list has become.

 

[Toump Ass]

2003 Priority Picks. 1. Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs), 2 Andrew Walker (Carlton), 3 Colin Sylvia (Melbourne) Dogs and Melbourne then picked up Farren Ray and Kepler Bradley with Picks 4 and 5.

Brock McLean actually. Bradley was pick 6 (Essendon).

 

[Power Raid]

The Lions to become competitive need elite talent, which most of the time is going to be acquired through the draft. Most of the Lions' top draft picks have been for interstate players. That has obviously been necessary because most of the elite youngsters come from outside Queensland.

I would suggest at the same time the vast majority of of Richmond's top 20 draft picks have been from Victoria.

2015 - Pick 15 - Daniel Rioli - Ballarat Rebels
2014 - Pick 12 - Corey Ellis - Western Jets
2013 - Pick 12 - Ben Lennon - Northern Knights
2012 - Pick 9 - Nick Vlaustin - Northern Knights
2011 - Pick 15 - Brandon Ellis - Calder Cannons
2010 - Pick 6 - Reece Conca - Perth
2009 - Pick 3 - Dustin Martin - Bendigo Pioneers
Pick 19 - Benjamin Griffiths - Eastern Ranges
2008 - Pick 8 - Ty Vickery - Sandrigham Dragons
2007 - Pick 2 - Trent Cotchin - Northern Knights
2006 - Pick 18 - Alex Rance - Swan Districts (priority pick)
2005 - Pick 13 - Jack Riewoldt - Tassie Mariners.

Of Richmond's twelve Top 20 draft picks since 2005, nine have been from Victoria.

In contrast during that time Brisbane has had ONE Top 20 draft pick from Queensland which was Eric Hipwood.

That's the benefit of being located in a football state. Elite talent from football states drafted to non-football states will have considerable sums of money thrown at them by clubs from their home state in an effort to get them to return 'home' once their initial two year contract finishes.

Spot on

Qola needs to be introduced or watch footy die in Qld

 

[Broar]

This shit again. It's been batted out of the park more times than a Nathan Lyon long hop, but still it gets raised.

Those were the rules at the time. The rules dictated shit performance X merits draft reward Y. In case you missed it, Carlton took it to extremes leading up to and during a thing known as the Kreuzer Cup where bookmakers refused to field and effectively declared to the world, "This ain't a contest." It should be engraved an inch deep on Demetriou's tombstone.

HERE LIES A.D.

CREATOR OF THE KREUZER CUP

"You're all delusional"

An absolute nadir in the game's history. The PP was abolished because it became a complete and utter farce.

You lot don't deserve one as much as Melbourne, who never came close to deserving one.

'This shit' was only raised due to a couple of Richmond supporters jumping on there high horse and trying to lecture Brisbane supporters about how we have to earn our way back up like they did (while ignoring the the fact that your club benefited greatly from receiving priority picks in the past).

Now I'm not having a crack at Richmond. But for some reason whenever the Brisbane PP thread pops up supporters from your club, Melbourne & Collingwood seem to be the most vocal about how undeserving we are of one. I can certainly see why Collingwood supporters would be aggrieved about this but why the hell are supporters from the other two clubs suddenly the 'Brave defenders of the Priority Pick'? I just don't get it.

Honestly can we just debate the merits of the thread and rise above the petty bullshit?

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

looks like they will get one just depends how early hopefully not after there first pick

 

[Ron The Bear]

'This shit' was only raised due to a couple of Richmond supporters jumping on there high horse and trying to lecture Brisbane supporters about how we have to earn our way back up like they did (while ignoring the the fact that your club benefited greatly from receiving priority picks in the past).

Well if the cap fits...

Richmond supporters lived through an era where the AFL allowed us to die, hoped that we'd die. Barassi even said as much on WoS. Neville Crowe (RIP) used to count coins from the gate on a Saturday night and take them to the bank on Monday to stave off foreclosure. At least the AFL has propped your club up when it couldn't pay its way.

Not opposed whatsoever to Brisbane being given financial help with facilities etc, but having just watched GWS go from last to first in 3.5 years, I'm all out of patience with the handout mentality regarding players.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Once again we aren't asking for success we just want to be competitive.

Mate I would've killed for "competitive" in about half of the last 35 years.

At least you're low profile, you don't have people wanting you to fail and being the butt of endless jokes. You've got it comparatively easy. You had your flags, came to the end of the road and five years later the club sold the farm on a failed recruiting drive and went backwards again. Terry Wallace and Danny Frawley are still swear words among many Richmond supporters... why should your club not have to pay for the sins of the past?

It's a young team and the club's a lot better off than the early Brisbane Bears. It's been 8 years since your last finals win; Richmond went 13, then 6 and is currently 16 and counting. Be patient.

 

[Checkered]

Mate I would've killed for "competitive" in about half of the last 35 years.

At least you're low profile, you don't have people wanting you to fail and being the butt of endless jokes. You've got it comparatively easy. You had your flags, came to the end of the road and five years later the club sold the farm on a failed recruiting drive and went backwards again. Terry Wallace and Danny Frawley are still swear words among many Richmond supporters... why should your club not have to pay for the sins of the past?

It's a young team and the club's a lot better off than the early Brisbane Bears. It's been 8 years since your last finals win; Richmond went 13, then 6 and is currently 16 and counting. Be patient.

Time's not on our side though.

Club won't survive another few years of 3-4 wins.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Time's not on our side though.

Club won't survive another few years of 3-4 wins.

Then I pose the question - does it deserve to survive?

I know it's a cruel suggestion to those invested, but each day the world becomes more "user pays". And Brisbane being a relative newcomer and something of a bastard club, I don't think too many neutrals would be devastated. Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing Brisbane swallow up the Suns.

But the AFL will continue to drip-feed the club until it gets things right, for the next five years at least, and I think that's appropriate.

 

[royboys4eva]

Then I pose the question - does it deserve to survive?

I know it's a cruel suggestion to those invested, but each day the world becomes more "user pays". And Brisbane being a relative newcomer and something of a bastard club, I don't think too many neutrals would be devastated. Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing Brisbane swallow up the Suns.

But the AFL will continue to drip-feed the club until it gets things right, for the next five years at least, and I think that's appropriate.

That's nice. Fitzroy supporters we took your club from you and made you merge with Brisbane and now we have decided it's not working up there so well yeah looks like you can't support them either. Sounds fair!!

 

[BPikkers]

Lol no.

On field success won't follow if our playing list is severely lacking in talent. Even if it's all well and good off field, well still always be at a fair disadvantage when trying to attract talent.

Once again we aren't asking for success we just want to be competitive.

Classic success starved, one eyed Vic club supporter ITT

No. if you still can't stand up on your own two feet then you shouldn't be part of the comp. When is it going to stop? You won't be satisfied until the AFL compromises the comp in order to get you into finals.

You admit off field looks like it's in order. Therefore, if that's the case, it may take a couple of years but you will be a lot more competitive.

 

[BPikkers]

Players who have left each respective Northern club to return home since 2009 include: (might be wrong on a couple)

Sydney: Darren Jolly?
Brisbane: Sam Docherty, Elliot Yeo, Jared Polec, Patrick Karnezis, Billy Longer, Jack Crisp
Gold Coast: Josh Caddy, Tom Hickey, Harley Bennell, Dion Prestia, Cam McCarthy,
GWS: Dom Tyson, Jonathan O'Rourke, Tom Boyd, Lachie Plowman, Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams, Caleb Marchbank.

Jack Crisp??? Give me a break. We asked for him as steak knives in the Beams trade.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Ummm Brisbane? What about Hawthorn? We need a priority pick to get us back on track!

 

[cotter101]

Jack Crisp??? Give me a break. We asked for him as steak knives in the Beams trade.

Had already made it clear to the club he wanted to return to VIC.

 

[dlanod]

Ummm Brisbane? What about Hawthorn? We need a priority pick to get us back on track!

Create your own thread!

 

[Checkered]

No. if you still can't stand up on your own two feet then you shouldn't be part of the comp. When is it going to stop? You won't be satisfied until the AFL compromises the comp in order to get you into finals.

You admit off field looks like it's in order. Therefore, if that's the case, it may take a couple of years but you will be a lot more competitive.

By that logic most of the VFL didn't deserve to survive when it became the AFL. GCS cannibalized a fair chunk of our support and market share we didn't deserve that either.

Once again none of us are talking about finals at all. Just you guys.

 

[Tbonefreo]

Give em 2 I reckon

 

[Fatcat08]

We really should go back and retrospectively close down every club who has been struggling on and off the field and technically insolvent and reliant on the AFL/VFL backing or just good will to continue to exist.

 

[BPikkers]

We really should go back and retrospectively close down every club who has been struggling on and off the field and technically insolvent and reliant on the AFL/VFL backing or just good will to continue to exist.

So are you saying the Lions are the only club who haven't received afl support? What makes you think additional charity in the form of priority picks is going to make you a stronger and more sustainable club? You won 3 premierships in a row yet find yourselves in this situation. You can blame GC but you should have capitalised on an amazing era. The afl can help in other ways like they have over the past 12 months.

 

[dogs105]

If they finsh bottom, they should get pick 1 as a priority. Draft some good kids who will hang around with 1 and 2.