Brisbane needs help: 2016

[Inferno]

It is a reality that Brisbane/QLD is a different market compared with the likes of VIC and other AFL dominated states. Probably the most recent example I can give you is that the Lions essentially lost out to the local netball team for funding/facilities (they were given ~30mil, I think for facilities by the government). That ain't happening in VIC.

The demographics and culture of supporters is very different as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the Lions support base is essentially limited to upper-middle class types and Southern expats with little to no inroads into the middle and working class types that are the bulk of the population. Seems to be the same problems with Gold Coast, GWS and to a significantly lesser but still noticeable extent the Swans.

 

[Roylion]

With the history of player retention of late, the last thing they need is a PP

Some more well informed analysis coming up I bet. And what history of player retention would you be referring to exactly?

 

[Roylion]

it seems like the Lions support base is essentially limited to upper-middle class types and Southern expats with little to no inroads into the middle and working class types that are the bulk of the population.

And why does it seem like that? Where are you getting your demographic breakdown from?

 

[peppy la pew]

Retention issue is diminishing as currently they haven't resigned Tayor (wants too much) or I think Green (can't remember exactly).

They just don't have the talent so pp as a once off wouldn't be the end of the world.

Imagine if the pp demanded a trade though

Get the offield shit sorted first, make players WANT to play for the club

 

[JeffDunne]

It is a reality that Brisbane/QLD is a different market compared with the likes of VIC and other AFL dominated states. Probably the most recent example I can give you is that the Lions essentially lost out to the local netball team for funding/facilities (they were given ~30mil, I think for facilities by the government). That ain't happening in VIC.

It's different, sure.

But you can't be blaming anyone but yourself if you're losing out to netball.

 

[Olian]

Imagine if the pp demanded a trade though

Get the offield shit sorted first, make players WANT to play for the club

You can't make any player want to play for the club because the Tom Boyd deal showed if you offer the right coin it's hard to stop.

 

[Elixuh]

The demographics and culture of supporters is very different as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the Lions support base is essentially limited to upper-middle class types and Southern expats with little to no inroads into the middle and working class types that are the bulk of the population. Seems to be the same problems with Gold Coast, GWS and to a significantly lesser but still noticeable extent the Swans.

I honestly don't know or at least couldn't give you a definitive answer. I would say it is unlikely that that is the case though.

The supporter base is (in one way) different in the sense that you don't really have that generational supporter anywhere as much as you do down in VIC. That is where you're born into supporting the Lions and then your kids and so on.

There is much more of a bandwagoning mentality. When the Reds were winning the rugby you couldn't get a ticket to a game. Now you can't give them away. The Broncos have missed the NRL finals once in like 20+ years...but even when they have an off year or where they missed the finals a few years back support does wane a little (and they're massive up here). So you can imagine what it is like for the Lions who, apart from 2009, haven't done anything in 12 years. This year for the first time it seems as though supporters have finally given up and have stopped coming. Have had some shocking crowds. Every team will have down periods but the QLD market will never cope well with a decade+ of it.

 

[RUNVS]

It's different, sure.

But you can't be blaming anyone but yourself if you're losing out to netball.

No offence but St Kilda on the field in the last few years would be doing just as badly as Brisbane is now crowd wise if St Kilda was based in Queensland.

 

[JeffDunne]

No offence but St Kilda on the field in the last few years would be doing just as badly as Brisbane is now crowd wise if St Kilda was based in Queensland.

Debatable but late Sunday games against GWS aren't going to attract a crowd anywhere.

Besides I wasn't talking about crowds.

 

[Inferno]

And why does it seem like that? Where are you getting your demographic breakdown from?

Basing it off the similar issues that have happened in Sydney which I'm more familiar with. The Swans supporter base is largely based in the very upper-middle class North Shore, and the only place in metropolitan Sydney where AFL is on level pegging with Rugby is the Hills District which again is upper-middle class and where a lot of (most of?) the Giants support is from.

It seems like Gold Coast have taken a big contingent of expats who used to go to Lions games hence the sudden drop off in crowds post 2011 for the Lions. I would've thought that the Swans and Lions would have fairly similar demographics of support, just that Brisbane is a far smaller pond which means in comparison to the Swans they really need a broader level of support to be sustainable.

 

[cotter101]

Bombers are just as bad at the moment, but at least they put in some effort and care even if they're terrible.

Most Lions players don't want to be there. Absolutely zero team moral right now.

19+ re-signings would say otherwise.

Personally feeling the coach had to go now. As much as I love the bloke.

 

[Inferno]

I honestly don't know or at least couldn't give you a definitive answer. I would say it is unlikely that that is the case though.

The supporter base is (in one way) different in the sense that you don't really have that generational supporter anywhere as much as you do down in VIC. That is where you're born into supporting the Lions and then your kids and so on.

There is much more of a bandwagoning mentality. When the Reds were winning the rugby you couldn't get a ticket to a game. Now you can't give them away. The Broncos have missed the NRL finals once in like 20+ years...but even when they have an off year or where they missed the finals a few years back support does wane a little (and they're massive up here). So you can imagine what it is like for the Lions who, apart from 2009, haven't done anything in 12 years. This year for the first time it seems as though supporters have finally given up and have stopped coming. Have had some shocking crowds. Every team will have down periods but the QLD market will never cope well with a decade+ of it.

I get that there's major differences, but it's not like the Broncos crowds dipped when the Titans came along whereas the Lions crowds have plummeted from the instant that the Suns joined. A 10k drop off in average crowds from 2010 to 2011 can't just be because the Lions weren't great, they were bottom 4 both seasons.

There's clearly been a cannibalisation of the Lions expat support base by the Suns. Games against the larger Vic teams are still drawing ok crowds but it seems like more than half the ground are supporting the Vic team. It's the games against non-Vic teams where the attendances have struggled massively.

I also would've thought that the Lions would draw on similar demographics that the Swans do, as AFL seems to be a someone upper-middle class sport in the northern states (much like Union). Sydney has a much, much bigger upper-middle class demographic than Brisbane so naturally the Lions need a more cross-demographic support base particularly sinxe the Suns taking a big chunk of their supporter base, and going on continually low and declining crowd numbers the Lions are failing to do.

 

[Inferno]

19+ re-signings would say otherwise.

Personally feeling the coach had to go now. As much as I love the bloke.

I'm talking about on the field. So many players look either totally uninterested or overwhelmed on a weekly basis. Dons players are giving a lot more effort and getting better outcomes with a similarly skilled team under tougher conditions.

 

[hench]

19 players have re-signed with the club because they couldn't get a game anywhere else.

 

[Elixuh]

I get that there's major differences, but it's not like the Broncos crowds dipped when the Titans came along whereas the Lions crowds have plummeted from the instant that the Suns joined. A 10k drop off in average crowds from 2010 to 2011 can't just be because the Lions weren't great, they were bottom 4 both seasons.

There's clearly been a cannibalisation of the Lions expat support base by the Suns. Games against the larger Vic teams are still drawing ok crowds but it seems like more than half the ground are supporting the Vic team. It's the games against non-Vic teams where the attendances have struggled massively.

I also would've thought that the Lions would draw on similar demographics that the Swans do, as AFL seems to be a someone upper-middle class sport in the northern states (much like Union). Sydney has a much, much bigger upper-middle class demographic than Brisbane so naturally the Lions need a more cross-demographic support base particularly sinxe the Suns taking a big chunk of their supporter base, and going on continually low and declining crowd numbers the Lions are failing to do.

In 09 we played finals so the 10 season had promise (and we had Fev on board - TBH he was fun to watch and played a few cracking games). We had a 4 - 0 start which would have contributed to more memberships. In 11 it was clear we had to rebuild and major issues both on and off-field came to the fore + the GCS entered the comp which would account for some.

Not sure about the Broncos numbers when the Titans entered the comp, but it is handy that the Broncos are always playing finals and are thus always successful to an extent. The Broncos would be as close as you can get to having a generational supporter group in QLD/Brisbane and their core of 'rusted on' members/fans would be large given such a sustained period of success.

It isn't as though Lions fans have dropped off the face of the earth after 1 or 2 poor seasons. It has been a prolonged period. You even have the rusted on members/fans beginning to give up because there doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel - especially if we continue to lose players and if the AFL are content with us merely existing (as they have been the past decade).

 

[Shaneprice97]

Not a priority pick, but i would give them something like the opportunity to pluck 1 queensland kid(lived anywhere in queensland for atleast 3-4 years) a year for the next 3 years. Let them do what the 4 mini draftees could do and let them run around for the ressies as 17 year olds.

Make them keep bringing in QLD acedemy players so they didnt have to worry about homesickness, and then they play it safe with there first pick in the draft (someone like Schache who looks like he will stay long term).

I just hope they keep bringing in plenty of those acedemy players, huge part of the future.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Um, no.

If it was a genuine job on merit then it wouldn't have been included in the cap. Including it in the cap was an admission.

Nobody with any sense would accept it was a job on merit.

Wow - are you misinformed.

Scully's dad was employed by the swans as a part time scout. They were more than happy with his performance but weren't in a position to increase his role, responsibilities or salary. When we entered the competition we were in need of a scout that was more than just part time so we hired Phil Scully - a candidate with a proven track record in the position and who came highly recommended by his former employer. Nobody with any sense or knowledge of the situation would argue any other way.

The VFL numpties then got their knickers in a twist over it because we also picked up his son as an uncontracted player and conspiracy theorists jumped out of their closet, donned their tin foil hats and yelled loudly and longly. The AFL then decided to placate the numpties and conspiracy nut jobs and include his salary in our cap - and despite the idiot who posted it earlier it's nowhere near $500k. He got a salary bump from the swans because he was doing more than what he was at the swans, but the salary is in line with what other scouts get paid by other clubs.

Us accepting it has nothing to do with any kind of admission. And for this to be raised as some sort of accusation of cheating is just beyond ridiculous.

But thanks for derailing a thread about Brisbane and the terrible state they've found themselves in.

I think the smartest thing Brisbane has done recently is to get the Lamberts back from us. No secret that they were responsible for helping to build our culture and get a lot of the kids to re-sign with us. I think it's already paying dividends up north with quite a few signatures appearing on contracts.

Now all they need to do is get a coach and an administration. That might help.

 

[Freomaniac]

Bump.

Thread was started 2 years ago. They need it more now than they did then

good call. 2 years ago... I didnt think it was bad. Now they really need help

 

[Balony_pony16]

Not a priority pick, but i would give them something like the opportunity to pluck 1 queensland kid(lived anywhere in queensland for atleast 3-4 years) a year for the next 3 years. Let them do what the 4 mini draftees could do and let them run around for the ressies as 17 year olds.

Make them keep bringing in QLD acedemy players so they didnt have to worry about homesickness, and then they play it safe with there first pick in the draft (someone like Schache who looks like he will stay long term).

I just hope they keep bringing in plenty of those acedemy players, huge part of the future.

Curious were you happy when the pies got their PP?

 

[Balony_pony16]

As a Lions fan I think under the current climate the Lions are doomed. Ditching your club for greener pastures is the norm whether it be free agent or rookies seeking change. Either way the lions are screwed as combating either of these is futile. Doesn't matter really... the AFL will continued to pretend an existence just enough to warrant big TV rights, whilst giving the BIG clubs (mainly Vic clubs) first priority in commercial draws to suit the Vic dominance agenda

 

[Balony_pony16]

Retention issue is diminishing as currently they haven't resigned Tayor (wants too much) or I think Green (can't remember exactly).

They just don't have the talent so pp as a once off wouldn't be the end of the world.

pretty much.... any club that loses a draftee in the first few years is going to take a loss. That is the problem. ATM the lions are drafting their next gen from the 2nd rounds and are still hopeful they can keep them. The system is just suited to footy states

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

pretty much.... any club that loses a draftee in the first few years is going to take a loss. That is the problem. ATM the lions are drafting their next gen from the 2nd rounds and are still hopeful they can keep them. The system is just suited to footy states

As I said above, I think the Lamberts will be the unsung heroes in player retention. They certainly were with us. They do an absolutely brilliant job with the young kids fresh out and a long way from home. If you guys can keep players it will go a long way to arresting the slide as they build and grow together.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Curious were you happy when the pies got their PP?

Im not saying they dont deserve one, i was just giving my alternate.

I just dont buy into the "priority pick fixes all" game, i think a system where the lions can pluck non acedemy queenslanders for nothing for a couple of years would work better.

 

[pinot]

they already getting help - an academy and high draft picks over the past 5 years, their coach is a goose and Carlton shows what a good coach can do.

 

[JackoSpades]

As a Victorian living in Qld, I would have to say AFL is not very popular. I find it extremely hard to find anyone to talk to about AFL.
I think one of the biggest issues is TV rights.
How do you grow a games popularity when the only games shown on tv are Brisbane and gold coast. You need to make the sport popular first then the local teams will pick up that popularity. Ex pats from the footy states kids don't get to see football up here because their parents don't watch it as their teams are not playing. The kids at school then don't discuss it or play it. The young draftees cant wait to get back to a footy State. The best games need to be shown on tv to allow people to enjoy the sport pick a team and start following AFL. At the moment the AFL is just throwing money down the drain, giving Brisbane priority picks or extra cash to hold onto players will not help the sport in QLD!