Moved Thread Buddy or Ablett Snr?

[Falcon3518]

It will evolve to another level entirely and that will be solely due to the continual progression of athletic performance. Players will be stronger and bigger in 25 years time.

And did you ever see Wallace's Bulldogs in the early 00's?
That was when the evolution of defensive structures took a new turn (for the worse). Not Clarkson's cluster.

Yes 100%, this is why I don’t like when people think players of the past will be GOATs forever. You are the first cats supporter I’ve come across that thinks this.


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[STPer18]

Ablett.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yes 100%, this is why I don’t like when people think players of the past will be GOATs forever. You are the first cats supporter I’ve come across that thinks this.


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Still haven't seen a player with the combination of speed, strength, accurate 60m+ kick left or right, and ridiculous aerial ability of Ablett Snr.

Buddy for instance doesn't hold a candle in a contested marking situation, and only has a right leg for balance.

No comparison sorry.

 

[Syd]

Home and Away, Buddy
Finals, Ablett Sr

Just my $0.02

 

[My Tilly]

Home and Away, Buddy
Finals, Ablett Sr

Just my $0.02

Franklin's been pretty good in finals though.
Has a 2.9 goal average and his marks/disposals have barely dropped which illustrates his consistency across all 25 matches played.
He was excellent in the 2012 & 2014 grand finals.

 

[Chinacats]

No it was 6. The 4 GF series and 91 and 96.

91: 1 x EF 0 goals

96: 1 x QF 1 goal

See even you forgot these 2 finals series, I wouldn’t blame you they are both crap. 91 was still in his prime to lol. As you can see I’m not trolling at all, GAS fans just don’t like hearing it.


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91 he came back from retirement, so wasn’t really in his prime.

 

[Lethality]

Buddy.

He's played mostly as a half forward type, and even now he isn't strictly a Full-Forward. And it's in the era with the lowest scoring since the 60s, and more emphasis on team offence.

Ablett on the other hand, was one of three full-forwards in his era who would regularly kick tons.

 

[sonofafrank]

Still haven't seen a player with the combination of speed, strength, accurate 60m+ kick left or right, and ridiculous aerial ability of Ablett Snr.

Buddy for instance doesn't hold a candle in a contested marking situation, and only has a right leg for balance.

No comparison sorry.

Ablett was never overly quick & certainly not near the speed of Franklin

 

[sonofafrank]

Buddy.

He's played mostly as a half forward type, and even now he isn't strictly a Full-Forward. And it's in the era with the lowest scoring since the 60s, and more emphasis on team offence.

Ablett on the other hand, was one of three full-forwards in his era who would regularly kick tons.

Yet buddy still plays as a main forward. Buddy in a contested mark is hopeless, his athletic athletic abilities hight and speed makes him a freak player and near impossible to match up on

Ablett was neither quick or tall

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yet buddy still plays as a main forward. Buddy in a contested mark is hopeless, his athletic athletic abilities hight and speed makes him a freak player and near impossible to match up on

Ablett was neither quick or tall

When he wanted to be Ablett was very quick over the ground, enough to be hard to catch on the lead or steaming through the middle.

And he didn't need to be tall, he outmarked anyone defending him with sheer power. I hope you're not trying to say Ablett was an easy matchup...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Doesn't help with these sort of polls that the retired player tends to be remembered with rose tinted glasses. A lot of people have only seen the highlights of Ablett so they only have the highlights to go on and the people that did see him over time forget his flaws as a player.

Ablett didn't have any flaws.

I cant believe this is a serious poll question btw.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yet buddy still plays as a main forward. Buddy in a contested mark is hopeless, his athletic athletic abilities hight and speed makes him a freak player and near impossible to match up on

Ablett was neither quick or tall

Ablett wasn't quick? I'm not sure you've seen him play.

 

[Cyclops]

Franklin was and is a tremendous champion, skilled kick, decent matk, amazing one on one competitor, no problem irising in big games.

I saw him nearly defeat Collingwood in the 2011 finals playing on Chris Tarrant

Chris Tarrant

Age

43

Ht

193cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

0.6

1star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.8

4star

in white hot form. Franklin performsd second and third efforts to get through defence from two or three excellent opponents to relentlessly score (if you recall we had the best defence in that era): they did not lose because of him and on so many other occasions he would kick the winning margin against us.
rrSuperb (possibly underrated) hands on the lead and lethal on the deck, hard worker and could play injured.
Truly brilliant.

Hes not worthy to lace Ablett snrs boots. Joke thread.

 

[uranium_death]

Y

Ablett was never overly quick & certainly not near the speed of Franklin

If you think Ablett wasn't quick, you didn't see him play...
If you did, you probably saw him after he hit 33 and already past his prime (when he went to FF, he was already past his physical best IMO)

Franklin has better endurance. Ablett was a sprinter. Ran hard and hit hard. A burst player who is the most spectacular player I ever had the pleasure of watching

Franklin is a product of the modern game, and is one of the greats of the modern era.
Even relative to other full forwards, Ablett was undersized but was a better overhead mark than Franklin, and a better kick

Franklin is a better team player - a product of his era.

I'm naturally biased, so my opinion means crap, but Ablett is my favourite player of all time.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

How was Buddy's much vaunted finals performance in 2022?

I remember his own supporters giving him a bronx cheer at the G on the biggest stage.

 

[Cursed Cat]

How was Buddy's much vaunted finals performance in 2022?

I remember his own supporters giving him a bronx cheer at the G on the biggest stage.

Not only was his performance lacklustre, his ‘one more year’ announcement screamed memememe. Contrast this with Joel Selwood’s decision not to announce his imminent retirement prior to the GF; focused and team-oriented.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Cool article, not sure I agree with the formula but it’s an interesting way of comparing different eras.

Regardless, Buddy was an absolute freak. I only caught the tail end of Gablett Sr but they were the best years of his career. I think Buddy is on par with Gablett Sr.

The best years of Ablett's career weren't the back end.

His best years were on the wing/HF.

 

[Partridge]

both amazing players but very different roles

GAS was a midget based on the role as FF and probably explains why he played wing, midfield and HFF until moving to FF late in his career. He was brilliant overhead and there was very little he couldn't do on the park. He weak point was discipline and consistency.
(malcom blight would be a better comparison to GAS than buddy).

This is the common misconception. I'd say slightly true until 1989, but after Blight arrived his consistency was unbelievable.

Don't believe me? I wouldn't either:

Before Blight arrived (so 1984-1988 inclusive plus his 6 senior games for Hawthorn), he kicked 324 goals from 94 games - as a winger and half forward flanker. Then Blight arrived:

1989: 87 goals in 23 games
1990: 75 goals in 17 games
1991: 28 goals in 12 games (pre-season retirement, came back half fit)
1992: 72 goals in 21 games

Then he moved to full-forward...

1993: 124 goals in 17 games
1994: 129 goals in 25 games
1995: 122 goals in 22 games
1996: 69 goals in 17 games

The truth is before Blight he would have a few games a year where he'd have a total shocker - wouldn't get near it, no impact, you name it (even then, nowhere near as many as some claim). Once Blight arrived those games dropped to maybe 1-2 a season. I'd kill to have that kind of inconsistency.

 

[uranium_death]

GAS was a midget based on the role as FF and probably explains why he played wing, midfield and HFF until moving to FF late in his career. He was brilliant overhead and there was very little he couldn't do on the park. He weak point was discipline and consistency.
(malcom blight would be a better comparison to GAS than buddy).

Jason Dunstall was 188cm. 3cm more, but Dunstall is one of the greats. Not a midget. Ablett at 185 played tall.

Ablett's all-round athleticism was amazing. Had he played a career at full forward, he'd have held the goalkicking record, and there wouldn't even be an argument

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

And he would have 400 less if he played against team defences instead of 1v1.


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...and he'd have 1,400 more if he played Richmond more often.

 

[Falcon3518]

...and he'd have 1,400 more if he played Richmond more often.

Yep, he’s a flat track bully. Against the good teams he’s trash. Why do you think he never won a flag? Biggest choker in the history of the game.


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[uranium_death]

Yep, he’s a flat track bully. Against the good teams he’s trash. Why do you think he never won a flag? Biggest choker in the history of the game.


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Another Richmond supporter upholding the stereotype. Well done

 

[My Tilly]

Insulting.

Franklin's arguably the best player of his generation whereas Ablett is arguably top three all time.

 

[Falcon3518]

Insulting.

Franklin's arguably the best player of his generation whereas Ablett is arguably top three all time.

Buddy is more consistent and better in finals. I’d rather take his career but I’d have to say peak GAS in H&A is better. It’s not insulting to compare though. He’s kicked more goals in a harder era to kick them, that makes him at least in the convo.


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[My Tilly]

Buddy is more consistent and better in finals. I’d rather take his career but I’d have to say peak GAS in H&A is better. It’s not insulting to compare though. He’s kicked more goals in a harder era to kick them, that makes him at least in the convo.

You are focusing on Ablett's final two seasons where he was virtually a no show in the finals. He was excellent against Richmond in the 1995 prelim. Tweaked his hamstring in the third and sat on the bench in the fourth quarter. Terrible the following week in the grand final.
And again, really should not have been playing in the last month of his career in 1996 as he was all but cooked. He was a consistent finals performer as his statistical averages show.
Only reason why Franklin's kicked more goals is simply due to the fact the game is not as physical and you play until your late 30's.

Averaged 5.8 marks & 4.1 goals during the home & away.
Averaged 5.5 marks & 4 goals in the finals.
(Less 2 disposals per game in finals)

Franklin
Averaging 5.5 marks & 3.1 goals during the home & away.
Averaging 5.2 marks & 2.6 goals in the finals.
(Less 1 disposal per game in finals)

Franklin was fortunate to play in one of the best teams of the modern era. Shame he didn't stick around to enjoy two more flags but to have the opportunity to start playing in finals at the age of 20 compared to Ablett, who was 28 by the time he even starting playing finals footy.