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Carlton: A failure to adapt?

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Jade

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Jul 8, 2008
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"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives.

It is the one that is most adaptable to change."

- Charles Darwin

A decade ago, in 2007, Carlton trailed only the Pies (and not by much) from the traditional Victorian clubs in membership figures. They enter 2017 ranked sixth in a ten team market in this regard.

Fifteen years ago, Carlton were the only Victorian club in existence that had yet to claim a wooden spoon; an incredibly impressive feat considering they were a foundation club. Entering 2017 they have now claimed four, and are favourite or second favourite to claim a fifth.

On field and off, Carlton have regressed significantly in comparison to their peers, so the simple question is this;

What has happened to the Carlton Football Club?

On field or off, the cause of this malaise seems common, and it seems clear; a succession of senior administrations has refused to adapt to a changing industry and has been left behind.

In isolation, it can be difficult to recognise.

Carlton's well known salary cap indiscretions came at a time when an ageing list was transitioning out of the club - thus the accompanying penalties came at a time when the Blues most needed to replenish through the draft. The inability to replenish on an equal footing with the rest of the league hurt - but this to me has been an all too easy excuse to point to. Yes, those sanctions hurt, but at the same time they seem to plaster over the very significant cracks in decision making not a football level, but at an administrative level.

It's only when you start to compare them to their peers that you start to see a pattern of poor decision making, across consecutive administrations.

A couple of notable examples:

- Planning for what would be announced as Docklands Stadium (now Etihad) was well underway when Carlton committed to an $8.5m redevelopment of Princes Park. The resulting stand was only used for eight years before being effectively rendered redundant when the venue ceased to be used as an AFL venue.

- A failure to realise that support needed to be cultivated outside of the traditional club corridors. Think Hawthorn and North Melbourne with Tasmania, The Dogs with Ballarat and North Australia, St Kilda and it's efforts in New Zealand. Carlton have failed to spearhead any significant expansion projects - it's best effort a short lived sponsorship arrangement with Tourism Malaysia.

So what do you think?

Has Carlton failed to adapt to a changing industry? If so, is this a legacy issue due to it's long history of success?

Have the Blues adequately acted to grow its supporter base and sponsorship?

What has caused the generational decline of the Blues?
 
The Princes Park thing is overstated, yes it came at a bad time but strong clubs can wear that kind of loss and Carlton should have been able to.

I agree - that decision in isolation means little IMO. To me, it was an indicator of the type of thinking occurring at Carlton - not listening to the rest of the industry.

The main problem comes down mainly
1) the culture damage caused from the salary cap scandal

I think if cultural damage has occurred, it could have been prevented. There is no indication of cultural damage at the Crows, for example.

2) general hubris prior to the cap scandal

Agreed, however it would be hypocritical of me not to point out that my own club was just as bad at this.
 

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I agree - that decision in isolation means little IMO. To me, it was an indicator of the type of thinking occurring at Carlton - not listening to the rest of the industry.

I think at some point Carlton just started thinking their shit didn't stink. I"m not sure when exactly (70s or 80s?) but it seems to have had a lasting effect until this day. Your right in that it was just another example of Carlton thinking they knew better when they didn't.
 
I disagree that you should blame them for not seeking out an overseas or interstate base. Carlton still have a very large supporter base in Melbourne and their membership figures should be much higher. Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon don't feel the need to sell games or just play interstate, the last time either did it was Richmond with Cairns (which was a blatant cash grab and wasn't any long term effort to develop a base somewhere else).

The real issue was Malthouse; if they had have stuck with Ratten they would be in a much better position by now.
 
The old Carlton died with Mick Malthouse, they are on the right track now I think. The issue is, they are still feeling the decisions of the old Carlton - Dale Thomas for example.

They need to stick to their current course, the old Carlton would've tried to buy their way out this with some foolish appointments. It won't happen over night, but they will recover. Having said that, I'm not sure they will ever reach their halcyon days of the 70's/80's again - the AFL landscape has changed too much.
 
I disagree that you should blame them for not seeking out an overseas or interstate base. Carlton still have a very large supporter base in Melbourne and their membership figures should be much higher. Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon don't feel the need to sell games or just play interstate, the last time either did it was Richmond with Cairns (which was a blatant cash grab and wasn't any long term effort to develop a base somewhere else).

The real issue was Malthouse; if they had have stuck with Ratten they would be in a much better position by now.

Doesn't have to be interstate. It's more about actively seeking to develop new opportunities outside of your existing pipeline.

For example, there is a really interesting study done on the Richmond Football Club and it's decision to move from Craigeburn out to the East of Melbourne - really showed some smarts in what they were doing.
 

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A lack of strategic vision, impatience, and a search for quick fix solutions are the main cause of Carlton's problems. The two worst teams this century have been ourselves and Carlton, and both clubs shared similar traits in that regard. It's no coincidence that both clubs have burnt a lot of high draft picks through poor development and foisting messiah status on teenagers.
 
A lack of strategic vision, impatience, and a search for quick fix solutions are the main cause of Carlton's problems. The two worst teams this century have been ourselves and Carlton, and both clubs shared similar traits in that regard. It's no coincidence that both clubs have burnt a lot of high draft picks through poor development and foisting messiah status on teenagers.
We are nowhere near comparable to Melbourne
 
Yeah great thread to make after we've done everything completely different since Bolts took over.

Maybe you should ask this question about Essendon, after all it's been 16 years now since a finals win.....

Still have Trigg and just hired Judd again didn't ya?

Hopefully good days for you lot none the less
 
The old Carlton died with Mick Malthouse, they are on the right track now I think. The issue is, they are still feeling the decisions of the old Carlton - Dale Thomas for example.

They need to stick to their current course, the old Carlton would've tried to buy their way out this with some foolish appointments. It won't happen over night, but they will recover. Having said that, I'm not sure they will ever reach their halcyon days of the 70's/80's again - the AFL landscape has changed too much.

I'm really not too sure TBH.

They are still holding on to Jeanne Pratt, for example. Liogudice was an insular appointment if I've ever seen one, and appointing Judd as both a Director and a footy director? Madness.
 
Yeah great thread to make after we've done everything completely different since Bolts took over.

Maybe you should ask this question about Essendon, after all it's been 16 years now since a finals win.....

Believe me, I have.

You'll find a heap of commentary from me that questions the decision making of Essendon, from the late 90s right up to 2014 or so.
 

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Carlton have traditionally bought their way out of trouble - that is no longer an option.

Trading out their entire forward line affects on field performance which affects memberships. Most clubs dip in membership tallies during tough on field times.
 
Believe me, I have.

You'll find a heap of commentary from me that questions the decision making of Essendon, from the late 90s right up to 2014 or so.
That's fine.

The timing of this thread is just odd to me. Probably the most optimistic I've been ever about this club because we're not trying to take shortcuts anymore. That ended with Malthouse.
 
Carlton have traditionally bought their way out of trouble - that is no longer an option.

Trading out their entire forward line affects on field performance which affects memberships. Most clubs dip in membership tallies during tough on field times.

Indeed, which is why I was careful to not blame the supporter base for the issues.
 
They were always the last to adapt, they never liked the draft, they were always the big spenders and lured players to the club with the big cheque book. That was the Elliot way, the nail in the coffin was the loss of Princes Park as a venue. Carlton were the big team from the 1960's through to the 90's and players didn't leave either. They are not the destination club they once were...It's amazing to me that both the Dogs and Saints who were competing in Preliminary and Grand Finals from 2008 - 2010 fell away for a short time, but have bounced back far greater than Carlton who still stink up the bottom end of the table.
 
They were always the last to adapt, they never liked the draft, they were always the big spenders and lured players to the club with the big cheque book. That was the Elliot way, the nail in the coffin was the loss of Princes Park as a venue. Carlton were the big team from the 1960's through to the 90's and players didn't leave either. They are not the destination club they once were...It's amazing to me that both the Dogs and Saints who were competing in Preliminary and Grand Finals from 2008 - 2010 fell away for a short time, but have bounced back far greater than Carlton who still stink up the bottom end of the table.

I think that St Kilda, the Dogs, and even Melbourne now I would say work from a position of needing to be smarter, not bigger than their competitors.

I think fans of all three clubs should feel reasonably pleased with the direction of their respective clubs.

(And Doggies fans drop the most sarcastic 'well duh' of all time as they spit polish the cup...)
 
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