Carlton's list

[HARKER]

How many flags did Judd get them?

How many will Ablett get you? Silly question.

 

[teknodeejay]

I think Carlton could get worse before they get better. I'm fine with Malthouse being in charge. There's a host of players who I don't think are lending anything toward a top 4 gambit unless they significantly get better. I'll err on the side of reasonable the additions of Everitt, Thomas and Docherty in that all three at least seem to have reasonable to good attitude and skill. There's top level talent in Gibbs, Murphy, probably Simpson and arguable enough for Yarran to be included. Curnow has proven himself as a solid go to stopper pre-injury this season. Menzel seems genuine. Buckley looks reasonable.

Casboult is a bit enigmatic and I think as a second KPF he can go well. But he doesn't have a good permanent forward to play second fiddle to.

There are players still being called upon each week who should have their careers at Carlton iced or only get a game through injury of preferred selection. These include McLean and Carrazzo. Waite can go into this mix now too it seems. Judd is out of there at the end of this year or next. You can also argue that Walker and Tuohy are getting games not because of their display of effort or ability but because they have no competition for place. That's an indictment.

Then you've got a group of - in my few - sub par players who don't have a defined role for picking them and don't possess a high enough skill base to be picked on merit. Ellard, Cachia, Watson, Lucas, White, Armfield, McInnes and now it seems Garlett. These guys may give it their all but it's a sad place when these are the ones who you'd have hoped would add depth but in reality only become a name to pad numbers out on a sheet. They do some good things sometimes, but their deficiencies get exposed a lot more.

So that leaves a whole bunch of "unknowns" and great hopes. Bell, Holman, Cripps, Graham, Reynolds, Giles.

The horizon seems bleak unless we get a surprisingly good harvest all at once of those above mentioned names. Otherwise, there's some more pain to be had.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I think Carlton could get worse before they get better. I'm fine with Malthouse being in charge. There's a host of players who I don't think are lending anything toward a top 4 gambit unless they significantly get better. I'll err on the side of reasonable the additions of Everitt, Thomas and Docherty in that all three at least seem to have reasonable to good attitude and skill. There's top level talent in Gibbs, Murphy, probably Simpson and arguable enough for Yarran to be included. Curnow has proven himself as a solid go to stopper pre-injury this season. Menzel seems genuine. Buckley looks reasonable.

Casboult is a bit enigmatic and I think as a second KPF he can go well. But he doesn't have a good permanent forward to play second fiddle to.

There are players still being called upon each week who should have their careers at Carlton iced or only get a game through injury of preferred selection. These include McLean and Carrazzo. Waite can go into this mix now too it seems. Judd is out of there at the end of this year or next. You can also argue that Walker and Tuohy are getting games not because of their display of effort or ability but because they have no competition for place. That's an indictment.

Then you've got a group of - in my few - sub par players who don't have a defined role for picking them and don't possess a high enough skill base to be picked on merit. Ellard, Cachia, Watson, Lucas, White, Armfield, McInnes and now it seems Garlett. These guys may give it their all but it's a sad place when these are the ones who you'd have hoped would add depth but in reality only become a name to pad numbers out on a sheet. They do some good things sometimes, but their deficiencies get exposed a lot more.

So that leaves a whole bunch of "unknowns" and great hopes. Bell, Holman, Cripps, Graham, Reynolds, Giles.

The horizon seems bleak unless we get a surprisingly good harvest all at once of those above mentioned names. Otherwise, there's some more pain to be had.

good post and pretty accurate assessment of our list

except I would add kreuzer will be huge return for us next year we want lose to much in the tap (warnock only strength) but will gain plenty around the ground

plus I suspect henderson (our best KPP) has played injured all year ... if he can settle @ CHB this will give us a much better structure

 

[doppleganger]

And every right to feel so, by far and large.

Problem was that we didn't trade to advantage and handed out contracts to the likes of Joseph, Collins, Davies etc.
We effectively tied our own hands for two years rendering ourselves non-players in the off-season in 2011 and 2012.

2013 comes along and we had to move on 11 players, some that were stubbornly held onto through the previous regime.

Ross Lyon was criticized for sitting on his stock and not turning it over. How can Ratten then not be?

Lyon was critized for not giving games to any younger players, instead preferring senior B graders to fill spots.

Ratten was giving games to young blokes all the way through.

Carlton opted to give rookie contracts to guys like Collins, Cachia under MM, stubbornly being held onto?

Problem with Carlton is that the young guys who were developing really well under Ratten in 2010-11 haven't been able to continue to improve.

 

[HARKER]

Lyon was critized for not giving games to any younger players, instead preferring senior B graders to fill spots.

Ratten was giving games to young blokes all the way through.

Carlton opted to give rookie contracts to guys like Collins, Cachia under MM, stubbornly being held onto?

Problem with Carlton is that the young guys who were developing really well under Ratten in 2010-11 haven't been able to continue to improve.

Ratten was not giving kids a go under his own steam.
We were so depleted that we had no option but to introduce Bell, Casboult, McInnes etc. and then he was surprised just how well they did.
The development that was going on at our VFL side was deplorable............I know...........I saw it.

Malthouse had nothing to do with Collins. We threw him onto our rookie list in his last year of contract.
Cachia was brought back last year and performed well in his 14 games.........Not well enough to hold his spot but well nevertheless.

Problem was that we had no development strategies in the VFL through Rattens tenure.
The Northern Blues team isn't performing particularly well this year but the strategies and supports systems are evident.
The kids want to play as Johnson was given his first game last week with Holman and Sheehan likely to be used before years end.

 

[doppleganger]

Ratten was not giving kids a go under his own steam.
We were so depleted that we had no option but to introduce Bell, Casboult, McInnes etc. and then he was surprised just how well they did.
The development that was going on at our VFL side was deplorable............I know...........I saw it.

So it is Ratten's fault that the club hadn't invested properly in setting up the VFL side?!

 

[HARKER]

So it is Ratten's fault that the club hadn't invested properly in setting up the VFL side?!

Ratten had a gun to his head from the get go.
Not a particularly enjoyable environment to work under.
He tried to do too much and by not allocating he alienated some and it come back to bite him.

As I've said, Ratten did plenty of things wrong but he didn't hire himself.
That blame has to be apportioned elsewhere but that's unlikely to happen at the proud CFC.

 

[Monkey King]

I wasn't being critical of Casboult, it was about the fact he was singled out as a player who has developed under MM ...

Yeah nah. Levi was included by a Carlton poster on a list of nine current players that Carlton could potentially build a successful team around. An opposition poster singled him out for criticism and shortly thereafter you chimed in with some sarcasm about him being an elite CHF, a baffling reference to something I said of him back in 2012, before claiming that "Casboult is another who hasn't developed, he is the same player as he was in 2012." Just more typical pot shotting from you.

 

[thetradesman]

Yeah nah. Levi was included by a Carlton poster on a list of nine current players that Carlton could potentially build a successful team around. An opposition poster singled him out for criticism and shortly thereafter you chimed in with some sarcasm about him being an elite CHF, a baffling reference to something I said of him back in 2012, before claiming that "Casboult is another who hasn't developed, he is the same player as he was in 2012." Just more typical pot shotting from you.

Your not going to build a list around him dude!

One of your posters said if he turns out like Leigh brown he has done well, would you build a list around Brown when he was playing.

 

[thetradesman]

And I did single him out because of a statement which I found completely bias, there is a lot of duds at Carlton.

 

[doppleganger]

Ratten had a gun to his head from the get go.
Not a particularly enjoyable environment to work under.
He tried to do too much and by not allocating he alienated some and it come back to bite him.

As I've said, Ratten did plenty of things wrong but he didn't hire himself.
That blame has to be apportioned elsewhere but that's unlikely to happen at the proud CFC.

Did he have the resources available to actually allocate responsibility to others?

If you don't have a paid VFL coach, how the feck is that Ratten's problem?

 

[thetradesman]

Alright I'm bored and I've decided to analyse the blues list.

A graders or potential A graders
Murphy
Gibbs
Henderson
Menzel

B+ or potential B+
Simpson
Walker
Yarran

B graders or potential B graders
Jamison
Docherty
Carrazzo
Buckley

C+ or potential C+
Tuohy
Robinson
McLean
Rowe

Others
The rest of the list really

 

[HARKER]

Alright I'm bored and I've decided to analyse the blues list.

A graders or potential A graders
Murphy
Gibbs
Henderson
Menzel

B+ or potential B+
Simpson
Walker
Yarran

B graders or potential B graders
Jamison
Docherty
Carrazzo
Buckley

C+ or potential C+
Tuohy
Robinson
McLean
Rowe

Others
The rest of the list really

You mean you're boring.


Tell us about :
Cripps...Giles.....Holman....Graham
..Johnson...Sheehan....Byrne.


Thomas Kreuzer Judd can't play?

Ok.

 

[thetradesman]

You mean you're boring.


Tell us about :
Cripps...Giles.....Holman....Graham
..Johnson...Sheehan....Byrne.


Thomas Kreuzer Judd can't play?

Ok.

Oops Cripps was suppose to be in there, Thomas is average at best, Judd has one year left and Kruezer is that overrated it's not funny.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Oops Cripps was suppose to be in there, Thomas is average at best, Judd has one year left and Kruezer is that overrated it's not funny.

he's certainly no hampson that's for sure

 

[thetradesman]

he's certainly no hampson that's for sure

Dumb post.

 

[etsal1]

Dumb post.

or a dumb club for handing over a second rd pick for him.

 

[Monkey King]

Your not going to build a list around him dude!

He is among a core of existing Carlton players around whom a list could be build that may offer more success. If you're looking for a Wayne Carey type "build a list around him" player then yes, that's not him; but of course no one was ever suggesting that he was, so the comment is kinda redundant before you even set sail. In fact, I don't think Carlton have even one of these players. But in the context of this thread, it is well worth looking at which player groupings may or may not have a role to play in the future of the team.

 

[Monkey King]

Oops Cripps was suppose to be in there, Thomas is average at best, Judd has one year left and Kruezer is that overrated it's not funny.

At his best ... I'd say Thomas is a star of the comp. The only question is whether he can get back to it with more footy under his belt.

As for your list assessment, I wouldn't mind seeing you do one for Richmond, just to assess the evenness of your brush strokes so to speak.

 

[etsal1]

At his best ... I'd say Thomas is a star of the comp. The only question is whether he can get back to it with more footy under his belt.

As for your list assessment, I wouldn't mind seeing you do one for Richmond, just to assess the evenness of your brush strokes so to speak.

It should be pretty similar to ours given the only thing that separates us is %. However, from his arrogance you wouldn't know it.

 

[thetradesman]

So you want me to do a list assessment of Richmond on a Carlton thread?

 

[thetradesman]

or a dumb club for handing over a second rd pick for him.

Another dumb post.

 

[etsal1]

Another dumb post.

yeh, nah.

 

[Fadge]

How many will Ablett get you? Silly question.

Why is it a silly question?

I suggest Ablett is more chance of playing in a flag at Gold Coast than Judd was ever going to be at Carlton.

Gold Coast front loaded his contract to pay him squillions when he was playing with a list chock full of 18 year old kids. Nothing wrong with managing your list in that manner.

Fair to say Gold Coast are shaping as legitimate Premiership contenders as early as 2015; something we could never say during Judd's time at Carlton.

 

[Fadge]

You mean you're boring.
Tell us about :
Cripps...Giles.....Holman....Graham
..Johnson...Sheehan....Byrne.

What can anyone possibly tell you about these 7 players?

They've played what 3 1/2 games between them?