Carlton's list

[pinot]

No, it means he has a healthy bank account and the footballing fraternity p!sses themselves laughing at how stupid Carlton were...

you make it sound like it is something new.

 

[Fadge]

Success can take many forms.

Of course it can, just like the Judd trade being a success despite the Carlton Football Club being in exactly the same dire position at the end of his tenure as they were at the start of it without contending for a Premiership in between?

 

[pinot]

Playing with form and confidence

Murphy + Gibbs + Simpson + Judd + Henderson are A graders

B Graders

Jamison
Warnock
Daisy
Yarran
Carrazzo
Waite
Robinson

Good Youngsters
Menzel
Docherty
Cripps
Graham

The rest not sure if C or D-Z grade

so out of 42 players on the list I would keep 16 and 25% of the 16 are 30 y.o

Whoever thinks this list is good enough is delusional when was the last time we played in a preliminary final? This list just sucks.

 

[carl m]

you make it sound like it is something new.

No it's not new, Carlton have been forking out good money for duds like him for ages

 

[pinot]

No it's not new, Carlton have been forking out good money for duds like him for ages

Oh is that what you mean... well some work some don't and I can live with that. Rice, Spalding, Hogg, Clape, Madden, Manton were spuds from other clubs and turned them into premiership players (30% of grand final team)

 

[Monkey King]

Of course it can, just like the Judd trade being a success despite the Carlton Football Club being in exactly the same dire position at the end of his tenure as they were at the start of it without contending for a Premiership in between?

Hmm ... makes me think you didn't watch much of Carlton between 2002-07.

But aside from that obvious mistake, it needs to be pointed out that Judd has yet to reach the end of his tenure.

But yes, Judd's recruitment was a success. You don't recruit a single player to win you a flag. That is stupid. So it's equally stupid to assess a recruits success on the winning of flag. No. Judd's recruitment was one thread in a web of decisions made over a number of years. Some, such as his, were a success, others weren't.

 

[Fadge]

Hmm ... makes me think you didn't watch much of Carlton between 2002-07.

But aside from that obvious mistake, it needs to be pointed out that Judd has yet to reach the end of his tenure.

So in your alternative world, Carlton can still contend in the Judd era and they are also in a lot better state as a football club than they were before he joined them.

Carry on then...

 

[Monkey King]

So in your alternative world, Carlton can still contend in the Judd era and they are also in a lot better state as a football club than they were before he joined them.

Carry on then...

In my alternative world - otherwise known as the real world - Judd's career is not over. Making any comments that Carlton are in whatever position at the end of Judd's tenure is, at this point, purely imaginary projection.

 

[dickballsack]

2seasons ago the president kernahan stood in front of the press unveiling their new coach malthouse. She questioned about ratts's good recent record of getting the team to the finals he stated that the club and the board felt that they had the list to win a flag so they wanted to get a coach that would fulfilled he lists potential. Pre season, malthouse states that he believes the talent is there and that with a new defensive mindset he'll bring they can finish top 4 and anything can happen from there (he even references his premiership clock to say that the blues are at around 10-11. They miss the finals (after rats gets them to 4 out of the last 5 finals series). Post season mick states that they clearly need outside run and they will address that. Halfway through the next season mick says that the list needs an overhaul, now we come to the present and he's saying that the list needs a rebuild.......

 

[Fadge]

In my alternative world - otherwise known as the real world - Judd's career is not over. Making any comments that Carlton are in whatever position at the end of Judd's tenure is, at this point, purely imaginary projection.

You certainly are a glass half full fellow MK, good on you.

 

[Doss]

How is it even in question that Carlton in a better state now than 2007?

Yes, they're struggling on-field and may well in the immediate years ahead, but in off-field terms they are far ahead of where they were in 2007. They were flat broke at the time.

Is that just down to Judd? No, of course not. Despite how Judd's acquisition was dressed up, it seems pretty obvious that it was as much about putting themselves back on the map. In that, it has not been a failure at all. At least they're now in a much more solid off-field position- a position from where, if they play their cards right, they can properly rebuild as an on-field force.

 

[Fadge]

How is it even in question that Carlton in a better state now than 2007?

Yes, they're struggling on-field and may well in the immediate years ahead, but in off-field terms they are far ahead of where they were in 2007. They were flat broke at the time.

Is that just down to Judd? No, of course not. Despite how Judd's acquisition was dressed up, it seems pretty obvious that it was as much about putting themselves back on the map. In that, it has not been a failure at all. At least they're now in a much more solid off-field position- a position from where, if they play their cards right, they can properly rebuild as an on-field force.

My comments have all been about the state of their list (in line with the thread topic), and how close they are to contending for a premiership.

If the entire purpose of the Judd trade was to improve their off-field position, it could be regarded as a moderate success but I suggest The Pratt family and Visy have more to do with that than Judd. How do their membership numbers stack up against the likes of Hawthorn, Collingwood and Essendon?

If there was a consideration to build a list to the point of being a sustained premiership contender, which I'd suggest there clearly was, then given where they are now and what they haven't achieved between then and now, the trade has been a bust.

 

[Old Dark Blues]

2seasons ago the president kernahan stood in front of the press unveiling their new coach malthouse. She questioned about ratts's good recent record of getting the team to the finals he stated that the club and the board felt that they had the list to win a flag so they wanted to get a coach that would fulfilled he lists potential. Pre season, malthouse states that he believes the talent is there and that with a new defensive mindset he'll bring they can finish top 4 and anything can happen from there (he even references his premiership clock to say that the blues are at around 10-11. They miss the finals (after rats gets them to 4 out of the last 5 finals series). Post season mick states that they clearly need outside run and they will address that. Halfway through the next season mick says that the list needs an overhaul, now we come to the present and he's saying that the list needs a rebuild.......

Yes yes, but the point is that this is all Rattens fault. It's not Micks fault - he hasn't even had a chance yet. Rattens fault. Say it.

SAY IT !!

 

[Monkey King]

My comments have all been about the state of their list (in line with the thread topic) ...

And the state of the list is in better shape than it was when Judd arrived. It is kind of bizarre that you suggest otherwise tbh. There is no measure where upon it could be seen to be in "exactly the same" position list-wise, as you state it is. If you really believe this, the time has come to stop repeating yourself, as though simply saying it makes it true, and start outlining how you've measured this.

If there was a consideration to build a list to the point of being a sustained premiership contender, which I'd suggest there clearly was, then given where they are now and what they haven't achieved between then and now, the trade has been a bust.

It's a ridiculous premise by which to measure any trade. Thus your conclusion is equally ridiculous.

 

[Monkey King]

Yes yes, but the point is that this is all Rattens fault. It's not Micks fault - he hasn't even had a chance yet. Rattens fault. Say it.

SAY IT !!

How's the weather in the Valley today?

 

[Monkey King]

You certainly are a glass half full fellow MK, good on you.

I find optimism is no less realism than pessimism. It's just a matter of personality. The sun is always rising and setting at the same time, it just depends upon where you position your perspective.

 

[Fadge]

And the state of the list is in better shape than it was when Judd arrived. It is kind of bizarre that you suggest otherwise tbh. There is no measure where upon it could be seen to be in "exactly the same" position list-wise, as you state it is. If you really believe this, the time has come to stop repeating yourself, as though simply saying it makes it true, and start outlining how you've measured this.

Ok, I'll give you that. You've gone from having the worst list in the competition to having the second worst list without contending for a flag. The team with the worst list contended on and off for seven seasons, with that push coming to an end three years ago.

If you have blind faith in your list, then good on you, but you are clearly in the minority. Just don't get too disappointed when they continue to 'under perform' in the short to medium term...

 

[Tas]

Carlton still has a lot of quality on their list, a lot of them aren't quite playing to the caliber of where they were taken but a good draft and trade period plus the extracting of the digit and they could improve significantly. Port were similarly a rabble side filled with a lot of talent, it just took the right type of coach to get the most out of them.

 

[Old Dark Blues]

Carlton still has a lot of quality on their list, a lot of them aren't quite playing to the caliber of where they were taken but a good draft and trade period plus the extracting of the digit and they could improve significantly. Port were similarly a rabble side filled with a lot of talent, it just took the right type of coach to get the most out of them.

Yup.

Preferably one that doesn't play favourites, doesn't hold grudges, nor public vendettas, does not have the emotional control of an ADHD bipolar narcissist, rewards effort, is fair and equitable, does not crucify players in the media, is not on a personal crusade and is instead.....well, I think we all get the picture here.

Maybe Mick could try taking them out into the middle of the oval in the middle of the night for a bit of good old hazing. Or even better, not play them all year, then give them one opportunity against the best player in the league to prove how crap they are, and how right(eous) he is himself, or - just not even play the kids - at all......

I hear Mick was happy to let Eddie go because he can offer big coin to Didak.

Did I mention how good Rowe is - now theres a player, now there is an awesome player - not like that Watson DUD or Curnow - pffffft !! Losers.

 

[Monkey King]

Ok, I'll give you that. You've gone from having the worst list in the competition to having the second worst list without contending for a flag. The team with the worst list contended on and off for seven seasons, with that push coming to an end three years ago.

Good. At least you can admit you erred in your claim. And without now being drawn to reply - beyond a summary dismissal - to your suggestion that Carlton have the second worst list, I'd just like to say how meaningless means of measuring improvement that would be; as two premiers are never of equal quality by sole virtue of their position, neither are two wooden spooners, or ninth place getters and so on. If you want to truly assess the state of a list, you simply do so by the quality of players therein. And Carlton are nowhere near where they were in 2007.

If you have blind faith in your list, then good on you, but you are clearly in the minority. Just don't get too disappointed when they continue to 'under perform' in the short to medium term...

Being in the minority never bothers me, but even in this thread there's been a healthy enough number of opposition posters pointing out that Carlton have more quality on their list than the likes of you are willing to recognise. So don't be surprised if Carlton's position doesn't eventuate as being as "dire" as you think it.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Playing with form and confidence

Murphy + Gibbs + Simpson + Judd + Henderson are A graders

B Graders

Jamison
Warnock
Daisy
Yarran
Carrazzo
Waite
Robinson

Good Youngsters
Menzel
Docherty
Cripps
Graham

The rest not sure if C or D-Z grade

so out of 42 players on the list I would keep 16 and 25% of the 16 are 30 y.o

Whoever thinks this list is good enough is delusional when was the last time we played in a preliminary final? This list just sucks.

You wrote this yesterday?? And they're A graders??

Gibbs can be an A grader but isn't playing as one, judd was one but is retiring.....Hendo at best is improving to B grade.

 

[Old Dark Blues]

How's the weather in the Valley today?

Mate - your on your own here - do you realise that ?

Even the Carlton board has started turning the corner - there are that many people coming out stating emphatically that things are shite and the problem lies with the supporters acceptance of shite that even the CARLTON BOARD has started admitting - maybe - being last is not Rattens Fault.


But yeah - Valley is great - hows 21st Century ?

 

[Monkey King]

Mate - your on your own here - do you realise that ?

On my own with what exactly?

 

[Fadge]

But yeah - Valley is great - hows 21st Century ?

Clearly MK hasn't entered the 21st century yet as he still thinks Carlton are a decent footy side...

 

[Old Dark Blues]

On my own with what exactly?

Claiming Mick has no responsibility for the crap position carlton are in and its all Rattens fault / your assessment of the list is hilariously wrong.