Carlton's list

[Gone Critical]

We were going no where under ratten. Over achieved which forced the club to over rate our list hence squandering picks on top up players like Warnock and Mclean. His trading, drafting and lack of development of players is as much to blame as anything.

Thats an unusual concept. "We were going no where with Ratten because we overachieved"

 

[Gone Critical]

MM seems to have miscalculated wher Carlton were at but still has taken them downhill at a rate of knots. He is an old coach but unlike at Collingwood has surrounded himself with older 2ICs. Wiley and Laidley have also been in the system a long time. Carlton need more dynamic young assistants to keep Mick up to date. That would be a better mix in the coaching group.

It's the reverse concept of why having Eade around Buckley or Balme around Thompson back in the day was a good idea

 

[koutamarto]

In 2011 Fevola wasn't even on the Carlton list.
Yes Judd, Scotland, Simpson and Carazzo were veterans at the 27-28 age but the rest is dribble.

Russell wasn't in the team in the second half of the year.
Murphy had his best season and just turned 24, he should now be compared with Selwood and Pendles as the games best mids - hasn't happened
Jamison was 25 and missed half of 2011, him playing full seasons was part of the story about how they would make the jump to top4
Waite played 12 games in 2011, missed entire second half...again a full season from him was part of the story about jumping to top4
Walker was 25 and had a great year across half forward....why the feck isn't he played there anymore??

Why did guys like Armfield, Robinson peak?

Why have guys like Garlett, Gibbs, Murphy, Yarran, Warnock, Henderson etc not matured into better players??

Plenty of Carlton players still in the peak 24-28 age now, but MM not getting results.

Perhaps Ratten got the best out of an ordinary list?

I reckon besides last year Murphy's output is under rated by the footy community. I wish he had more help around him so he could express himself more on the field.

 

[HARKER]

Trade Kruizer, Garlett, Watson, Bell and Armfield.

Delist Lucas, Temay, McInnes, Cachia and most of their rookies.

Which ones mike123

Tell me about Johnson, Reynolds, Sheehan and Byrne.................I'm interested in your opinion.

 

[mike123]

Which ones mike123

Tell me about Johnson, Reynolds, Sheehan and Byrne.................I'm interested in your opinion.

rookie listed players like Cachia

 

[HARKER]

MM seems to have miscalculated wher Carlton were at but still has taken them downhill at a rate of knots. He is an old coach but unlike at Collingwood has surrounded himself with older 2ICs. Wiley and Laidley have also been in the system a long time. Carlton need more dynamic young assistants to keep Mick up to date. That would be a better mix in the coaching group.

It's the reverse concept of why having Eade around Buckley or Balme around Thompson back in the day was a good idea

Maybe MM hadn't calculated for 21 ops in the off-season.

These day a team can't afford one weak link but we have several that the sooner we put them in for surgery the better.
Will be interesting whether we'll pull the pin though. I hope we do.

 

[HARKER]

rookie listed players like Cachia

No but you had already called Cachia and suggested most of the rookies.
I've named the rest of the rookies and may I add Wood also.

The rookies aren't the problem and for what it's worth, have all been good.

 

[Alison Platinum]

Maybe MM hadn't calculated for 21 ops in the off-season.

These day a team can't afford one weak link but we have several that the sooner we put them in for surgery the better.
Will be interesting whether we'll pull the pin though. I hope we do.

I love how injuries are now an excuse for being near the bottom, but werent allowed to be used as an excuse when you just missed out on finals under Ratten.

 

[HARKER]

I love how injuries are now an excuse for being near the bottom, but werent allowed to be used as an excuse when you just missed out on finals under Ratten.

Not an excuse...........just a fact.

Carlton would have been border-line top 8 if things went right. Things don't go right and we'll finish bottom 4.

Plenty of work to do for the CFC. No argument.

 

[JuddsABlue]

The question for Carlton is who do trade?

Warnock or Kruzier?

They can't play in the same side but are too good to be playing VFL. They both must have currency, Hampson got pick 28 or something so these guys must bring in something.

This is a big question we have to ask

Unfortunately Kruezer isnt getting a chance to remind us how valuable he is around the ground, while Warnock is dominating other ruckman most weeks

If we need to pull the trigger on this at seasons end, we could make a terrible mistake given we really dont know where Kruezer is at. Its a guessing game more than anything, we could ship him off somewhere for a speedy midfielder and Kruez could be a league dominating tall in 2016

 

[Fadge]

What does this have to do with our list?

Every coach picks their people and where they want to train.

You need to move on from lining up your last premiership coach. Mick doesn't owe the Pies anything.

And if he did he's doing a great job paying us back with what he's doing at Carlton. It's very entertaining to sit back and watch.

 

[theaflife]

How good is Dale Thomas working out.. Probably the worst 700k player in the league.

 

[blues4flag]

The may look A-Grade to some because they are playing in a below par midfield. Neither would be in the top 20 midfielders in the competition.

This year? Gibbs was top 10 in the AFLCA awards in a team that's won just 4 games coming into this round. He was our second best on the weekend, as he was last week. He was our best against Geelong the week before that and adjudged BOG by both coaches in a losing side.

His stats this season have been excellent - in fact, since round 4 he's been one of the best clearance players in the league. Has averaged 6.5 clearances a game in that period. Has also clearly had a better season than Murphy and to say he's not in the top 30 mids is laughable.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How good is Dale Thomas working out.. Probably the worst 700k player in the league.

Not really an issue when you have a list like ours that shouldn't be paying 100% of the salary cap anyway

 

[Corrosion]

FB: Touhy
HB: Simpson ##### Docherty
C: Yarran Murphy Everitt
HF: Thomas Henderson
FF: Menzel Casboult
Foll: ##### Judd Gibbs
Int: Curnow Robinson

Decent kids: Buckley, Cripps, Graham
Passed it: Carrazzo, Jamison, Waite
Limited trade value: Warnock, Garlett, Kreuzer, Walker
Most of the rest are either has beens or never was.

Trade what you can for those I mentioned. If you can get some extra second and third round picks and you are confident in the depth of the draft it has to be done.

I can't see any other viable option than to give up players like St Kilda have done with Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy. They managed to get good picks in for them. I don't even know if Carlton have those kind of players to ship out but they need to get whatever pick upgrades they can manage. The ruckman are a good place to start as they usually have value and when you are a bad side you can make do with a bad ruck, even Sydney are doing fine with Derickx. If Warnock or Kreuzer have any value then find out now. Walker is a waste in a bad side. Garlett is horrendously out of sort and may as well be gone.

Please go into more detail about how Jamison is past it?

 

[Fadge]

This year? Gibbs was top 10 in the AFLCA awards in a team that's won just 4 games coming into this round. He was our second best on the weekend, as he was last week. He was our best against Geelong the week before that and adjudged BOG by both coaches in a losing side.

His stats this season have been excellent - in fact, since round 4 he's been one of the best clearance players in the league. Has averaged 6.5 clearances a game in that period. Has also clearly had a better season than Murphy and to say he's not in the top 30 mids is laughable.

Feel free to rank him in the top 10 or 15 in the comp based on his last month of footy but most of us prefer to judge players over a sustained period...

Do you think Levi Greenwood is in the top five mids in the comp?

 

[OniAu]

Should trade away Kruezer and or Gibbs and go for a couple of high pick KP kids in this years draft.

Gibbs could almost get you a first rounder and possibly a decent bottom 22 player.

Kruezer maybe a late first rounder. Leaves the rucks exposed, nothing new though considering Kruezer is never on the park.

Do like the looks of Cripps, Bell, Menzel & Buckley

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Not impressed with some of Carlton's players, not mean enough to want to see them cut. Then they'd have to go play for Essendon, or otherwise Richmond.

 

[BEEG]

Should trade away Kruezer and or Gibbs and go for a couple of high pick KP kids in this years draft.

Gibbs could almost get you a first rounder and possibly a decent bottom 22 player.

Kruezer maybe a late first rounder. Leaves the rucks exposed, nothing new though considering Kruezer is never on the park.

Do like the looks of Cripps, Bell, Menzel & Buckley

Gibbs is Carlton's best player will win their BnF

 

[BEEG]

Carlton

Delist - Carazzo Waite McLean

Trade - Jamison Kruzer Robinson Garlett

Draft kids and bring in players who will have a crack blokes like Spangher

 

[blues4flag]

Feel free to rank him in the top 10 or 15 in the comp based on his last month of footy but most of us prefer to judge players over a sustained period...

Do you think Levi Greenwood is in the top five mids in the comp?

I'm talking season to date. He's been far and away our best player this season and it hasn't just been the last month. Some might consider it just momentary good form but it's the first time in years that I can remember that Gibbs has been asked to play as a genuine inside midfielder (where he played all his junior footy and what made him such a no brainer in the first place). I don't think it's a coincidence that he's now playing his best footy since 2009, when he also spent the majority of his time in the midfield, albeit in a more attacking role than he's currently playing.

He'll have to do it over an extended period of time to enter the elite category but he's a completely different kettle of fish to Levi. Gibbs has finished top 5 in our B&F some 5 times. He was already a very good player (B-grade) who looks on the verge of becoming a genuine A-grader.

 

[gbatman]

In 2011 Fevola wasn't even on the Carlton list.
Yes Judd, Scotland, Simpson and Carazzo were veterans at the 27-28 age but the rest is dribble.

Russell wasn't in the team in the second half of the year.
Murphy had his best season and just turned 24, he should now be compared with Selwood and Pendles as the games best mids - hasn't happened
Jamison was 25 and missed half of 2011, him playing full seasons was part of the story about how they would make the jump to top4
Waite played 12 games in 2011, missed entire second half...again a full season from him was part of the story about jumping to top4
Walker was 25 and had a great year across half forward....why the feck isn't he played there anymore??

Why did guys like Armfield, Robinson peak?

Why have guys like Garlett, Gibbs, Murphy, Yarran, Warnock, Henderson etc not matured into better players??

Plenty of Carlton players still in the peak 24-28 age now, but MM not getting results.

Perhaps Ratten got the best out of an ordinary list?

Time frame, didn't mean exactly 2011, just around that period, it's tripe to blame the coaching, how did we go in 2012 under Ratten? It's what happens when you don't have a steady influx of good young players and we haven't had that for a few years now.

 

[DERIBERATE]

The question for Carlton is who do trade?

Warnock or Kruzier?

They can't play in the same side but are too good to be playing VFL. They both must have currency, Hampson got pick 28 or something so these guys must bring in something.

Warnock - 5 years on the list and they've gotten more than half a season (in games) once. And the recepient will get him 2 years shy of 30. Not exactly a project player.

 

[theaflife]

Not really an issue when you have a list like ours that shouldn't be paying 100% of the salary cap anyway

Thats still 700k tied up you could have used to chase someone you actually need. Frawley... Dangerfield.. Fyfe.. Cameron?

 

[theaflife]

Should trade away Kruezer and or Gibbs and go for a couple of high pick KP kids in this years draft.

Gibbs could almost get you a first rounder and possibly a decent bottom 22 player.

Kruezer maybe a late first rounder. Leaves the rucks exposed, nothing new though considering Kruezer is never on the park.

Do like the looks of Cripps, Bell, Menzel & Buckley

I dont really think anyone would give up a 1st rounder for Kruezer tbh