Review Cats spay Demons by 39 points.

[Hinkley29]

Watched the 'last quarter' a couple of times now of Cats vs Demons now Mr Meow and Bailey Smith's running capacity and I do mean 'his hard running capacity' and his ability to continually run into open spaces and 'holes'..... even in reasonably confined areas 'is elite' and is good as I've seen and we are talking about the 'last quarter' which means his fitness levels and his willingness to push himself under extreme duress is 'exceptional' which also results in opening up space for team-mates because opposition players are committed to trying to close him down. Not only that, but once he found possession his disposal did not waver which in itself was quite a feat and wonderful to see given the fatigue factor. Mr Meow:, Bailey Smith's value to the Geelong Football Club going forward 'is going to be immense', even more-so in finals at MCG and for those who do not understand that, simply do not understand football..... only wish we had him in last years prelim, as we would have had another premiership cup for the taking!

Mr Meow: I've had some Geelong BigFooty people tell me at start of year that COS will need another year in the twos or rather wait until later in season for him to get a AFL game as his not physically AFL ready which completely floored me as I've regarded for sometime, COS being the best young player at the Cattery since Joel Selwood. Others wanting Oisin Mullin dropped after first two games, others thinking Toby Conway (Damian Bourke clone) will not be our automatic number one ruckman when he comes back in second half of year (some not even wanting Toby to have resigned). Even recently with Shannon Neale needing to improve quickly or should be dropped, 'AMAZING' as his presence and structure to the side is immense and the list goes on, which also happens to coincide with a couple of narrow losses. I disappointingly just see, we have a few 'panic merchants' here at Geelong BigFooty with some unfortunately obsessed and misguided by stats and/or poor results, who fail to see the 'bigger picture'. As you are well aware Mr Meow: with being the excellent observer that you are, that we're currently going through a 'extremely exciting transitional stage' WHILE COMPETING FOR TOP 4 with so many promising, excellent and up and coming young players coming through the system and thankfully with Chris and co. they fully see 'the bigger picture' and no doubt, see nothing but exciting times ahead for the Geelong Footy Club.... and GO CATS !!!

PS - Mr Meow:, next time we play Brisbane Lions with Toby Conway playing ruck, I'd like to see SDK play on Harris Andrews which will automatically stop his dominance and more then likely shut him out of the game, in fact I'd love to see on the odd occasions through the season depending on who we are playing, SDK play centre half forward for Cats as he has that capability and flexibility to do extremely well in that role which could be invaluable to the team, which in modern football is a 'huge advantage'..... although it must be said that I do see SDK and COS as being our key backline pillars for the next dozen years or so..... and once again, GO CATS !!!

Until Conway can prove that he can get out of bed without hurting himself, we need to assume that he will be a non factor at our footy club.

Durability is a skill, probably the most important skill a player can have. and he has shown zero durability.

 

[PhatBoy]

No it was shown that his output was similar to esava ratugolea..

No it wasn’t. You were shown a graphic that compared Ratugolea after almost 100 games.

You asked about players gifted their first 50 games. Well you’ve been given the answers. So read them.

Neale is kicking just under 1.2 goals per game. He’s contributing 0.57 goal assists a game, after 24 matches.

At the same stage Ratugolea had 18 goals from 24 games and less goal assists than Neale (Neale has 13, Esava had 5). So at identical stages Ratugolea was worse. Not similar. Worse.

After 24 games:

Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Esava: 18 goals, 4 assists, 22 goals contributed, 0.88 per game contributed.

They aren’t remotely close


After 50 games he had actually gotten worse still. He had kicked 31 goals after 49 games…. Then in his 50th he finally kicked 4.

After 50 games Esava had:

35 goals, 16 assists. He had JUST broken through the magical ‘one goal contributed per game’ barrier, albeit his actual goal output had dropped, and even THAT came courtesy of his only ever haul of four goals coming in his 50th match.

They’re not remotely similar, and that’s with Neale still only 24 games into his career.


Now, compared to Hawkins?

After 24 games


Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Hawkins: 33 goals, 15 assists, 48 goals contributed, average of 2 per game contributed.


By the time Hawkins got to 50

66 goals, 35 assists. 101 goals contributed. Average of 2 per game still. He hadn’t improved at all.

So, again, for the second time, his output isn’t similar to Esava Ratugolea, it’s much closer to that of Tom Hawkins; who was playing in a team that during that period won 52 out of 55 games at one point.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not the better team talk… a lot of trolls on bigfooty used to say similar nonsense to discredit good work of our players.

He showed immense talent at AFL level inconsistently, because he was a very talented young player, not because he played in a team of good players.

Of course he was talented but he also took a shitload of time to deliver and you cannot possibly suggest that it wouldn’t have helped to be in a side with that level of relative of strength.

 

[Hinkley29]

Anyone who thinks Neale has the same level of talent or production as Sav as a forward can be ignored. It simply isn’t true

 

[Hinkley29]

No it wasn’t. You were shown a graphic that compared Ratugolea after almost 100 games.

You asked about players gifted their first 50 games. Well you’ve been given the answers. So read them.

Neale is kicking just under 1.2 goals per game. He’s contributing 0.57 goal assists a game, after 24 matches.

At the same stage Ratugolea had 18 goals from 24 games and less goal assists than Neale (Neale has 13, Esava had 5). So at identical stages Ratugolea was worse. Not similar. Worse.

After 24 games:

Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Esava: 18 goals, 4 assists, 22 goals contributed, 0.88 per game contributed.

They aren’t remotely close


After 50 games he had actually gotten worse still. He had kicked 31 goals after 49 games…. Then in his 50th he finally kicked 4.

After 50 games Esava had:

35 goals, 16 assists. He had JUST broken through the magical ‘one goal contributed per game’ barrier, albeit his actual goal output had dropped, and even THAT came courtesy of his only ever haul of four goals coming in his 50th match.

They’re not remotely similar, and that’s with Neale still only 24 games into his career.


Now, compared to Hawkins?

After 24 games


Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Hawkins: 33 goals, 15 assists, 48 goals contributed, average of 2 per game contributed.


By the time Hawkins got to 50

66 goals, 35 assists. 101 goals contributed. Average of 2 per game still. He hadn’t improved at all.

So, again, for the second time, his output isn’t similar to Esava Ratugolea, it’s much closer to that of Tom Hawkins; who was playing in a team that during that period won 52 out of 55 games at one point.

Arguing with someone whose user name is Geelongcrazy_26 about the merits of Tom Hawkins is always fraught with danger.

It would be like someone trying to convince me that Ken Hinkley wasn’t the greatest half back flankers of the 90’s. It is a futile exercise.

 

[PhatBoy]

Arguing with someone whose user name is Geelongcrazy_26 about the merits of Tom Hawkins is always fraught with danger.

It would be like someone trying to convince me that Ken Hinkley wasn’t the greatest half back flankers of the 90’s. It is a futile exercise.

Ironically Hawkins is probably my favourite player of the lot and he’s clearly leagues above Neale but the point remains the same that the game has many examples of players who took their time as big guys to find their feet and it’s bizarre that the best one we’ve had for 30 years and our games record holder who just retired has been forgotten so quickly

 

[MacStradbroke]

For anyone of the belief Shannon Neale is being gifted games, just one question. Who is he being gifted games in front of?

 

[allrighty]

I think we can say to give Neale time but also admit he had been poor

IIRC he did an ankle last week and was in a moon boot post game. To think that has no impact is ludicrous.

Seriously BF does my head in at times.

 

[Spearman]

Anyone else notice vision of Oliver having lengthy chats with Stewart Stanley and Danger both during and after the game.

Probably asking Stanley if he needed any help on the farm. And was practically trying to get Dangerfield pregnant.

Still think he’s very short odds to be at Geelong next year. The more the Dees stink it up the more he’s out. Dees will go full rebuild and he’ll be part of the fire sale.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I thought the two teams were extremely friendly the whole match. CO asking about his favorite cow maybe? I wonder if they brought up to him his alleged remarks to MFC when he went back.
Lot of helping hands up for oppos. Except for tunneling Eraserhead that is.

 

[iameviljez]

Not the better team talk… a lot of trolls on bigfooty used to say similar nonsense to discredit good work of our players.

It's a reasonable thing to bring up if comparing Hawkins with Neale. It's a hell of a lot easier to put up a bag of four if your team is kicking 20 goals off 60 i50s.

 

[iameviljez]

Arguing with someone whose user name is Geelongcrazy_26 about the merits of Tom Hawkins is always fraught with danger.

It would be like someone trying to convince me that Ken Hinkley wasn’t the greatest half back flankers of the 90’s. It is a futile exercise.

gc26 joined in Jan 2006 - so it's entirely possible that he/she might have just been an enormous Matthew McCarthy fan...

 

[iameviljez]

For anyone of the belief Shannon Neale is being gifted games, just one question. Who is he being gifted games in front of?

The alternative choices are (1) Stanley in, SDK or Jack Henry forward, or (2) Wiltshire in, go smaller up forward.

 

[Pollywaffle]

I thought the two teams were extremely friendly the whole match. CO asking about his favorite cow maybe? I wonder if they brought up to him his alleged remarks to MFC when he went back.
Lot of helping hands up for oppos. Except for tunneling Eraserhead that is.

Yes I thought that too. Is it a bad thing ? Hard to judge. I’m sure there would be those that are critical
I like the fact that it was a mostly hard fought game, but good vibes between the players.

 

[iameviljez]

Yes I thought that too. Is it a bad thing ? Hard to judge. I’m sure there would be those that are critical
I like the fact that it was a mostly hard fought game, but good vibes between the players.

As the winning team, I really don't care.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Until Conway can prove that he can get out of bed without hurting himself, we need to assume that he will be a non factor at our footy club.

Durability is a skill, probably the most important skill a player can have. and he has shown zero durability.

Toby Conway, who one day will be in the top 3 ruckman in the AFL is ONLY 21 yo and 207 cms, so injury set-back's in his early career are far more likely to happen than not happen and not dissimilar to champion and outstanding Demons ruckman in Max Gawn. Sure, Toby has had a couple of unfortunate early set-back's but that is all they were, otherwise the club would have never 'resigned him recently' if they had viewed and analysed him through 'your eyes' with ZERO DURABILITY which thankfully they did not. Toby is currently in training, with the club focusing on building up his body and fitness levels to be ready for second half of season in which if all is going well, will be an absolute blessing for all us Cat supporters.

--------------------------------------------------

Repost - with Toby Conway long-term view - Toby was drafted in 2021 with pick 24

With Toby only being 21yo, he is still only a baby as far a big 'long term' ruckman are concerned and I wouldn't start having 'any concerns' with him for at least two years unless there were medical reports to suggest otherwise. I mentioned earlier that Max Gawn is a excellent guide when reviewing Toby, so I've quickly Google'd and come up with this A1 Overview of Max Gawn's career up-to-date which I think seems not to far off the mark but I do stand to be corrected if it is proven that any of this information is incorrect, if so please let me know.

But yeah, I just think in the full context of Toby Conway's future, this is a good guide to go by with Max taking a full 6 years to become Melbourne's number ruckman in 2015 after being drafted in 2009.

AI Overview
Learn more

Max Gawn is an Australian rules footballer who plays for the Melbourne Football Club. He was born on December 30, 1991.

Early career

• Drafted by the Melbourne Football Club in 2009
• Made his AFL debut in 2011
• Knee and hamstring injuries affected his first four seasons
• Became Melbourne's number-one ruckman in 2015

Achievements

• Selected for the All-Australian team in 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022
  
  
• Won the best and fairest award in 2018 and 2019
  
  
• Led Melbourne to their first premiership since 1964 in 2021
  
  
• Named captain of the Melbourne Football Club in 2020
  
  
• Holds the club record for the most All-Australian blazers

Current status

• Signed a new contract with the Melbourne Football Club until the end of 2027
  
  
• Considered one of the top players in the competition's history
  
  
• A cult hero and fan favorite of the Melbourne Demons

 

[Tony Barber]

I didn't know much about Bailey Smith.
But the way he works is changing our team before our eyes. Wait until the midfield really gets to know each others habits and traits.

I'm now thinking that pick 15 (or whatever), was a bargain.
How the hell he has this much endurance and speed after 18 months off is staggering.

 

[PeasFC]

I dont watch non geelong games much anymore (too many other things going on in my life) so i didnt know much about bailey smith coming into this season.

unless he is uncharacteristically below his best at the moment he aint a gun is he? Certainly wont ever be a top twenty in the comp player. Might not ever be all australian level as a mid.

And he is more inside then I thought with not much outside damage factor (lots of scrappy handballs that dont hit their target too). Certainly nothing like holmes or danger in terms of x factor. Seems more at the peak cam guthrie and mitch duncan talent level then anything else. Maybe slightly better.

Great that we have him. Certainly need players like him in the mids. But he doesnt match the pre season hype. Am i alone on this assessment?

I think it's a bit premature to put a ceiling on him. Was probably best on ground against freo in his first game for almost 18 months. He has had some knee soreness and a calf complaint in the early stages and I expect him to continue to improve. I'm very thankful to have him in the midfield this year, without him it would be extremely thin. He showed at the dogs that he can hit the scoreboard, is an elite runner and if he can tidy up his disposal then his upside is obvious. We don't necessary need him to be a top 20 mid, but contending for all australian would be a huge result. He was the best available, fits a need and we went and got him. So far, I'm pretty happy to have him.

 

[PeasFC]

He's played 3 games at a new club after having a load of time off. I think we can be quite happy with 2.5 games from that run. Now that Holmes is getting tagged and Dangerfield spends more time forward, Smith is a valuable addition (I think if he played against St Kilda we'd have won that game).

We got him for pick 20 and he is still pretty young. Somewhere on the A to B grade spectrum makes him a bargain. Nobody thought we were getting peak Dangerfield, Martin or Selwood though.

A perfect take. Agree

 

[D BRIDGE]

I'm now thinking that pick 15 (or whatever), was a bargain.
How the hell he has this much endurance and speed after 18 months off is staggering.

Ended up being pick 20 on draft night.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Anyone else notice vision of Oliver having lengthy chats with Stewart Stanley and Danger both during and after the game.

Probably asking Stanley if he needed any help on the farm. And was practically trying to get Dangerfield pregnant.

Still think he’s very short odds to be at Geelong next year. The more the Dees stink it up the more he’s out. Dees will go full rebuild and he’ll be part of the fire sale.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Doubt it. The time was last year. At 29 and on that contract he would have to be cheap (like 2nd rounder) for us to do it and Melbourne won't sell him that cheap but he's too old for clubs to offer first rounders for him. Him and petracca are probably both stuck there to retirement though they want to go.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Ended up being pick 20 on draft night.

I'm very happy with Bailey Smith for Cooper hynes even with his shoddy kicking.

 

[PeasFC]

The standard of discourse in this thread this morning has been below standard.

The 'Tom Hawkins delist' narrative anytime a young key forward at this club is criticised over the years is disingenuous and does not help advance the conversation.

The last fortnight Shannon Neale and Ollie Henry have been non-competitive. And its not acceptable.
Add in Stengle who needs strong representation at the contest to do his bit and we have half our forward line non-competitive. It cannot continue.

Play like that on Thursday night and we have no chance.

It's completely OK to be critical of the form and output of Neale, Henry, Stengle and even Cameron. But suggesting that they should be dropped is pretty intense - Whiltshire is the only forward in the two's putting any pressure on and he's a small. Neale has lots of upside and should be persisted with - he is literally the only tall key forward we have.

When Henry, Blicavs and Kolo are all fit - perhaps moving SDK forward and using his as our back up ruck to Blics/Conway/Stanley could be the move. COS has also played forward but I think right now you keep letting him build his confidence in defence which he is doing well.

Martin & Whiltshire are the two that can put pressure on Henry if his output doesn't improve. What we do know right now, is that our forward line outside of danger is down in output. I expect the midfield group are talking about getting more quality heading inside 50, and there is no doubt the forwardline coaches have plenty on their agenda to work on.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Toby Conway, who one day will be in the top 3 ruckman in the AFL is ONLY 21 yo and 207 cms, so injury set-back's in his early career are far more likely to happen than not happen and not dissimilar to champion and outstanding Demons ruckman in Max Gawn. Sure, Toby has had a couple of unfortunate early set-back's but that is all they were, otherwise the club would have never 'resigned recently' him if they had viewed and analysed him through 'your eyes' with ZERO DURABILITY which thankfully they did not. Toby is currently in training, with the club focusing on building up his body and fitness levels to be ready for second half of season in which if all is going well, will be an absolute blessing for all us Cat supporters.

--------------------------------------------------

Repost - with Toby Conway long-term view -

With Toby only being 21yo, he is still only a baby as far a big 'long term' ruckman are concerned and I wouldn't start having 'any concerns' with him for at least two years unless there were medical reports to suggest otherwise. I mentioned earlier that Max Gawn is a excellent guide when reviewing Toby, so I've quickly Google'd and come up with this A1 Overview of Max Gawn's career up-to-date which I think seems not to far off the mark but I do stand to be corrected if it is proven that any of this information is incorrect, if so please let me know.

But yeah, I just think in the full context of Toby Conway's future, this is a good guide to go by with Max taking a full 6 years to become Melbourne's number ruckman in 2015 after being drafted in 2009.

AI Overview
Learn more

Max Gawn is an Australian rules footballer who plays for the Melbourne Football Club. He was born on December 30, 1991.

Early career

• Drafted by the Melbourne Football Club in 2009
• Made his AFL debut in 2011
• Knee and hamstring injuries affected his first four seasons
• Became Melbourne's number-one ruckman in 2015

Achievements

• Selected for the All-Australian team in 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022
  
  
• Won the best and fairest award in 2018 and 2019
  
  
• Led Melbourne to their first premiership since 1964 in 2021
  
  
• Named captain of the Melbourne Football Club in 2020
  
  
• Holds the club record for the most All-Australian blazers

Current status

• Signed a new contract with the Melbourne Football Club until the end of 2027
  
  
• Considered one of the top players in the competition's history
  
  
• A cult hero and fan favorite of the Melbourne Demons

That's great but up until year 5/6 on the list and beyond everyone said the same about Dawson Simpson and it all turned out to be wrong. I like Conway but he's a non entity until he can stay on the park.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

You can tell he's spent a lot of the with Danger.

The voices are different, but the cadence is almost identical.

 

[PeasFC]

No it wasn’t. You were shown a graphic that compared Ratugolea after almost 100 games.

You asked about players gifted their first 50 games. Well you’ve been given the answers. So read them.

Neale is kicking just under 1.2 goals per game. He’s contributing 0.57 goal assists a game, after 24 matches.

At the same stage Ratugolea had 18 goals from 24 games and less goal assists than Neale (Neale has 13, Esava had 5). So at identical stages Ratugolea was worse. Not similar. Worse.

After 24 games:

Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Esava: 18 goals, 4 assists, 22 goals contributed, 0.88 per game contributed.

They aren’t remotely close


After 50 games he had actually gotten worse still. He had kicked 31 goals after 49 games…. Then in his 50th he finally kicked 4.

After 50 games Esava had:

35 goals, 16 assists. He had JUST broken through the magical ‘one goal contributed per game’ barrier, albeit his actual goal output had dropped, and even THAT came courtesy of his only ever haul of four goals coming in his 50th match.

They’re not remotely similar, and that’s with Neale still only 24 games into his career.


Now, compared to Hawkins?

After 24 games


Neale: 28 goals, 13 goal assists, 41 goals contributed, average of 1.65 per game contributed

Hawkins: 33 goals, 15 assists, 48 goals contributed, average of 2 per game contributed.


By the time Hawkins got to 50

66 goals, 35 assists. 101 goals contributed. Average of 2 per game still. He hadn’t improved at all.

So, again, for the second time, his output isn’t similar to Esava Ratugolea, it’s much closer to that of Tom Hawkins; who was playing in a team that during that period won 52 out of 55 games at one point.

Great post.

Stats aside - Neale is an elite runner, who has had a standout game in a final, is a good kick and looks to have upside. He was a second round selection which is largely a lottery when looking at KPF's. At this stage, I'm very happy to have him. Garry Lyon was pretty effusive about his last quarter on friday night where he got some reward for effort. I'm excited he can become a very solid contributor and hopefully his output builds as the year goes on.