CEY: training camp ripped the heart out of Adelaide Crows

[John Who]

STFU let it die take it too your private boxes

I'm allowed to defend myself.

 

[cleanhands]

I'm allowed to defend myself.

Look at the forum it’s not about you

 

[John Who]

I think trolls like John Who deserve ridicule. Let's face it, he appeared in on this board during that little crusade last year to support the happy clappers when they were feeling everything on the board was "so negative" and people were "spreading wild rumours". There were others, but John has certainly been the most persistent.

The case has been heard and decided. We were right, by the club's own admission. So putting these knobs on ignore is actually a very sane thing to do.

Just do whatever you want mate. It's a free world.

 

[John Who]

Look at the forum it’s not about you

Well why don't you address it to the entire forum then?

 

[cleanhands]

Well why don't you address it to the entire forum then?

Ignore it is

 

[John Who]

In fairness to those you've potted in the above and subsequent posts, you've put forward some fake news of your own in this post.

In particular, you use the phrase:

"That statement, while slightly less incendiary, also highlights a player that has left after being dissatisfied with the aforementioned sequence of events", in relation to Hugh Greenwood, clearly implying that that he has left us as a result of the camp, which is just plain incorrect. He is on record - both before and after his departure, as stating that he would have preferred to stay. Same applies with Keath.

Has the camp impacted their willingness to hang around on lesser terms - probably. But that's very different to them 'leaving after being dissatisfied with the aforementioned sequence of events'.

The biggest impact of the camp on guys like Greenwood, Keath and Sauce, is that it created an environment not conducive to signing them on for the extended contracts they were seeking (or in the case of Sauce, he's just a s**t player now so he would have been played in the 2's).

You also make it sound like Eddie and his family moved over here for the long haul, and only the camp has dislodged them and has driven them back to Melbourne. Eddie moved here because of family reasons. At the time - well before this camp debacle - it was frequently reported on this board that he would eventually move back to Melbourne. Has the camp played a part in bringing that forward a year? Probably, but it was generally accepted that he was going back at some stage anyway - his poor form and the increasing pressure for us to play youth as part of a rebuild (meaning less game time for Eddie) is a massive factor as well.

None of this dilutes the premise of your post, that the camp was s**t, and alot of players didn't like it, and it's messed up our club since. But mistruths are mistruths, and should be called out when they happen (Honors in Sociology or not).

His inital post was basically a summary of what the main thoughts were on this board. Basically all loose associations from one event to the next. The only concrete facts really, was that we definitely went backwards over the last 2 years and a lot of players are leaving due to our focus on a rebuild in 2020.

Everything else is just white noise.

 

[spenze]

It's been alleged that the players were all made to "man scape" as a group.

John Who how do you think that has affected their pubic confidence?

 

[dogs105]

It's been alleged that the players were all made to "man scape" as a group.

John Who how do you think that has affected their pubic confidence?

I'd call that a bald faced lie

 

[Bovo]

It's been alleged that the players were all made to "man scape" as a group.

John Who how do you think that has affected their pubic confidence?

Look jps I don’t know where you get these stories from... But each one is more far fetched than the last.

 

[feenix67]

It's been alleged that the players were all made to "man scape" as a group.

John Who how do you think that has affected their pubic confidence?

They say it makes it look bigger...

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'm talking "character assassination" in the basic psychological realm

Leaving aside your assault on the english language, this still isn't a thing.

Look, why are you still trying the con on at this point? It hasnt been successful- people didnt buy it. Do you think they're more likely to buy it if you double down?

 

[Southerntakeover]

I think trolls like John Who deserve ridicule. Let's face it, he appeared in on this board during that little crusade last year to support the happy clappers when they were feeling everything on the board was "so negative" and people were "spreading wild rumours". There were others, but John has certainly been the most persistent.

The case has been heard and decided. We were right, by the club's own admission. So putting these knobs on ignore is actually a very sane thing to do.

Absolutely- posters who behave purely as partisans should not be given sympathy when the world view they were attempting to force is revealed to be a sham.

What's interesting is the exceptionally high number of claims of being the victims of 'bullying' that have come from them recently whenever disagreed with. Seems tactical, doesnt it?

 

[TexForPM]

I just wanna know which posters knows the mostest about feelings and stuff.

 

[FR0GGY]

I would find that part very hard to believe. We are talking early February 2018, and impersonation an indigenous elder did not make national news.
Any would-be an indigenous person pretending to be an elder would be front-page news, and any white pretending to be an Elder would have been on every news channel in Australia.

Even incorrectly using or missnaming indigenous artefacts, is interesting in its own right and frowned on in Australia, and depending on the use of such items and explanations can be Illegal, However, they can be used in the wrong context, which may be closer to the truth I believe.

Lots of stories going around but some are ridiculous and tend to miss the real issues at the club.

Didn’t we already admit to that with the talking stick?

 

[FR0GGY]

I think trolls like John Who deserve ridicule. Let's face it, he appeared in on this board during that little crusade last year to support the happy clappers when they were feeling everything on the board was "so negative" and people were "spreading wild rumours". There were others, but John has certainly been the most persistent.

The case has been heard and decided. We were right, by the club's own admission. So putting these knobs on ignore is actually a very sane thing to do.

Actually about the same time as CM

 

[cleanhands]

They say it makes it look bigger...

Some of us need help

 

[CrowinNT]

I just wanna know which posters knows the mostest about feelings and stuff.

Please Ask any woman including myself
We have real life experiences

 

[cleanhands]

I just wanna know which posters knows the mostest about feelings and stuff.

Me too just want to know who to turn to for a hug

 

[ad victoriam]

Didn’t we already admit to that with the talking stick?

Do Australia indigenous people use talking sticks or did do they use a message sticks,
But there is a lot mixed message from the camp with several media outlets mention several different artefacts
I was under the impression it was the incorrect use of didgeridoo depending on what part of Australia you came from.

 

[CrowinNT]

Actually about the same time as CM

Well possibly
I just find it strange when people do suddenly appear and start making threads straight away.
Then every time someone responds to their thread they engage
Sometimes the new threads opened are just repeats of others but manipulated
It’s like a self indulgent moment of look at me
Possibly these types seek that

I’ve never created a thread ( correct me if I am wrong)

The only comment by Mr Who that really pricked my senses was when he sited a number of likes he got for posts

 

[conVINCEd]

Actually about the same time as CM

John Who is Amin Woulfe?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Nah- Woulfe must have been capable of convincing people he knew what he was on about at some point

 

[CrowinNT]

Do Australia indigenous people use talking sticks or did do they use a message sticks,
But there is a lot mixed message from the camp with several media outlets mention several different artefacts
I was under the impression it was the incorrect use of didgeridoo depending on what part of Australia you came from.

A form of messaging

 

[Doctor B]

Nah- Woulfe must have been capable of convincing people he knew what he was on about at some point

Maybe it was only birdbrain Burton he needed to convince

 

[Shadow89]

In fairness to those you've potted in the above and subsequent posts, you've put forward some fake news of your own in this post.

In particular, you use the phrase:

"That statement, while slightly less incendiary, also highlights a player that has left after being dissatisfied with the aforementioned sequence of events", in relation to Hugh Greenwood, clearly implying that that he has left us as a result of the camp, which is just plain incorrect. He is on record - both before and after his departure, as stating that he would have preferred to stay. Same applies with Keath.

Has the camp impacted their willingness to hang around on lesser terms - probably. But that's very different to them 'leaving after being dissatisfied with the aforementioned sequence of events'.

The biggest impact of the camp on guys like Greenwood, Keath and Sauce, is that it created an environment not conducive to signing them on for the extended contracts they were seeking (or in the case of Sauce, he's just a s**t player now so he would have been played in the 2's).

You also make it sound like Eddie and his family moved over here for the long haul, and only the camp has dislodged them and has driven them back to Melbourne. Eddie moved here because of family reasons. At the time - well before this camp debacle - it was frequently reported on this board that he would eventually move back to Melbourne. Has the camp played a part in bringing that forward a year? Probably, but it was generally accepted that he was going back at some stage anyway - his poor form and the increasing pressure for us to play youth as part of a rebuild (meaning less game time for Eddie) is a massive factor as well.

None of this dilutes the premise of your post, that the camp was s**t, and alot of players didn't like it, and it's messed up our club since. But mistruths are mistruths, and should be called out when they happen (Honors in Sociology or not).

Nah most of that is fair enough. It was more of a logical inference, connecting the dots. Notice I don't say it 'unequivocally is truth and fact' lol, like some. I just say that the post 'highlights' a player that's dissatisfied with the aforementioned sequence of events. Given what you've said re: him preferring to stay, I apologise for making that inference.

Re: Betts, that one was a bit more concrete. He stated in 2017 that he 'wanted to play out his career at Adelaide', hence his 3 year extension to end of 2020. It is a bit odd then that he backflipped and decided to go back to Carlton (a club that wouldn't pay him an extra 50K to stay 6 years ago), despite making those comments only a couple of years ago. There are also pretty strong comments from people in the know that I know, stating how incensed his wife was with Betts' treatment at that camp. Which sort of lines up with what Cam Ellis-Yolmen said re: 'ripping the heart out of the players' and 'dividing the group.' It also lines up with reports that Indigenous players were disrespected, along with their traditions - digging stick (artefact) being used as a speaking stick, as evidenced here:

Mind coaches launch defence of Crows' AFL pre-season camp

The company responsible for a controversial pre-season mind training camp attended by Adelaide Crows AFL players rejects blame for the club's poor on-field performance, saying the training was well received.

www.abc.net.au

"One element Collective Mind admitted to getting wrong was using an Aboriginal digging stick instead of a talking stick during sessions at the camp.

"[One player] was concerned about whether that was the appropriate use of that implement for that use," Mr Leddie said.

But he said using the digging stick had been approved by an elder as okay three days later."


There's also this:

JUST IN | Adelaide clarify what actually took place on their preseason camp

Brett Burton and Don Pyke have clarified what happened regarding their indigenous players.

www.sen.com.au

"It was reported multiple indigenous players took issue with some of the events that took place on the controversial preseason camp and Burton clarified the situation."

**************

Again, the first comments are from Collective Mind themselves. The second is a little bit more vague. I think though, there's enough evidence to show that Betts was at least dissatisfied with events at the camp, and the subsequent way the club handled it.

Apologies again though for the Greenwood comments. Definitely got that one wrong. I still think Betts left for the reasons stated, but probably should have provided some references, or at least further context. Could still be proven to be wrong though, but there's a lot more evidence to suggest that this camp had a notable effect on Betts personally. You were right to bring me up on both counts though. No issue with that.

P.S. Honours degree comment was just to point out my understanding of trauma and how it was false to say that 'nearly all people show signs of trauma after an incident.' Was basically saying that this is my wheelhouse, this is my experience, and what you are saying doesn't have much merit given the numerous academic journals I've read that say otherwise. Also to point out that it's damaging to have that kind of mentality, given the medical effect it could have on someone if they don't show trauma straight away - dismissal of possible further symptoms. Was also to show that I gave up 4 years of my life and over 50K to gain this sort of information, rather than just looking up random statements and making vague generalizations, seemingly based on confirmation bias, on an internet forum.