Changes / Team for 2010

[Alex99]

This is my side for 2010. Considering we only lost last night i expect my opinion on this side to change over the summer months.

I would have Ivan Maric starting in the ruckman as his second half of the year was outstanding. His level of improved was out of site in the last 9 or 10 weeks, Moran was good but Maric IMO was far superior.

Would move Porplyzia to a half forward flank and play the same sort of role as Chris Knights. In and out of the midfield with their rotation as well as still being that goal kicking option.

Hentschel would be the first option if he can stay fit and then Stevens but one or the other in that position - doesn't really matter who. Walker and Tippett have to be the 2 key forwards with McKernan offering back up for ruck or forward line.

My side at this stage would look something like this.

B: Johncock, Rutten, Davis
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Goodwin
C: Mackay, Vince, Otten
HF: Knights, Tippett, Porplyzia
F: Sloane, Walker, Hentschel/Stevens
1R: Maric, Dangerfield, Thompson
I: McKernan, Doughty, Symes, Reilly

Emer: Moran, Sellar, Armstrong, Petrenko, Young, Cook

But with retirements, delisting and trades this side could change.

 

[Alex99]

he's just a depth player for the Crows IMHO. Will only come in if out performing Sellar, McKernan and Hentschel and an injury/out of form tall forward in the best 22

Interesting again. So someone who has only played one, two or a maximum of three SANFL leagues games (plenty as a defender) as a forward will line up in the hardest position on the ground. Where as someone who has kicked over 50 goals as a forward will only be a depth player.

 

[Riggy1]

your sanfl loyalty is obvious - Armstrong and Gallman to be retained

Armstrong WILL be retained
Gallman is just my opinion because I dont really see many good mid sized defenders in our squad at the moment and may be needed

he was also almost even in pre-season with Otten in the fight for Bassett's spot, untill he got injured

he was plagued by injury for the first half of the year, and has actually been in some decent form in the last few weeks, once he got his attacking game in check. He has ALWAYS been a great defender.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Armstrong WILL be retained
Gallman is just my opinion because I dont really see many good mid sized defenders in our squad at the moment and may be needed

he was also almost even in pre-season with Otten in the fight for Bassett's spot, untill he got injured

he was plagued by injury for the first half of the year, and has actually been in some decent form in the last few weeks, once he got his attacking game in check. He has ALWAYS been a great defender.

No offence but there would be many other players in position as a medium defenders ahead of Gallman.

Goodwin, Otten, Symes, van Berlo would all be ahead of him. All of these have lined up on some talls over their career.

Gallman and Gill are certainties to be cut IMHO.

 

[Alex99]

Armstrong WILL be retained
Gallman is just my opinion because I dont really see many good mid sized defenders in our squad at the moment and may be needed

he was also almost even in pre-season with Otten in the fight for Bassett's spot, untill he got injured

he was plagued by injury for the first half of the year, and has actually been in some decent form in the last few weeks, once he got his attacking game in check. He has ALWAYS been a great defender.

Look I agree with you that he will be retained but to say he is a great defender is stretching it a bit. He is a good player in the SANFL and will be a good depth player next year and could even become a good AFL player over time if he gets his opportunity but won’t be a great player.


If he was a great defender, why didn’t he go to Nick Salter today? He won the Eagles the game by kicking 5 goals.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Armstrong WILL be retained
Gallman is just my opinion because I dont really see many good mid sized defenders in our squad at the moment and may be needed

he was also almost even in pre-season with Otten in the fight for Bassett's spot, untill he got injured

he was plagued by injury for the first half of the year, and has actually been in some decent form in the last few weeks, once he got his attacking game in check. He has ALWAYS been a great defender.

Don't get me wrong I like Armstrong however I do not believe that he will be in our round 1 team however I would like to think he will push for selection during the year especially if Macca retires.

Agree on Gallman, he was probably the front runner for Bassett's role before getting injured early however I do not share your thoughts regarding mid size defenders, Otten and Young can both play this role and Stevens and Davis can play tall or the mid size role so we do have plenty of options.

Unfortunately for Gallman it did take him a long time to bounce back frominjury and I'm not confident that he has done enough to retain his spot on the list

 

[Alex99]

Gallman and Gill are certainties to be cut IMHO.

I humbly disagree. If what M23 said is correct about Tippett signing on for major coin, meaning an extra senior player has to go this year. The list management committee may look at keeping him as he will be cheap and flexible. And if his form last pre season was correct, they may just have that confidence to keep him.

 

[birdmanptr]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

my thoughts:

Goodwin - 1 year contract
Edwards - 1 year contract
Macca - 1 year contract -play him up forward
Doughty - 1 year contract - to get the tagging jobs with sloane/VB/Cook
Stevens - keep - i thought he played well last night

Shirley - Sorry but time to go
Burton - Sorry but time to go - walker to get more games
Reilly - trade bait
Griff - trade bait
Gill - Gone

recruit: anyone with pace!!!!!

Very good post and agree what about Douglas ??? I say trade bait but not unhappy if we keep him

 

[Riggy1]

Interesting again. So someone who has only played one, two or a maximum of three SANFL leagues games (plenty as a defender) as a forward will line up in the hardest position on the ground. Where as someone who has kicked over 50 goals as a forward will only be a depth player.

Crows train Davis with the Forwards
and in the few quaters here and there with him up forward. I am in the opinion that he will turn into a great CHF. Or at worst a Burton who wont take specky's

IF Walker works on his work-rate, frontal pressure, and stops pushing the limits of giving away a free kick when pushing his opisition away in marking contests, then I can see him in our forward line.

He would probably be in 11 forward lines around the league but he isnt good enough to break into ours and 4 other forward lines (Brisbane, St Kilda and Hawthorn for 1 reason and Geelong's for another reason)

 

[Stiffy_18]

I humbly disagree. If what M23 said is correct about Tippett signing on for major coin, meaning an extra senior player has to go this year. The list management committee may look at keeping him as he will be cheap and flexible. And if his form last pre season was correct, they may just have that confidence to keep him.

If they had confidence in him, he would be signed up by now. Seriously, we announced new 2 year deals for Walker, Armstrong and Jacky not that long ago. Armstrong who is yet to debut and Jacky who has been anything but impressive in his 2 years on the list.

The club sees enough in Jacky to offer him a new 2 year deal. Not one year but 2. Yet Gallman has not been offered one yet.

Lets not talk injuries and form here. Jacky has hardly been on the park this year and when he has, his form has been anything but encouraging!

I think the writing is on the wall for Gallman. We might consider rookie listing him, or redrafting him late if we don't think there is no one better available but I am fairly confident in saying that he will be delisted.

 

[Riggy1]

Look I agree with you that he will be retained but to say he is a great defender is stretching it a bit. He is a good player in the SANFL and will be a good depth player next year and could even become a good AFL player over time if he gets his opportunity but won’t be a great player.


If he was a great defender, why didn’t he go to Nick Salter today? He won the Eagles the game by kicking 5 goals.

yeah, I was probably over stating how good of a defender he is. But for his size he is very, very good against talls, and has the speed to take on smalls. Reminds me alot of Craig Bolton of Sydney

dont know about the SANFL

I was still in Victoria when the game started. Only heard the last 3 quaters on Radio, and I had no idea what the matchups were

Don't get me wrong I like Armstrong however I do not believe that he will be in our round 1 team however I would like to think he will push for selection during the year especially if Macca retires.

Agree on Gallman, he was probably the front runner for Bassett's role before getting injured early however I do not share your thoughts regarding mid size defenders, Otten and Young can both play this role and Stevens and Davis can play tall or the mid size role so we do have plenty of options.

He was pushing for selection this year, without checking the stats, he would of been an emergency for almost all year from about rd 8.

forgot about Young (again) but Otten will probably spend more time in the midfield, which is why I feel we need someone in defence who CAN play big or small.

 

[Elite Crow]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Oh so Edwards the september failure? Or were you referring to Mcleod?

Maybe failures is a bit harsh, but its a fact our senior players have let us down 2 final campaigns running. Remember how many turnovers Macca, Edwards and Goody made against Collingwood last year? Well last night they added to it.

Their saving grace is a weak draft. Will we gain anything by delisting them only to draft some average kids who arent going to make it?

But keeping all 4 will mean they will stifle the development of guys who should be getting a game. And do we really want all 4 to go out in one hit in 2011?

I think 2 will go, most probably Burton and Mcleod/Edwards.

Reilly and Griff should have been traded last year when draft picks would have carried value.

And whilst Symes isnt a senior player, his disposal is too unreliable. He was awful last night. If we are going to be a premiership chance you cant carry players whose errors cost you.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

I thought Symes was one of the players who could be happy with his performance last night.

 

[Bockchoy67]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

I thought Symes was one of the players who could be happy with his performance last night.

Eventually I think Brad will be overtaken by more skilled players, but he was great last night.

 

[taylor_walker_13]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Very good post and agree what about Douglas ??? I say trade bait but not unhappy if we keep him

I thought last night really hurt us not having Douglas especially after we lost knights, as we wll knew Shirley is not an offensive player, so once Knights did his hammy we really needed a Douglas type rather than Shirley.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

B: Davis, Rutten, Johncock
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Goodwin
C: Mackay, Dangerfield, Otten
HF: Knights, Stevens/Hentschel, Edwards/McLeod
F: Porplyzia, Tippett, Walker
1R: Moran, Vince, Thompson
I: Maric, Doughty, Reilly, Sloane

Delist: Gill, Gallman
Retire: Burton, Shirley, Mcleod/Edwards

Need: A quick forward crumber

 

[lincsPJ]

FB: Johncock - Rutten - Stevens
HB: Otten - Bock - Symes
C: van Berlo - Thompson - Mackay
HF: Porps - Hentschel - Knights
FF: Walker - Tippett - Dangerfield
R: Maric - Edwards - Vince
IC: Moran - Reilly - Doughty - Goodwin

EMERG: Sloane - Cook - Sellar - Davis

* #23 to retire
* goody to play on 1 more yr but pass on the captaincy to someone else. most likely VB. possibly thommo. could be truck, but as Roo said earlier this yr, "it's a bit hard to captain the team from full back".
* burton, my guess is as good as anyones. most likely get 1 more yr cotnsidering the time the AFC have put into his rehab and that he did finish this season out. hopefully if the forward line above is fit and firing, burton wont be needed.
* stevens in trouble of losing his spot to davis pretty quick.

 

[cocka]

Finished: Gill, Gallman, Burton, Shirley, McLeod, Hentschel
Trade: Griffin

 

[Gets!]

My views...

Trade-

Griffin - We don't need him. He can have more opportunities elsewhere.
Reilly - really like him as a role model and a person, but has not shown that he can stand up in pressure situations (eg. missing a simple set shot last night)

Retire-

Edwards/Burton/Shirley - that's as precise as I can be. No-one knows apart from the players and possibly the coach what these blokes will do.

De-list-

Gallman.
Gill.

 

[Crows Feet]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Edwards was prob leading the B&F midway through the season. How quickly people forget.

I was thinking that the whole way through the thread. I think for the big 3, B&F night will have a massive impact on THEIR decisions to play on or not. Burton will have his choice made for him. My opinion is he was kept this year as insurance in case Trent didn't come up. At this stage Trent has greater up-side and will be retained. Walker will permanently fill Burton's role next season.

Dogga has potentially overtaken Shirley as our #1 tagger. One of these guys will be moved on and the safe money is on Shirls to go at the mo.

Eventually I think Brad will be overtaken by more skilled players, but he was great last night.

The one thing you can be certain of, regardless of skill, is that Symes will always give 100%. I actually think Craigy should try him out as a tagger - at least in the pre-season.

 

[Crows Feet]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

My side at this stage would look something like this.

B: Johncock, Rutten, Petrenko
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Otten
C: Mackay, Vince, Reilly
HF: Knights, Hentschel, Goodwin
F: Walker, Tippett, Porplyzia
1R: Maric, Dangerfield, Thompson
I: Moran, Doughty, Symes, McLeod/Edwards

Next in: McKernan, Sloane, Sellar, Armstrong, Young, Cook



Explanation:

Minimal tinkering to a side that exceeded most people's expectations this year.
Some of the old guard have been moved on - replaced by youngsters with AFL experience.
I am expecting others to get game time to assist their development but see this as the team for the majority of the year (barring injury).

 

[Vader]

What I would like to see happen...

Goodwin - 1 year contract, captaincy passed to VB
Shirley - retired/delisted
Burton - retired/delisted
Gill - delisted
Gallman - delisted
Hentschel - retained, 1 year contract, depth player
Martin - promoted to senior list
Henderson - consider promoting if sufficient other vacancies open up.
Moss - delist (second guessing the medical report - I think his body is shot)

Griffin, Reilly, Douglas - traded if a fair deal can be arranged, retained (depth) if not.

Edwards & Macca are the two tough ones. They may decide to take things out of the club's hands, by opting to retire of their own volition. I would not be disappointed if this were to happen. My gut feel is that one of them will be asked to retire, given the increased salary demand of retaining Tippett. Which one will go? Your guess is as good as mine.

I'd also like the club to do a bit of an investigation as to why Burton was selected on the weekend when he clearly wasn't fit enough to run out the game. He was clearly over the injury which kept him out from R20-21, but was lacking the fitness required to play at AFL level. We know the club won't risk injured players in finals (Bock), but since when have they played unfit players in finals?

 

[DJ75]

List Management is a very complicated issue and there are many variables that need to be taken into account. The one variable that MUST NOT be considered is sentiment. We have to be brutally honest with ourselves to ensure the next step comes on.

In reality our KP players currently look like:
Tippett
Bock
Rutten
Stevens
Burton
Hentchel
Walker
Davis
McKernan
Young

At this stage we need to get games and development in to Davis, Walker and McKernan. The question is how? Where?
Obviously Walker plays as a forward, which means that one of Stevens, Burton or Hentchel has to make way.
Davis can play if we move Otten into the midfield. So what about McKernan? Does he play as a 2nd ruck? (Would he get a ruck position ahead of Moran and Maric if both were fit?)
We also need to consider backup for injuries. You can't just throw Burton, Hentchel and Stevens out.

Solution:
Out: Hentchel. A terribly tough decision, but one we have to make. Burton still has value as a forward. Stevens can cover back. However, both of these are back up players only. Walker and McKernan to be given chances first.

Young to be left to develop and maybe get a game or two as a fill in if injuries hit.

Sellar: Cannot continue to play as a ruckman. Just not big enough. Imagine the smashing we wouod have copped against Geelong or St. Kilda had we made it that far! Should return to Glenelg and play as either a KPD (my choice) or KPF. For his own development he needs to learn these roles.

The oldies:

Edwards. Looked like Benjamin Button in the first half of the season, but his second half he has become Turnover Tyson. Time has come to say good bye. Sloane to replace.

McLeod. Depends on desire. Needs to be told he will earn his games and that if he continues and doesn't perform he will be dropped. He must play on only if he is willing to accept the goodwill has gone and he is playing under the same rules as a Sloane (for instance).

Goodwin. I'd give one more year and ask that he practice not selling his teammates into trouble with his handballs!

Shirley. Time has come. Better options available.


Other delist options:
Gill. Obviously.


So we have delisted:
Gill
Hentchel
Edwards
Shirley
(perhaps Gallman)

Upgrade:
Martin

Retain:
Henderson
Lee
Donnelly
Schmidt
Moss (delist and then re-rookie)

Tradeable:
Douglas
Reilly
Griffin

Should be able to package up at least two of these for a decent pick (top 15). I'm sure a club like Carlton, who have a host of young players, would be interested in some guys with more experience and something to offer. Hopefully anyway!

This should give 3 picks plus perhaps another one or two from a trade.

It is VITAL that we get games this year in to:
Sloane
Davis
McKernan
Armstrong
Petrenko
Martin (once he returns)
Walker (of course!)


These steps should create some room for our youngsters, whilst maintaining our strength as a team and depth.
Give Rendell 3-4 picks and I'm sure he will snag a gun or two as well.

Add in the development of Tippett (newly signed to a 3 year extension - giving us at least another 4 years), Dangerfield, Mackay etc.. and we will continue the push forwards.

I still say 2011-2012 we will be near unstopable!!

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Eventually I think Brad will be overtaken by more skilled players, but he was great last night.

Yeah I agree. I thought he never gave up. I also thought he was one of the few that didn't give up in Ports GF 2007 debacle. Will never be a top tier player but a very handy, big hearted 2nd tier footballer.

 

[CROW36]

Re: So what now

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but do we need to practice and play 'one-on-one' a lot more next year. Teams are going to keep doing it to us, so we need to be competitive in this scenario.

When the Victorians repeat ad nauseam that the Crows are a well-drilled team, is that code that we can play a zone but can't handle intense one-on-one?

Hell, if we get good at one-on-one, we can turn it against our opposition at will. Wouldn't that be a plan B?

SPOT ON I was wondering if it was just me thinking this way, but I agree, the Pies & the top sides go man on man against us and de-rail us everytime.
Craigy's game plain looks wonderful when it comes off, but when we get badly exposed OVER & OVER again against the pies & still haven't learnt anything I start to wonder if his game plan is to predictable & once our players behind the ball get manned up we dont have a plan B. In fact I said to my wife that night that Malthouse will man up on our players & it will end up being a nail biter.I'm afraid Craig has to do something next year & LEARN NOT TO BE SO STUBBON because like you said, we have to introduce that part of the game into our game plan & hopefully we can also learn to play man on man when we need to because we are going to be known as the team thats very competive & honest but will never quite get there. I love Craigy & the way he developes our youngsters but his finals record is very average & his opions are running out fast because at the end of the day its premierships that count.