Changes v Bombers

[lunacy]

What if Brad Moran ends up being a closer comparison?

I know you have a problem with calling guys 'soft' and I agree that it takes guts just to walk out on to a footy field at the elite level. But there will always be guys who, for whatever reason, never become comfortable with the idea of putting their body on the line and attacking a contest, whether in the air or on the ground. Not a lot of these guys survive particularly long at the top level. Whether Jenkins joins this group or improves this part of his game is largely up to him, though I do agree that the coaches will need to help him fix his mindset. I disagree that it's an issue stemming from his basketball background, however. Tippett was a basketballer, too, yet his attack on the ball was never an issue. Ben Hudson was in the same boat - he knew how to use his size very early on. Meanwhile, Moran came from a rugby background, yet we all remember how he played. Aggression and intensity aren't AFL specific qualities. While it can take time to optimally use them on an AFL field, it's generally easy to tell an aggressive player from a passive one pretty early on.

I don't think anyone is writing Jenkins off yet. But he's showing a pretty serious flaw of the kind that could render him basically a liability in finals football if left unaddressed. When the pressure is high, as it was last week, everyone needs to be attacking the contest when it's their turn. There is no doubt he has talent and tremendous scope but he really needs to start attacking the football. He's barely even crumbing at the moment, just receiving. As such, I'd be comfortable with us dropping him, as it's a lesson he can learn at SANFL level, if not for the present AFL trend of requiring a forward or defender who can backup your lead ruckman. His confidence seems particularly low right now, for whatever reason, so it's up to the coaches to address this, and get him on track towards improvement. Sometimes dropping a guy for a few games can do him a world of good...

I think all of us see enough in the guy to want him to make it. There is simply too much to work with there to not pursue him as a potential long-term player. But his mindset, for whatever reason, is wrong and his athleticism will not make up for this in finals or pressure games.

It's funny how many (particularly Dandy) who have rapidly lost faith in Jenkins. No doubt he played horrible against Freo, but who didn't? And the other 2 tall forwards did as well.

His game on the weekend wasn't his best and he looked low on confidence and a couple of his contests were not good enough. However, I don't think it has anything to do with him being soft or non competitive. I think it wa more poor judgement/hesitation due to a momentary drop off in confidence. There has never been cause in the past to call him soft. He just isn't reading the aerial ball as well at the moment.

All the Mckernen lovers would be spruiking about a game consisting of 2 goal, 14 possession, 5 mark, 4 goal assists (2nd in afl this round). This was apparently Jenkins 'deplorable' game. Looking forward to his good games.

 

[Cap]

It's funny how many (particularly Dandy) who have rapidly lost faith in Jenkins. No doubt he played horrible against Freo, but who didn't? And the other 2 tall forwards did as well.

His game on the weekend wasn't his best and he looked low on confidence and a couple of his contests were not good enough. However, I don't think it has anything to do with him being soft or non competitive. I think it wa more poor judgement/hesitation due to a momentary drop off in confidence. There has never been cause in the past to call him soft. He just isn't reading the aerial ball as well at the moment.

All the Mckernen lovers would be spruiking about a game consisting of 2 goal, 14 possession, 5 mark, 4 goal assists (2nd in afl this round). This was apparently Jenkins 'deplorable' game. Looking forward to his good games.

I always thought having players like Jenkins and Betts would test most Crows supporters patience

but not to this degree.

 

[NTRabbit]

There was a guy near me at the game who very vocally hated Jenkins with the fire of a thousand novas, and when Jenkins dropped that mark I fully expected his head to explode, and the now headless body to run onto the field and start kicking Jenkins until he was delisted.

When he marked and kicked that long goal he stopped, and as Jenkins worked his way into the game he remained silent on the subject.

Jenkins had a shit game against Freo, everyone did, including Pods and Walker. Jenkins had a shit first half on Sunday, and so did Walker, mostly because the Kangas defenders were allowed to do whatever they pleased all game, the scragging going on there would have made Darren Glass blush. Pods was only free of it on account of him being the one of the trio given the most licence/instruction to run up the ground. Jenkins wasn't great, but he was better in the second half and contributed. Doubt he's going anywhere just yet, especially since McKernan continues to offer nothing of any actual value in the SANFL beyond easy lower league hit outs.

 

[40porpoise]

What if Brad Moran ends up being a closer comparison?

I know you have a problem with calling guys 'soft' and I agree that it takes guts just to walk out on to a footy field at the elite level. But there will always be guys who, for whatever reason, never become comfortable with the idea of putting their body on the line and attacking a contest, whether in the air or on the ground. Not a lot of these guys survive particularly long at the top level. Whether Jenkins joins this group or improves this part of his game is largely up to him, though I do agree that the coaches will need to help him fix his mindset. I disagree that it's an issue stemming from his basketball background, however. Tippett was a basketballer, too, yet his attack on the ball was never an issue. Ben Hudson was in the same boat - he knew how to use his size very early on. Meanwhile, Moran came from a rugby background, yet we all remember how he played. Aggression and intensity aren't AFL specific qualities. While it can take time to optimally use them on an AFL field, it's generally easy to tell an aggressive player from a passive one pretty early on.

I don't think anyone is writing Jenkins off yet. But he's showing a pretty serious flaw of the kind that could render him basically a liability in finals football if left unaddressed. When the pressure is high, as it was last week, everyone needs to be attacking the contest when it's their turn. There is no doubt he has talent and tremendous scope but he really needs to start attacking the football. He's barely even crumbing at the moment, just receiving. As such, I'd be comfortable with us dropping him, as it's a lesson he can learn at SANFL level, if not for the present AFL trend of requiring a forward or defender who can backup your lead ruckman. His confidence seems particularly low right now, for whatever reason, so it's up to the coaches to address this, and get him on track towards improvement. Sometimes dropping a guy for a few games can do him a world of good...

I think all of us see enough in the guy to want him to make it. There is simply too much to work with there to not pursue him as a potential long-term player. But his mindset, for whatever reason, is wrong and his athleticism will not make up for this in finals or pressure games.

Shit I forgot about Brad Moran. Anyway, please don't compare him to Jenkins. I think Jenkins has shown in the past he has the required aggression and ruthlessness to put his body on the line (eg see last year v nth melbourne with 30 seconds left). Plus he is naturally gifted athletically and has a great skill set. If he continues his season average he's on track for 44+ goals for the year..

 

[Bailey01]

What if Brad Moran ends up being a closer comparison?

I know you have a problem with calling guys 'soft' and I agree that it takes guts just to walk out on to a footy field at the elite level. But there will always be guys who, for whatever reason, never become comfortable with the idea of putting their body on the line and attacking a contest, whether in the air or on the ground. Not a lot of these guys survive particularly long at the top level. Whether Jenkins joins this group or improves this part of his game is largely up to him, though I do agree that the coaches will need to help him fix his mindset. I disagree that it's an issue stemming from his basketball background, however. Tippett was a basketballer, too, yet his attack on the ball was never an issue. Ben Hudson was in the same boat - he knew how to use his size very early on. Meanwhile, Moran came from a rugby background, yet we all remember how he played. Aggression and intensity aren't AFL specific qualities. While it can take time to optimally use them on an AFL field, it's generally easy to tell an aggressive player from a passive one pretty early on.

I don't think anyone is writing Jenkins off yet. But he's showing a pretty serious flaw of the kind that could render him basically a liability in finals football if left unaddressed. When the pressure is high, as it was last week, everyone needs to be attacking the contest when it's their turn. There is no doubt he has talent and tremendous scope but he really needs to start attacking the football. He's barely even crumbing at the moment, just receiving. As such, I'd be comfortable with us dropping him, as it's a lesson he can learn at SANFL level, if not for the present AFL trend of requiring a forward or defender who can backup your lead ruckman. His confidence seems particularly low right now, for whatever reason, so it's up to the coaches to address this, and get him on track towards improvement. Sometimes dropping a guy for a few games can do him a world of good...

I think all of us see enough in the guy to want him to make it. There is simply too much to work with there to not pursue him as a potential long-term player. But his mindset, for whatever reason, is wrong and his athleticism will not make up for this in finals or pressure games.

****, he has a bad game vs freo and a bad first half against the kangas and suddenly you compare the way he plays to an actual spud. I guess some supporters forget that he kicked 17 goals up into round 9 including 3 bags of 4..............

 

[Dandy_GO]

Okay once again you're taking the Brad Moran comparison the wrong way. I'm not suggesting he's in any way as bad as Brad was, just that Moran never addressed his poor attack on the ball and thus his early potential was never reached. Meesen is another example, as are a whole host of other characters. My point is that it's all well and good to play as Jenkins does when we're up and about, but he needs to fire up and attack the ball too. People often talk about the importance of having strong key forwards in finals, where your mids don't have time for perfect delivery. Jenkins, right now, even in his good games, isn't playing a style that will do him any favours in finals footy.

I have not once suggested we give up on him, just that he is currently deserving of criticism and possibly being sent a message through being dropped, as it's my view that his flaws are entirely to do with his mental approach to games. I want him to address this and become a truly dangerous, potentially elite, player.

I really shouldn't have made the Brad Moran part the first line of my post because apparently some people don't read past that.

 

[King Elvis]

Jenkins is one of the biggest, strongest players in our side.

I've said it a million times - when you're that big, and that strong, even if you're having a shit day and nothing is going your way, you can still impact the contest.

He doesn't - he rarely crashes packs or throws his weight around.

If he can sort that out, he'll be one of the premier forward in the competition.

I agree, but I'd throw Otten in there too. Realistically we're going to play with 7 defenders most of the time. Otten has been an absolute rock since returning. Criminally underrated on this board.

I guess so, but my concern is that if Otten replaces one of those guys, it makes us a little slow. Playing 7 though, you're right, there is a spot for him, or Jaensch; horses for courses would be my suggestion.

Also, not sure about Smith into the middle. He's arguably our best player at present, playing a HBF/Wing type role - I'd rather get other players in the middle and keep him where he is.

 

[Tex200]

Spot on King - dont want to see Smith moved. Currently on track for AA half back ang giving us enormous drive.

Most importantly knows his role. Changing to mids brings a whole different role for him to become accustomed to. Different demands, set plays, running patterns etc etc.

Lets just leave him and spend next pre season schooling him for the mid move.

 

[Vader]

Sub rule sucks, stuffs 1 player around every week. Gillon, make your mark and get rid of it!

There's not a snowball's chance in Hell of it being axed, because it's doing exactly what it's designed to do - reducing the impact of losing an injured player, by providing a replacement. It's actually been one of the more successful rule changes the AFL has introduced, along with the 2nd circle at the centre bounces.

 

[Coopers]

having said that, I think it's a matchup that'll favour you guys as our midfield have a habit of lobbing the ball on our forwards head (or over it) rather than putting it out in front.

Are our mid-fields training together or something?

 

[pjcrows]

I like Jenkins a lot. A lot.

But against Fremantle he lacked a physical presence, and seeing him live on Saturday night against the Roos he did way too much ball-watching.

Still pretty raw but he needs to consistently hit contests, even when he's having a bad day.

 

[Heafy83]

There's not a snowball's chance in Hell of it being axed, because it's doing exactly what it's designed to do - reducing the impact of losing an injured player, by providing a replacement. It's actually been one of the more successful rule changes the AFL has introduced, along with the 2nd circle at the centre bounces.

Spot on Vadar. I hated it when it first came in but can see its validity now. One of the better rule changes I agree.

 

[pjcrows]

Take Smith out of our backline and we are left with solid plodders who can't kick.

 

[Heafy83]

Just saw what Brad Crouch did. WTF was he thinking. Coach and players would have every right to be pissed off with him. Lets hope he learns from it.

I actually saw him walk into the ground on Sat night. I thought he looked a bit sheepish. Probably knew he had let the team down.

 

[King Elvis]

Funny stuff from Crouch

Sub-rule sucks.

One of our best wins was against Port when we were half a side down. I like those wins against all odds; if someone gets hurt, bad luck.

 

[dylan123]

There's not a snowball's chance in Hell of it being axed, because it's doing exactly what it's designed to do - reducing the impact of losing an injured player, by providing a replacement. It's actually been one of the more successful rule changes the AFL has introduced, along with the 2nd circle at the centre bounces.

But it can also be argued that's exactly what the cap on rotations will do. It means team x can't interchange 4 guys as much as they want while team y can only do the same with 3. With that cap it means team y just does them more frequently in which both teams are now trying to stay under the 120 mark.

So with that in place, I don't see any real need for the sub rule to stay.

Also -

The AFL is open to scrapping the substitute rule, according to football operations manager Mark Evans.
The sub rule was introduced in 2011 in a bid to slow the game down and offset the disadvantage teams faced when a player was lost to injury.

However Evans told SEN a tightening of the interchange cap could make the green and red vests redundant.

The current rotation limit of 120 per match is locked in for two seasons, but it is widely expected to be cut to 80 in a bid to also reduce congestion on the field.

"If somewhere in the future interchange numbers came down and part of the answer was to give the sub back that might be something that will be considered," Evans said.

http://www.sportal.com.au/afl/news/afl-could-abandon-sub-rule/lj9jttwnwn1e1u9ycyy8qzsvx

 

[Vader]

But it can also be argued that's exactly what the cap on rotations will do. It means team x can't interchange 4 guys as much as they want while team y can only do the same with 3. With that cap it means team y just does them more frequently in which both teams are now trying to stay under the 120 mark.

Could work if they drop the interchange limit to around 80, as mentioned in that quote. Definitely won't happen while the limit remains at 120.

I'm not too sure that the coaches will be happy if/when the interchange limit drops though.

 

[headache1]

Just saw what Brad Crouch did. WTF was he thinking. Coach and players would have every right to be pissed off with him. Lets hope he learns from it.

I actually saw him walk into the ground on Sat night. I thought he looked a bit sheepish. Probably knew he had let the team down.

Got a link to the footage mate?

 

[Heafy83]

Got a link to the footage mate?

No sorry just saw some footage on tv

 

[dylan123]

I'm not too sure that the coaches will be happy if/when the interchange limit drops though.

Since when has that stopped them with bringing in a rule before?

To me, it seemed pretty obvious that the 120 cap was just to get their foot in the door in which they'll now look at reducing as they continue to mess with the game to try and get it played the way they like.

 

[headache1]

No sorry just saw some footage on tv

Just found it on the SANFL channel.

Around the 24min 25sec mark. Dumb from Crouchy...

 

[CIDA]

Except if people actually watched Jaensch instead of assuming he was poor defensively (like last year), they would realise that he's actually much improved in this area, to the point that he is at the very least competent. He's had one bad defensive game all year, to say he is still a liability is ridiculous.

Hardly a ridiculous opinion. His run and disposal has improved tenfold this year and in that aspect he has been impressive. I think people are more forgiving for his lapses due to this. He was poor defensively on more than one occasion - Geelong, Sydney, Port Adelaide. However, the point remains - 3 small defenders is too many.

 

[1990crow]

Spot on Vadar. I hated it when it first came in but can see its validity now. One of the better rule changes I agree.

What are your thoughts on two subs? One more that can only be used if there is an injury.

 

[Heafy83]

What are your thoughts on two subs? One more that can only be used if there is an injury.

No I think the balance is right now. Its very rare a team will have more than 1 injury a game.

 

[King Elvis]

Subs are the worst.

Cap interchange at 25 a quarter and get rid of the subs.