Prediction Changes vs Brisbane

[Scorpus]

Gotta love this attitude.

DABM (and others) have a stereotype which says that DMac is constantly ragdolled and incapable of laying a tackle. Stats, as recorded by Champion Data, reveal that he's actually one of the most prolific tacklers at the club. With 4.2 tackles per game, he actually has 7th highest average for tackles per game all season. The 4 tackles he laid against Essendon makes him equal 5th highest for that game. This directly contradicts the stereotype.

Solution: Don't at any costs admit that you're wrong, and that the stereotype is incorrect. Instead, change the definition of a tackle, to something you find more palatable and which (you hope) would result in Dmac having a lower tackle count, thus allowing you to argue that your (completely bogus) stereotype is actually correct.

Good grief.. What a load of bollocks.

7th highest for tackles is shit.

The highest tacklers are basically all midfielders, and Mackay is a mid, so he'd be behind 6 other midfielders at tackling: practically the entire midfield.

He's also third highest for pressure acts. So this indicates his pressure doesn't usually translate into tackles, unlike our other players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

As I said.. anything to avoid admitting that the stereotype is wrong.

Maybe we're wrong and the player knocked over by the football and brutalised by 70kg schoolkid Darcy Parish actually lays bone crunching tackles when we're not watching

 

[Archie87]

IMHO sometimes Bran Nue Mackae looks better on the tellie than in real life.

In the 4th quarter against Essendon, the Bombers switched the ball across the ground to Parish. Bran Nue Mackae was lurking and watching it live he appeared to have time to at least put pressure on Parish. He chose to remain a step away from Parish which initially appeared to be an inspired decision because the ball slipped through Parish's hands. Instead of attacking the ball Bran Nue Mackae allowed THE HULK (18 year old, 2 gamer Aaron Francis) to take possession of the ball and then laid a huge tackle which Francis broke through and Essendon subsequently kicked a goal.

I ask other posters who were in the Western Stand (it happened right in front of me......) whether I misinterpreted what happened. The vision on the tellie was not as damning but several fans around me expressed their "delight" towards BNM when it happened.

I watched it in the western stand then the replay too. Mackay actually initially has FRONT position against Parish and has a direct line to the ball. He chooses to run at a slight diagonal AWAY from the ball whereas Parish gets front on to the ball and runs in a straight line for it. Mackay, who no longer has his body behind the ball properly, does his piddly desperate arm stretched out thing, gets a dodgy bounce and Parish bumps him off it.

All he had to do was get his body behind the ball and pick the bloody thing up or at least paddle it towards the boundary for a bit until help arrived. If he gets tackled, at worst he gives a free away which would delay proceedings thus allowing numbers to get back.

 

[fabs33]

Gotta love this attitude.

DABM (and others) have a stereotype which says that DMac is constantly ragdolled and incapable of laying a tackle. Stats, as recorded by Champion Data, reveal that he's actually one of the most prolific tacklers at the club. With 4.2 tackles per game, he actually has 7th highest average for tackles per game all season. The 4 tackles he laid against Essendon makes him equal 5th highest for that game. This directly contradicts the stereotype.

Solution: Don't at any costs admit that you're wrong, and that the stereotype is incorrect. Instead, change the definition of a tackle, to something you find more palatable and which (you hope) would result in Dmac having a lower tackle count, thus allowing you to argue that your (completely bogus) stereotype is actually correct.

Good grief.. What a load of bollocks.

This may seem odd considering I have been and am critical of Mackay, but I actually agree with you on this one, in that I really believe Mackay is a good tackler. In fact he had a great tackle against Carlton recently which has stuck in my mind for a while now.

In my view Mackay's biggest weakness is his lack of strength which impacts on his ability to influence situations where there is physical contact between players, that said tackling is one of the few areas of contested play where technique can overcome a lack of size/strength. Rory Laird and Charlie Cameron are among the best tacklers at our club and much like Mackay they are both rather small and light, granted Charlie is quite strong for his size, there is a limit to what that strength of his can do. The reason these guys are good at tackling is because of the way they do it, they are adept at wrapping their opponents arms to prevent a hand pass and because maintaining your feet in this situation is not required they can also employ their weight as compensation for any lack of strength by dropping to the ground and bringing their opponents with them.

Unfortunately for Mackay most of the other areas of contested play, if not all of them, require strength and the ability to keep one's feet so he struggles with them. For example when he's the one being tackled he normally isn't able to make a hand pass that's creative, it's often just a hot potato style pass where he's off balance and has to quickly dispose of it before he hits the turf which are all too frequent because he's so easily brought to ground. On the other hand our captain would be an excellent example of the opposite in this regard as he's always got that split second extra to hold on to the ball while he looks for the best option courtesy of his great strength and size, and there are other good hand passers at our club who aren't behemoths like our Tex such as Lyons who are just very clever and have that poise and awareness under pressure that few players do. And then there are those embarrassing situations when the ball is in dispute like those passages of play against Parish and Wright, but they where obvious and as such require no commentary.

Altogether on the subject of tackling I can't say I have any concerns with Mackay, I just wish he was stronger in all the other areas.

 

[Jack is Back]

I watched it in the western stand then the replay too. Mackay actually initially has FRONT position against Parish and has a direct line to the ball. He chooses to run at a slight diagonal AWAY from the ball whereas Parish gets front on to the ball and runs in a straight line for it. Mackay, who no longer has his body behind the ball properly, does his piddly desperate arm stretched out thing, gets a dodgy bounce and Parish bumps him off it.

All he had to do was get his body behind the ball and pick the bloody thing up or at least paddle it towards the boundary for a bit until help arrived. If he gets tackled, at worst he gives a free away which would delay proceedings thus allowing numbers to get back.

Yep, that's basically how I remember it.

Are there any DMac fans that saw this from the Western Stand and would like to dispute our recollection?

 

[BRL121]

I would love to see CEY get a run this week, but I can't help but feel that Pyke will stick with Mookay.

In: Walker, ROB
Out: Jacobs, Thompson

So, Pyke is a liar?

 

[fabs33]

Wigg - Feel he's a bit overhyped on here (although I'm yet to actually see him play myself) but it would be nice to get a look at him and see whether he's capable of finding the ball enough at AFL level to make the most of his kicking skills.

Got to admit the bolded part did make me chuckle.

"I've never seen player X play, but everyone's opinion about him is wrong anyway."

 

[Coopers]

So which would you prefer,

 

[Elite Crow]

Leigh Matthews was saying on 5AA last night that tackle stats published included effective and ineffective tackles. Interesting to see what the break up for MacKay is. Also doesn't include missed tackles.

Interesting to see if Vader addresses this post

 

[dogs105]

*backs away slowly*

 

[SloaneysDanger]

A resting spree? What resting spree?

Tex and Sauce were injured and so were taken out of the team accordingly. They are 2 of our most important players and so need to be at 100%. I dont care if Tex is at 97% fitness for this week, he still doesn't play for mine. There is absolutely 0 reason to field him against ****ing Brisbane... Thommo is 34 and needs to be managed. He's also slow and unaccountable but the club refuses to see that, so for now at least we get to see the midfield with a bit of a shake up.

So we have rested 1 x 34 year old, with 2 injured players coming out as they should. Resting spree hey?

I only mentioned resting ONE of Sloane or Betts mainly because they do an absolute mountain of work each and every week. Sloane carries our midfield and Betts is probably our most used target going inside 50. Who knows what sort of knock or soreness these guys could be playing with, we dont have information to that. Betts is 29 now and has barely missed a game for us, meanwhile I've noticed that Sloane has been wearing shoulder tape from the midpoint of the season onwards.

It honestly would do the club 0 harm in leaving one of Sloane/Betts at home for the Perth trip, the result is still going to be the same.

You think Tex should be rested further but if he's fit to play then he plays, right? Same goes for Sauce next week.

Like I already said - Sloane and Betts don't need rests. Look at their history of games played in a season; they clearly don't need rests as they're not injured very often.

Everyone has 'knocks' or 'soreness' at this time of year mate but you don't rest everyone with that do you.

Also no game is a guarantee at this time of the season. Having a mindset like that can cost a team.

 

[relapse]

So, Pyke is a liar?

So who drops for Walker ?

As much as I would love to see Mookay dropped, I just can't see it happening and then the question is whether Seedsman deserved to be dropped to bring CEY in ?

 

[xazos79]

Stats sheet only records effective tackles. You would be wrong.

Looks like i may well be. He's about 9th. Which is surprising. If only they had a "knocked off the ball" stat, he'd be leading the club with hendo a close second.

 

[Freewayflyer]

Yeah that's true, Wigg isnt a "Mackay link type player". Instead of blazing away blindly down the line, Wigg would hit up a team mate 30 metres on the chest

Milera would do the exact same thing. God damn these youngsters for being too good that they ruin our "link-up play" and "structures" that David Mackay is currently upholding...

Come on mate, Mackay doesn't always blaze blindly down the line, he regularly tries to hit up the opposition spare with a laser like bomb.

 

[dylan123]

Got to admit the bolded part did make me chuckle.

"I've never seen player X play, but everyone's opinion about him is wrong anyway."

I dare say the large majority screaming for his selection are in the same boat

 

[BRL121]

So who drops for Walker ?

As much as I would love to see Mookay dropped, I just can't see it happening and then the question is whether Seedsman deserved to be dropped to bring CEY in ?

Yes, thats the big question. Logically, it should be whoever came in when Walker went out, since that wasn't like-for-like.

 

[1970crow]

Gotta love this attitude.

DABM (and others) have a stereotype which says that DMac is constantly ragdolled and incapable of laying a tackle. Stats, as recorded by Champion Data, reveal that he's actually one of the most prolific tacklers at the club. With 4.2 tackles per game, he actually has 7th highest average for tackles per game all season. The 4 tackles he laid against Essendon makes him equal 5th highest for that game. This directly contradicts the stereotype.

Solution: Don't at any costs admit that you're wrong, and that the stereotype is incorrect. Instead, change the definition of a tackle, to something you find more palatable and which (you hope) would result in Dmac having a lower tackle count, thus allowing you to argue that your (completely bogus) stereotype is actually correct.

Good grief.. What a load of bollocks.

Actually you've got it exactly ass-about. Mackay misses a fair portion of tackles where an opponent has some pace up and he also rarely catches guys he's chasing, despite his 'speed'. If he's off balance to any extent he lacks power to stick tackles. To contradict this observation the Mackay fans will use his tackle stats as the only evidence. However, these are irrelevant because they don't differentiate between the situations that lead to an effective tackle being recorded. Spackler has identified a specific tackling area that Mackay struggles with and you are quoting generic tackle stats to contradict him.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Actually you've got it exactly ass-about. Mackay misses a fair portion of tackles where an opponent has some pace up and he also rarely catches guys he's chasing, despite his 'speed'. If he's off balance to any extent he lacks power to stick tackles. To contradict this observation the Mackay fans will use his tackle stats as the only evidence. However, these are irrelevant because they don't differentiate between the situations that lead to an effective tackle being recorded. Spackler has identified a specific tackling area that Mackay struggles with and you are quoting generic tackle stats to contradict him.

There is no doubt he attempts a lot of tackles! But he ****en hardly sticks one!!!

 

[xazos79]

7th highest for tackles is shit.

The highest tacklers are basically all midfielders, and Mackay is a mid, so he'd be behind 6 other midfielders at tackling: practically the entire midfield.

He's also third highest for pressure acts. So this indicates his pressure doesn't usually translate into tackles, unlike our other players.

Good points, and with his DE you'd almost expect him to be 50/50 with contentested/uncontested possessions. He isn't, 2/3s of his possies are uncontested.

 

[1970crow]

Got to admit the bolded part did make me chuckle.

"I've never seen player X play, but everyone's opinion about him is wrong anyway."

He did say it was a feeling not a view. But yeh, chuckled myself.

 

[Vader]

Against Essendon, did Mackay get brushed aside with ease by Darcy Parish, a 73kg rookie, or didn't he?

Did he also lay 4 effective tackles, with only 4 of his teammates laying more?

 

[Vader]

Yes, thats the big question. Logically, it should be whoever came in when Walker went out, since that wasn't like-for-like.

In which case it's Seedsman or Mackay - probably Seedsman.

 

[Vader]

7th highest for tackles is shit.

The highest tacklers are basically all midfielders, and Mackay is a mid, so he'd be behind 6 other midfielders at tackling: practically the entire midfield.

He's also third highest for pressure acts. So this indicates his pressure doesn't usually translate into tackles, unlike our other players.

Most of the players ahead of him on the tackle count are inside mids. The only exception is Cameron, who is noted for having exceptionally good tackling skills.

Mackay averages the same number of tackles as Seedsman. He averages more than Douglas, Smith, VB, Milera, Henderson, Brown, Laird, Atkins or Cheney. In other words, he's behind the inside mids, but ahead of almost all of the small-mid sized defenders and outside mids.

In other words, you're talking out your posterior.

 

[Vader]

There is no doubt he attempts a lot of tackles! But he ****en hardly sticks one!!!

Here we go again.. the stereotypical response, which is 100% incorrect - and demonstrably so, given his tackle stats.

 

[Scorpus]

Most of the players ahead of him on the tackle count are inside mids. The only exception is Cameron, who is noted for having exceptionally good tackling skills.

Mackay averages the same number of tackles as Seedsman. He averages more than Douglas, Smith, VB, Milera, Henderson, Brown, Laird, Atkins or Cheney. In other words, he's behind the inside mids, but ahead of almost all of the small-mid sized defenders and outside mids.

In other words, you're talking out your posterior.

So how would you explain the discrepancy between his average tackles and average pressure acts? Surely someone who applies a lot of pressure would also tackle a lot