Opinion Changes vs Hawks OUT: Ryan Cox IN: Deluca McCarthy

[Joao]

Pav didn't like Harvey's poor communication

Well that is a very bad trait for a leader. Especially so when dealing with young men/women. Minds at that age are way to malleable and require the right messaging.

Also people who can't communicate properly are ****ing annoying to deal with in general.

 

[ydraw]

Well that is a very bad trait for a leader. Especially so when dealing with young men/women. Minds at that age are way to malleable and require the right messaging.

Also people who can't communicate properly are ****ing annoying to deal with in general.

More specifically I think Pav said that in the last half a season that Harvey coached, he was coming up with some out of the box tactics and strategies and a lot of players didn't really understand them very well.

 

[Cobbler]

Tabs is clearly doing or not doing something he shouldn't/needs to. Lets be honest, he has dominated for Peel before, come in and shown a little bit and then gone to complete water more than once before. I am fairly sure I have seen one of the anti-Lyon pro-Tabs brigade from this thread use the
"doing something the same way over and over and expecting the same result is crazy"
adage on another thread. Perhaps this is the exact phenomenon we are experiencing with Tabs. Clearly he hasn't put it together at AFL level and maybe they are making him change something fundamental to give Tabs and the team the best chance of being successful.

There is no way we can know for sure what the problem is, but I'll be blown away if any of you try to tell me Tabs doesn't have significant flaws. I also personally don't care if the forward structure is not perfect yet because we are not trying to win the flag this year. The forward line is the last thing that clicks generally.

I actually also think that playing a smaller forward line should *theoretically* force our players to lower their eyes. They have enough trouble doing this as it is. Imagine if they had 1 or 2 200cm blokes to plonk it on.

I like Tabs, but something for him needs to change. I am backing Ross and the coaches on this one.

Listen I'm the first one to back Taberner. Is he AFL standard? In an ideal world probably not.

If we had other legitimate options? Highly likely not.

But I can't stand integrity of selection BS when our team is crying out for a tall and Taberner 100% deserves another opportunity. We're playing a small forward line and any time the ball is in the air it's a write off because McCarthy leaps from 4 back and has the hands of a brickwall and Kersten competes in the contest about as fiercely as a tickle competition with my 5 year old.

Say what you want about Taberner and his failure to do what Ross is wanting. But I'd love Ross or anyone to highlight what Kersten, Suban and Ballantyne are bringing.

The hypocrisy is beyond astounding. How are 2 performing and ready to pop and doing the teams things and one that is performing getting ridiculed.

Once someone can actually highlight what Kersten has brought I'm happy to move on.

 

[Joao]

More specifically I think Pav said that in the last half a season that Harvey coached, he was coming up with some out of the box tactics and strategies and a lot of players didn't really understand them very well.

Its a shame because creativity is a great trait. It is of course useless to a coach if you can't get the message to the players. Pretty sure that is/one of Buckley's problem.

 

[Kram]

 

[greatgatsby]

Some panic stricken stuff in this thread. I must have missed the point at which Matt Taberner became Steve Kernahan.

 

[imperial_oz]

Well that is a very bad trait for a leader. Especially so when dealing with young men/women. Minds at that age are way to malleable and require the right messaging.

Also people who can't communicate properly are ****ing annoying to deal with in general.

I'd agree. An effective leader needs to be a good communicator but I would say Harvey had better balance in his game plan. He had both attack and defence. Lyon is too much defence and not enough attack

 

[ydraw]

I like Tabs, but something for him needs to change. I am backing Ross and the coaches on this one.

Why?

Ross Lyon has consistently coached the lowest scoring team in the AFL the entire time he's been an AFL coach. Why would you back his opinion on how to build a forward line? Especially when it's basically the opposite to how every other coach in the AFL does it, and all those coaches manage to score more than Lyon?

What makes you think Lyon is right and everyone else is wrong? It's certainly not results on the board, because Lyon has an abysmal record when it comes to coaching teams in how to kick goals.

Our forward line was dysfunctional in 2013 and it's still dysfunctional now. The only time in the past 5 years our forward line was any good was when we had Pavlich, Taberner and Zac Clarke all playing in the same forward line.

On the weekend we kicked 5 goals from over 50 forward entires. That is pathetic by any measure.

 

[salim malik]

Not to mention that deliberately ******* up your forward structure so you lose is a terrible way to develop a young team.

If we're deliberately tanking by refusing to pick a forward structure the match committee should be sacked immediately.

FFS ,what makes you the expert on forward structures . Its a work in progress . Its a rebuild year, get used to it.

 

[youmewe]

Sadly the latter is also Freo's forward line entry approach.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

The melts if Collins plays forward over Tabs will be immense. Just got the popcorn maker out of the cupboard.

Don't worry about the butter or salt, the tears streaming down ydraw's cheeks will provide all the oilt/salty goodness you'll need.

 

[Joao]

Listen I'm the first one to back Taberner. Is he AFL standard? In an ideal world probably not.

If we had other legitimate options? Highly likely not.

But I can't stand integrity of selection BS when our team is crying out for a tall and Taberner 100% deserves another opportunity. We're playing a small forward line and any time the ball is in the air it's a write off because McCarthy leaps from 4 back and has the hands of a brickwall and Kersten competes in the contest about as fiercely as a tickle competition with my 5 year old.

Say what you want about Taberner and his failure to do what Ross is wanting. But I'd love Ross or anyone to highlight what Kersten, Suban and Ballantyne are bringing.

The hypocrisy is beyond astounding. How are 2 performing and ready to pop and doing the teams things and one that is performing getting ridiculed.

Once someone can actually highlight what Kersten has brought I'm happy to move on.

The issue with this is you are assuming you know what metrics they use to judge each player. I would be very surprised if each player didn't have different and specific KPIs to meet. As unfashionable as it sounds, this is how Mayne got a gig 2 years after not kicking a goal and Suban continues to get one. Probably also the reason why Tabs kickin 11.0 over two weeks isn't enough. I don't have a nuanced enough feel for the game to ID what it is but I bet there is something that he just doesn't get right but Ross feels is essential for his role.

Whilst I find it frustrating that "spuds" get games over others, I have no doubt this is because the others aren't doing what they are told they need to. It's horrible as a supporter because we have no idea what the KPIs are, but they will be there.

 

[Kram]

I'd agree. An effective leader needs to be a good communicator but I would say Harvey had better balance in his game plan. He had both attack and defence. Lyon is too much defence and not enough attack

Was that the game plan that got us to blow a 50 point half time lead?

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Also, #culture.

On GT-I9506 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ydraw]

The issue with this is you are assuming you know what metrics they use to judge each player.

If their metrics rate Kersten ahead of Taberner then their metrics are wrong. I don't really care what they are.

As unfashionable as it sounds, this is how Mayne got a gig 2 years after not kicking a goal and Suban continues to get one.

Mayne lasted 3 games without Ross Lyon's protective umbrella and hasn't played AFL since. His career is basically over. Suban wouldn't get a game at any other team either.

They are classic Ross Lyon role players that only Ross Lyon would play, because Ross Lyon - like Chris Mayne - likes tackles more than goals.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Sucks but not the biggest deal
Who takes second ruck duties?

Taberner.

Oh, wait...

 

[imperial_oz]

Was that the game plan that got us to blow a 50 point half time lead?

Dunno. Maybe it was as bad a game plan that got us creamed by 100 points against Adelaide a few weeks back

 

[Kram]

Dunno. Maybe it was as bad a game plan that got us creamed by 100 points against Adelaide a few weeks back

Or the one where Freo only managed to kick 1 goal for an entire game in Adelaide?

 

[salim malik]

If their metrics rate Kersten ahead of Taberner then their metrics are wrong. I don't really care what they are.



Mayne lasted 3 games without Ross Lyon's protective umbrella and hasn't played AFL since. His career is basically over. Suban wouldn't get a game at any other team either.

Kersten gets a game because Ross wants to give you the shits.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

FFS ,what makes you the expert on forward structures . Its a work in progress . Its a rebuild year, get used to it.

Rebuild or not....hard to tell given that we've technically been rebuilding since after the Carlton game last year, we have no forward structure to speak of and if you're happy with mediocrity in that regard, that is your prerogative but **** me, some of us would actually like to see some semblance of a forward structure with integrity of selection which once again has been compromised.

By the by, if you're truly happy with mediocrity (seems like you are) then that says more about you than people who actually demand excellence or some sort of progress towards it.

 

[E Shed]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

 

[imperial_oz]

Or the one where Freo only managed to kick 1 goal for an entire game in Adelaide?

You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.

That game wasn't a few weeks back was it?

Should I use smaller words for you?

 

[Righteo]

Im starting to hate Ross Lyon, is that bad ??

Probably. At the end of the day, footy is just a game.

Was that the game plan that got us to blow a 50 point half time lead?

Also involved playing Rhys Palmer anywhere but in the guts. He was playing at FF at times.

 

[Kram]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

When they were stupid enough to make that ridiculous O'Meara trade, no.

 

[Cobbler]

The issue with this is you are assuming you know what metrics they use to judge each player. I would be very surprised if each player didn't have different and specific KPIs to meet. As unfashionable as it sounds, this is how Mayne got a gig 2 years after not kicking a goal and Suban continues to get one. Probably also the reason why Tabs kickin 11.0 over two weeks isn't enough. I don't have a nuanced enough feel for the game to ID what it is but I bet there is something that he just doesn't get right but Ross feels is essential for his role.

Whilst I find it frustrating that "spuds" get games over others, I have no doubt this is because the others aren't doing what they are told they need to. It's horrible as a supporter because we have no idea what the KPIs are, but they will be there.

I don't need KPIs to watch a can't be bothered Kersten look second rate constantly. With Mayne you could see his defensive effort, similar to Grey and many others. Hell even Dawson I could see his value with his spoils and ability to hold the play up.

Kersten? I ain't seeing a thing. Doesn't lead up, doesn't provide a contest, often metres away from his man, defensive pressure non existant, gives up on second efforts. These are things everyone of us supporters can see. I'm not exaggerating when I highlight these and even the most diehard Kersten fan would agree this is Kersten.

Taberner? Yeah ok his last AFL outing was beyond deplorable and he was subsequently dropped. The only thing I can imagine he isn't doing is competing in the ruck. I didn't see the game but listened on the radio and his name was everywhere, but they did highlight him giving away free kicks in the ruck and if that's the specific thing we're looking for massive improvement in to justify his inclusion, then I guess I can say - OK that area needs work.

But Kersten? Yeah nah he's been deplorable for many weeks now and should also be dropped if the match committee were providing a consistent line.