Toast Collingwood's greatest 25 players (Michael Roberts - HS today)

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35Daicos

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Having a go at our top 10, order a bit too hard but top ten, applying games played criteria so matches though I'd prefer that not be a factor as denies Ron Todd and others of their unique place:

Bob Rose
Nathan Buckley
Gordon Coventry
Leeter Collier
Harry Collier
Dick Lee*
Peter Daicos
Des Fothergill
Richard Condon
Jack Regan

*agree he MUST become an AFL Legend, won the goalkicking 10! times
This is a very enjoyable thread, there's some great stuff here from plenty of people but especially by you. Our current struggles and coaching situation hardly get a mention, so it's just nice to be able to go into a thread and escape the negative bullsh** that is dominating the rest of the place!! I like the new look avatar as well, BTW!

I've posted something previously (more than once, I think) about the injustice of Dick Lee not being an official legend of the game. Just imagine if a player in modern times dominated the goalkicking like this bloke did. He just happened to play in an era where a year's tally of 50 goals was considered a very large haul, people sitting in judgment today must look at that and not be impressed, and that is simply unfair.

In general, I tend to not pay too much attention to "conspiracy theories", however I have to agree with you that some anti-Collingwood bias may have cost us in cases like this, and of course, with the selection of the Team of the Century.
 
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35Daicos

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Lee twice (1910, 1915) won the greatest distinction bestowed on footballers in his day, Champion Player of the Colony. He could star in defence or on the ball as well as at full-forward and he was one of the truly great high marks, arguably the equal of Roy Cazaly. Lee's marking has been described as 'freakish' and photographs of him taking the ball high over other players have been reproduced countless times. He was also a great kick, extremely adept with drop-kick or punt but especially proficient in the place-kick. According to Harry Collier (captain of Collingwood 1935-39) Lee could place-kick a goal from the boundary line without seeing daylight between the goalposts—even at a rival ground with kids throwing oranges trying to knock the ball over!

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lee-walter-henry-dick-7152
The Champion of the Colony 'award' is still often spoken about as if it's something worth taking seriously (the AFL Record Season Guide even today includes it's details for whatever reason), but it really has been exposed as a complete myth, and is not of any value whatsoever. e.g. Hugh Gavin (an Essendon star in other years) was named as the 1903 Champion of the Colony (of Victoria) but he played that season in WA! Historian/writer C.C. Mullen basically came up with a list of names for his 1950's publications (apparently) based on old newspaper reports he had studied, and decided who was the most deserving winner for all of those years from 1856 onwards.

There's an article on the subject here that's quite interesting to read:- http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/the-champions-that-never-were/
 
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This is a very enjoyable thread, there's some great stuff here from plenty of people but especially by you. Our current struggles and coaching situation hardly get a mention, so it's just nice to be able to go into a thread and escape the negative bullsh** that is dominating the rest of the place!! I like the new look avatar as well, BTW!

I've posted something previously (more than once, I think) about the injustice of Dick Lee not being an official legend of the game. Just imagine if a player in modern times dominated the goalkicking like this bloke did. He just happened to play in an era where a year's tally of 50 goals was considered a very large haul, people sitting in judgment today must look at that and not be impressed, and that is simply unfair.

In general, I tend to not pay too much attention to "conspiracy theories", however I have to agree with you that some anti-Collingwood bias may have cost us in cases like this, and of course, with the selection of the Team of the Century.
I'm with you as I don't think it's a conspiracy theory as such.
it's more because non Collingwood supporters are all brought up from day one, that Collingwood is the "hated" team so that creeps in a bit in judgments.

Eg regan v Silvagni, the inherent bias towards more modern players and Collingwood is not viewed as favourably means a Magpie might be pegged down a few spots.

Silvagni was the most bizarre pick.

But it's still fun to relearn about older players and older times
 

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The Champion of the Colony 'award' is still often spoken about as if it's something worth taking seriously (the AFL Record Season Guide even today includes it's details for whatever reason), but it really has been exposed as a complete myth, and is not of any value whatsoever. e.g. Hugh Gavin (an Essendon star in other years) was named as the 1903 Champion of the Colony (of Victoria) but he played that season in WA! Historian/writer C.C. Mullen basically came up with a list of names for his 1950's publications (apparently) based on old newspaper reports he had studied, and decided who was the most deserving winner for all of those years from 1856 onwards.

There's an article on the subject here that's quite interesting to read:- http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/the-champions-that-never-were/
A lot of truth in what you say.
But it's still sounds pretty good to be champion of the colony.

At least at the time most of the winners were top of their tree for the time
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Your case is compelling with Gordon.
John Coleman, he got the nod, hard to argue on his numbers too.

But Gordon was something else too. Kicked 100 goals against every team he played against except Footscray, 89 only. But remembering they joined the comp in 1925 so Gordon missed a few years to kick a bag or two.

I'd say he should be higher than Syd too.

Interestingly they had a brother Norm, who it's been said was the best of all of them.
But that's easy to say when they don't play.
I think Norm died in action in the first WW or some such battlefield.

(Gordon Carlyon told me that story once, I always listed to Carlyon, he was this encyclopaedia on those old players and times.)

I think it can be argued.

98 games @5.48 ave 537 career.

If a players played 98 games now and kicked 500 odd goals he would be a star but considered not to have stood the test of time.

With the ever changing nature of the game how do you know teams wouldn't of went on to curb his influence? in fact he started to get into fights as he was getting unwanted attention/tactics used on him.


306 games @ 4.25 ave 1299 total. First to 100, first to 300 played, 2nd all time goals kicker (first for 70 odd years).

In my mind doing it for 306 games is better then for 5 seasons, some would argue Coleman was a flash in the pan.

I can not believe we don't have 1 players across our history who was deemed good enough for AFL ToC is incredible bias at play.

Daicos changed the way the game is played that alone should of seen him in.

Lockett the other who now should lay claim.
 

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I think it can be argued.

98 games @5.48 ave 537 career.

If a players played 98 games now and kicked 500 odd goals he would be a star but considered not to have stood the test of time.

With the ever changing nature of the game how do you know teams wouldn't of went on to curb his influence? in fact he started to get into fights as he was getting unwanted attention/tactics used on him.


306 games @ 4.25 ave 1299 total. First to 100, first to 300 played, 2nd all time goals kicker (first for 70 odd years).

In my mind doing it for 306 games is better then for 5 seasons, some would argue Coleman was a flash in the pan.

I can not believe we don't have 1 players across our history who was deemed good enough for AFL ToC is incredible bias at play.

Daicos changed the way the game is played that alone should of seen him in.

Lockett the other who now should lay claim.
All very fair points.

From everything I've heard including talking to people that were coached by Coleman and watched him play, he was something else.

If I had to punt on it I'd say best full forwards ever not necessarily in order

Lee, Coventry, Pratt, Coleman, Hudson, Lockett

Those 6 for me and if I had to go top 5 then Pratt would likely miss
 
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All very fair points.

From everything I've heard including talking to people that were coached by Coleman and watched him play, he was something else.

If I had to punt on it I'd say best full forwards ever not necessarily in order

Lee, Coventry, Pratt, Coleman, Hudson, Lockett

Those 6 for me and if I had to go top 5 then Pratt would likely miss

Dunstall has to come into the conversation too.
 

Darkyprotector

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Best Collingwood 70s onwards, for me anyway

B. D Tuddenham ~ G Pert ~ A Shaw

HB. J Greening ~ B Reid ~ W Picken

C. G Brown ~ N Buckley (c) ~ D Millane

HF. P Carman ~ D Cloke ~ W Richardson

F. P Daicos ~ P McKenna ~ P Moore

R. L Thompson ~ S Pendlebury ~ D Swan

I. G Raines ~ B Price ~ S Burns ~ A Didak

C. L Matthews
C'mon saintly you forgot one key omission
Only back pocket to win a Copeland ,great player
 
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Swan > Pendlebury. Both incredibly consistent but Swan's best was better and he was more of a match winner.

Gavin Brown too high.

If it wasn't for the match qualification records, Ron Todd would be top 10 easily, perhaps top 5.

Also, surely Gordon Coventry should be top 5, perhaps fifth at the expense of one of the Colliers? He has a monumental record.
 

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Darkyprotector

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Best Collingwood 70s onwards, for me anyway

B. D Tuddenham ~ G Pert ~ A Shaw

HB. J Greening ~ B Reid ~ W Picken

C. G Brown ~ N Buckley (c) ~ D Millane

HF. P Carman ~ D Cloke ~ W Richardson

F. P Daicos ~ P McKenna ~ P Moore

R. L Thompson ~ S Pendlebury ~ D Swan

I. G Raines ~ B Price ~ S Burns ~ A Didak

C. L Matthews


I'll have crack
Hyde presti waters
H shaw Picken clement
Barham price millane
Daicos carman swan
Tuddy McKenna bucks
Thomson brown r shaw
Greening burns Pendles Williams

Fair team , I've been blessed
Remind all that you have to make a grand final to win it
1 every 4 years is a fair effort.
BETTER THAN ALL
 
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Dick Lee*
Peter Daicos
Des Fothergill
Richard Condon
Jack Regan

*agree he MUST become an AFL Legend, won the goalkicking 10! times
Will be a few years yet before he can become a legend - Blight will get it this year, the function is in Adelaide. And the AFL list has him with "only" 8 goalkicking wins.
 
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Darkyprotector

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Swan > Pendlebury. Both incredibly consistent but Swan's best was better and he was more of a match winner.

Gavin Brown too high.

If it wasn't for the match qualification records, Ron Todd would be top 10 easily, perhaps top 5.

Also, surely Gordon Coventry should be top 5, perhaps fifth at the expense of one of the Colliers? He has a monumental record.
A COLLIER LOWER


NO CHANCE
Albert 11 flags in senior competition in 13 seasons, brown low , best player dyer reckons he saw,legend of the game should be in LEGEND STATUS
2 years in tassie 0 flags pies
 

Darkyprotector

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No
Not when you consider his coach at the time was actually on the selection panel
Not even there best full back , shows what a joke the so called legend s are , but then again
Nab rising star = farce
All Australians = 10 cats 1 year lol
Fixture, umpiring
Turned OUR GAME into an event ,
Don't forget your Popcorn
 

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A COLLIER LOWER


NO CHANCE
Albert 11 flags in senior competition in 13 seasons, brown low , best player dyer reckons he saw,legend of the game should be in LEGEND STATUS
2 years in tassie 0 flags pies

Coventry won our goal kicking 16 times and he won the league's 6. He was the spearhead of the greatest side ever and kicked 1299 goals. Surely he has an argument?

I'd be moving one of them to 6th, not 60th.

Agree to disagree on Brown, but I guess that's why we have these websites. Very good player yes, great player maybe. Only 15 Collingwood players ever ahead of him? Not in my book.
 

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C'mon saintly you forgot one key omission
Only back pocket to win a Copeland ,great player
Robert Hyde

Yes very very good.

And just for something good against Carlton, Stan Magro "Butsy" what a beauty to Jesaulenko :eek: :p
 

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