Mod. Notice Competitions: READ BEFORE POSTING A COMPETITION

[Barrybran]

The issue with a straight knockout is that if you get a bad draw you learn nothing and have no chance to see how you go against multiple opponents. A quick round robin at least gives you around 3 matchups to see where you stand against multiple teams, no matter the first result.

100% this. If you're trialing designs you need a couple of matchups to road test them. Craegus' idea of groups of 4 works well here because you get a good run with each design and then you're into a straight knockout after that to move things along.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Happy to modify the format but a comp like this does need to be as simple as possible to make it relevant. We may have 6 entries, we may have 26. It's possible that instead of groups we'll just play 3 random rounds but it depends on the number of entries.

As for NAFLr teams using their actual club, I'm not sure why we're making that restriction. I don't actually see a problem with any of the teams using their whole NAFL identity if they wish. The VFL has the Northern Blues and Casey Demons but it also has the Essendon Bombers and Collingwood Magpies, but entries from both leagues can use whatever suitable feeder side they like.

 

[El_Scorcho]

We could also do a straight knockout but have the losing sides play scratch matches against another eliminated opponent.

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

I like the idea of craegus' round robin.

But if we did the straight knockout I think it should be two rounds. One for home and one for away or clash kits.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Making people do 2 designs when they are already working on their NAFL kits might cost us some entrants. This works because people can use a discarded design to test things like their presentation/visual style/execution.

This only works if it's quick and easy.

 

[Craegus]

Happy to modify the format but a comp like this does need to be as simple as possible to make it relevant. We may have 6 entries, we may have 26. It's possible that instead of groups we'll just play 3 random rounds but it depends on the number of entries.

As for NAFLr teams using their actual club, I'm not sure why we're making that restriction. I don't actually see a problem with any of the teams using their whole NAFL identity if they wish. The VFL has the Northern Blues and Casey Demons but it also has the Essendon Bombers and Collingwood Magpies, but entries from both leagues can use whatever suitable feeder side they like.

Basically the idea is to combine the preseason that happened before where the NAFLR owners had a chance to try out their identities with giving the NAFL owners a challenge to create something different (be it a new identity or an altered one) that allows them to think more out of the box than what they would usually do. So basically it is combining two competitions into one, where the NAFLR are getting feedback before submitting their final designs and the NAFL are having a bit of fun in trying to challenge themselves or test things for the following season and both are doing so while competing against each other without actually having NAFLR teams playing NAFL ones (keeping the separation so that NAFLR have to be promoted to get to play the full NAFL teams).

 

[El_Scorcho]

I still don't see any point of that restriction. It's needless. The NAFLr clubs are still top tier, they are just second division of the top tier until they are promoted. This comp will sit below both NAFL divisions.

 

[Craegus]

I still don't see any point of that restriction. It's needless. The NAFLr clubs are still top tier, they are just second division of the top tier until they are promoted. This comp will sit below both NAFL divisions.

Basically I see it as some of those in the NAFLR are still new to the designing and presentation of these league competitions and are trying to get the hang of the them and their designs, or some have been close to a real good entry but some criticism/feedback may assist them further in making those final tweaks to push their designs over the top, so this allows those in the NAFLR to have a chance before actually competing in the NAFLR to see where they stand.

Whereas a few in the NAFL have set identities that don't necessarily need tweaking or need/want that final criticism/feedback so it will allow those in the NAFL if they want a chance to do something completely different and get some extra competition, while also challenging themselves (e.g. I am happy with my stuff for the Makos this year and have wanted to challenge myself to see if I could create a solid look using the two colours of the Dawnbreakers {which have actually been criticised as not being a strong combination} but felt that it needed competition play to see if it truly worked rather than just a portfolio presentation that may get a comment or two). But with that being said, a feeder/"B" team could be an extension of the current identity and be a trial of different designs if people chose to do so.

 

[Spanna_]

Feeder teams are a dumb idea.

End of story.

 

[Dylan8]

someone tldr when this is sorted

my piping hot take on the matter: dont dilute the best comp we have with tertiary shit

 

[Fizzler]

This will be good for the NAFL History thread.

Gibbsy

 

[Freight Train]

someone tldr when this is sorted

my piping hot take on the matter: dont dilute the best comp we have with tertiary shit

100% agree.

If its just a comp worth nothing, why even have it? NAFL is the most prestigious tournament we have and is basically the WrestleMania of this board, at the lack of a better analogy. If you want to perfect your craft, you've got other football design comps (both large scale and weekly comps) plus no one's stopping you from making a portfolio. Basically there's a million other ways for you to develop - don't see what this will really accomplish.

 

[fancyscum]

don't see what this will really accomplish.

craegus will get his new team without having to change up his existing franchise.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The opinions above are perfectly valid which is why keeping this as simple and easy as possible is paramount.

It'll be single kit and it'll be straight knockout. If people want to post other kits in the thread for feedback that's fine I guess.

 

[Spanna_]

This will be good for the NAFL History thread.

Gibbsy

Was just thinking the same thing. When it finally gets done it's going to be a great read.

 

[Craegus]

craegus will get his new team without having to change up his existing franchise.

Do I care if my other team exists in this competition? No.

I was trying to give an added element to a long running competition that would again make it move away from the rest. If you had read my initial post about the Dawnbreakers properly (as apparently you haven't, I said that they would play in minor leagues (being non existent competitions, thus not actually existing in an actual league) with the remote possibility that one day they may get a spot in the main leagues. Nowhere did I actually say that this was a must do, so perhaps think about my actual thinking about this stuff (wanting to help others by giving them unique opportunities that they have not necessarily had in the past) rather than assuming I have an agenda about my own designs.

The opinions above are perfectly valid which is why keeping this as simple and easy as possible is paramount.

It'll be single kit and it'll be straight knockout. If people want to post other kits in the thread for feedback that's fine I guess.

So it will just be another Cup competition like all the others, and like the last pre-season NAFL competition that lasted a season and hasn't been mentioned again.

If that is the case then there is no reason to even do it. No one will get any decent feedback on a single design seen once against a random opponent, and it will fade out after a single try as it will be no different to the FLO or FIRA's cups.

This could have been something different like the NAFL NZ Challenge was, a quick fire competition where people got the chance to exhibit designs for solid feedback and comparison against multiple other designs. Basically something that just the NAFL did, but apparently the same old is how people want it, and they would prefer the board being filled with single post portfolios if someone wants to present something different, so I'd just completely forget it El_Scorcho, it is not worth your time running a one and done cup competition that has no purpose (FIRA and FLO ones at least have a reason to be run due to the restriction in number of entrants in the main leagues, rather than the NAFL which allows everyone).

 

[El_Scorcho]

Not worth doing if it's overcomplicated.

The NZ Challenge worked because it was 4 teams each submitting 1 kit with 3 rounds then a final, 7 games total. This could be 24 teams. It needs to be kept simple so it doesn't step on the toes of the NAFL or outstay it's welcome.

 

[fancyscum]

Do I care if my other team exists in this competition? No.

I was trying to give an added element to a long running competition that would again make it move away from the rest. If you had read my initial post about the Dawnbreakers properly (as apparently you haven't, I said that they would play in minor leagues (being non existent competitions, thus not actually existing in an actual league) with the remote possibility that one day they may get a spot in the main leagues. Nowhere did I actually say that this was a must do, so perhaps think about my actual thinking about this stuff (wanting to help others by giving them unique opportunities that they have not necessarily had in the past) rather than assuming I have an agenda about my own designs.

I don't buy the whole 'helping the guys in the reserves' crap I guess, you've had designers in that division say that it would be of no help to them and you still continue to push it. Scorch's suggested tournament improves on the NAFLr pre-season trophy, which was still useful for me, a reserves designer, despite only playing one game, with one kit, which I lost.

 

[Red Crow]

If people want to try some new things and get feedback on general presentation etc, then we could just have an all-in-one "NAFL ideas" workshop thread where everyone posts their stuff and seeks feedback. While there won't be voting as such, there will still be the ability to compare to what other people are doing and get (hopefully) constructive feedback.

Not everything needs to be a competition.

 

[Craegus]

Not worth doing if it's overcomplicated.

The NZ Challenge worked because it was 4 teams each submitting 1 kit with 3 rounds then a final, 7 games total. This could be 24 teams. It needs to be kept simple so it doesn't step on the toes of the NAFL or outstay it's welcome.

The first stage of what I was proposing was basically the same, if it is 24 teams then it would be 6 groups of 4 or 4 of 6 then a top 8 or 4 knock out. Maximum of 4 rounds of voting.

 

[Craegus]

I don't buy the whole 'helping the guys in the reserves' crap I guess, you've had designers in that division say that it would be of no help to them and you still continue to push it. Scorch's suggested tournament improves on the NAFLr pre-season trophy, which was still useful for me, a reserves designer, despite only playing one game, with one kit, which I lost.

My intention is purely to help. That is all that it is as I know I would have loved the help when I was first starting (on here and other boards before that) rather than just having to try and wing it all the time when I was against designers who were so far above my level all the time. I hope you believe that this is the case.

Yes there are some who have said this, but I am certain there are others who genuinely would like the help. Also there are times, and you have to admit this does happen, when people don't ask for help and then when their designs fall flat they come out and go "what is wrong with my designs?" Giving people the opportunity to get this assistance even if they choose to not take it up at least gives everyone the opportunity to say that we gave the option for help and perhaps it may help in the future to take up that option. If the option is not there then it helps no-one, if it is there then perhaps people will take it up, it can't hurt to try.

 

[Grandsun]

If people want to try some new things and get feedback on general presentation etc, then we could just have an all-in-one "NAFL ideas" workshop thread where everyone posts their stuff and seeks feedback. While there won't be voting as such, there will still be the ability to compare to what other people are doing and get (hopefully) constructive feedback.

Not everything needs to be a competition.

yep i agree mate

 

[Grandsun]

Australian Rules Champions Challenge

- Entry by an invitation
- One team from the NAFL
- One team from the NAFL Reserves
- One team from Can-Am
- One team from FIRA
- Inspiration comes from real life tournaments like World Club Series (Rugby League), Asian Champions League (Soccer), Champions League (Cricket), Super Club Series (Netball). Basically it would be the best of the best playing against each other.
- Invitations would firstly go to the Champions of each of the leagues invited. If they decline, runners up will then be invited, and so on.
- There would be 3 rounds then a Grand Final (ie. everyone plays each other once then the top 2 play the Grand Final, and bottom 2 play the 3rd Place Playoff).

2017 ARCC Qualifiers
- 2016/17 NAFL Grand Final Winner
- 2016/17 NAFL Grand Final Winner
- Can-Am Bowl II Winner
- 2017 FIRA Grand Final Winner

Thoughts?

 

[Gibbsy]

My intention is purely to help. That is all that it is as I know I would have loved the help when I was first starting (on here and other boards before that) rather than just having to try and wing it all the time when I was against designers who were so far above my level all the time. I hope you believe that this is the case.

Yes there are some who have said this, but I am certain there are others who genuinely would like the help. Also there are times, and you have to admit this does happen, when people don't ask for help and then when their designs fall flat they come out and go "what is wrong with my designs?" Giving people the opportunity to get this assistance even if they choose to not take it up at least gives everyone the opportunity to say that we gave the option for help and perhaps it may help in the future to take up that option. If the option is not there then it helps no-one, if it is there then perhaps people will take it up, it can't hurt to try.

Forgive my cynicism but my initial impressions were that you want the opportunity to create a new identity in a competition situation without having to sacrifice the Makos identity. If it was just about feedback or improving the reserves then the current PS cup or a new workshop thread (as both have been suggested) would be fine.

I know you like comps and I know you like winning. Who else keeps a running tally of their competitions won on this board in their signature, particularly when you've been here for so long?

I'm not adverse to the idea of a preseason knockout cup competition that combines the NAFL and NAFLR teams in one fixture, giving the ressies teams a chance to knock off a top team (as you appear to desire).

I just don't want the premier competition of the board to be diluted with meaningless franchises and soulless 'feeder teams' that no doubt would be replaced each year with your new latest idea.

 

[Craegus]

Forgive my cynicism but my initial impressions were that you want the opportunity to create a new identity in a competition situation without having to sacrifice the Makos identity. If it was just about feedback or improving the reserves then the current PS cup or a new workshop thread (as both have been suggested) would be fine.

The new identity came about last year while I was thinking about the possibility of people creating other teams using different personal challenges, which happened at around the same time that I had the initial thought of spicing up the reserves competition to give them some added competition and the opportunity to play against top tier players, but not the top tier brands while not actually affecting their ladder positions. As such I merged the ideas into a single one.

I know you like comps and I know you like winning. Who else keeps a running tally of their competitions won on this board in their signature, particularly when you've been here for so long?

A couple of others do it now, just in different variations (there is at least one other that is basically the same as what I have, and FT has a list of comps he has won).

The actual reason it is still in my signature is that I haven't been bothered changing it as it is now a bit more redundant as there are far less weekly competitions that the whole signature was based around.

I'm not adverse to the idea of a preseason knockout cup competition that combines the NAFL and NAFLR teams in one fixture, giving the ressies teams a chance to knock off a top team (as you appear to desire).

I am not really for the straight knockout competition as I do not think it really does much apart from giving people very little chance to get feedback, especially if they cop a seriously unfortunate draw. An expanded NAFL NZ Challenge concept is what I am in favour of.

I just don't want the premier competition of the board to be diluted with meaningless franchises and soulless 'feeder teams' that no doubt would be replaced each year with your new latest idea.

The feeder or "B" team idea was never to allow people to make changes to them in terms of brand each year. They were to be extensions of the main teams that allowed people to experiment with designs or colours (as happens with all teams now), but not the brand itself (very similar to the existance of "B" teams in European football leagues but with the addition of the experimentation of colours and designs.

I was originally going to add a further stipulation bin that these teams would replace the main league teams should they be relegated (so the original team would be wiped from the competition completely), and the "B" team would then have to fight it out in the reserves for promotion (so they would then become a fully active participant). But I thought that it was possible that collusion could happen and certain teams would be deliberately relegated so that they would no longer exist (though unlikely it was a small possibility), so the suggestion became that if the top team was relegated then one of the teams would have to disappear at the designers choice.

Also how often do I change my team from season to season in any competition. Most of my teams (bar maybe one or two which have mostly changed due to competition changes) have existed for at least 2-3 seasons before any changes have been made, and then the only reason for that is they have run their course and something fresh was needed for me to succeed.