Analysis Danger on Tim Kelly + his 2020 contract

[Ricketz]

Now, good on you, be happy you won, the Eagles lost, consoled in the 2018 flag, you winner you !!
You need Tim to help you to a flag before the next trade period opens, cos thats what counts if its wins & loses that floats your boat, not the Kellys.

How would trading Kelly at the end of 2018 helped our chances of winning the flag in 2018.

Mods, surely this guy is just blatant trolling and not interested in a meaningful discussion here?

 

[Kwality]

Mate, it has been well reported WCE were in his ear before he even played five games for us, making promises to his manager.

Honestly, undermining another clubs draft pick before their first year is up is a dog act, and every other club saw them doing it.

If you think WCE hands are clean, you are either ignorant or trolling, in which case gtfo our board with that ****.

I understand you think thats what happened, & I say again, Tims Mrs, Tims family .... take consolation there is no suggestion the Cats have stuffed up, they would have had the same approach as Jordan Clark, but Mrs Kelly wasnt at the table.

 

[Landgraft]

Not necessarily. It seems likely we will be eligible for compensation picks, depending on how much the Eagles offer and if it accepted. However I think it will be unlikely the Eagles will offer that much since they have never considered him worth much, further the Eagles have a very solid midfield and with all their talent as the reigning premiers their salary cap won't give them much room. If Freo offer $1.6m+ for a two year contract and he accepts we will most likely get compo picks, especially if he maintains his form for the season. At the moment we still have a good chance of keeping him, and we will get the first bid in.

Compo picks are only for FA. TK either gets traded or goes back into the draft.

Eagles were offering somewhere between 650-800k per year at the end of last year and wouldn't be in that different a position this time around. They'll come for him again under very similar terms, as would any club that could land him.

How would trading Kelly at the end of 2018 helped our chances of winning the flag in 2018.

Mods, surely this guy is just blatant trolling and not interested in a meaningful discussion here?

My stance on this is pretty clear, he's shown his true colours time and again.

 

[Turbocat]

My point is clubs dont even try & stick it up each other any more, & the Eagles/Cats have dealt before without problems, Cooky & his protege Nisbett.


What cheque was that, remember it was Mrs Kelly that wasnt happy, surely the Eagles were whispering sweet nothings in her ear, Tim was & is happy at Geelong.
That not doing a deal last year will probably cost the Eagles more, mean the Cats get more ... be happy with that.
Did the Eagles blame the Cats, reckon the final conversation was Cook & Nisbett & an acknowledgement that a deal could not be done & (for Grafter) you have the comments by Danger & Scott that seem to acknowledge that.
Of course there are those who need their club to be in the right, the other club to be in the wrong, their club to win, the other club to lose ....

There is a symbiotic relationship between Player/Manager and potential club.. If a club likes a player they approach. If a player is unhappy they approach... If a player is 100% happy he would quickly spurn approaches... and if a club is not interested it would be courteous and make it known they have other priorities or lack cap space or the ability to get the deal done.

Obviously there was some meshing of wants and desires here.. I have no idea who was the first to approach who but id doubt that any stage was Kelly told .. you are contracted ..its unlikely we can get it done. If , as reported , a 3M over 5 deal was agreed to.. talks had proceeded to a reasonable level and some sort of confidence must have been imparted.

Somewhere in that there must have been some sort of estimation in what WC thought would get the deal done.. what would enable Geelong to release him. Just how much their reliance weighed on Geelong caving to the well publicised off field issues.. and how much was Gaff FA comp ..again no idea .. but there was certainly a non willingness to cross a self determined threshold.. to be willing to do what it took to get it done.

The article linked says WC left saying Geelong wanted too much.. another way of saying that is the two clubs disagreed on Kellys worth as a player.. in my estimation atpit ..geelongs valuation was closer to the correct one. If Geelong was willing to trade him for what worked out to be 22 , 25 and a FR1 with a R3 going back.. geelong looks more than reasonable..infact it looks like Geelong gave too much.

 

[Kwality]

How would trading Kelly at the end of 2018 helped our chances of winning the flag in 2018.

Mods, surely this guy is just blatant trolling and not interested in a meaningful discussion here?

I for one would appreciate you putting some thought into your approach, there is a an underlying conversation still happening, see this:
How would trading Kelly at the end of 2018 helped our chances of winning the flag in 2018.

or as above from a Geelong poster:
The article linked says WC left saying Geelong wanted too much.. another way of saying that is the two clubs disagreed on Kellys worth as a player.. in my estimation atpit ..geelongs valuation was closer to the correct one. If Geelong was willing to trade him for what worked out to be 22 , 25 and a FR1 with a R3 going back.. geelong looks more than reasonable..infact it looks like Geelong gave too much.

No criticism of that? Why? Because its what happened, not the sooky my mob/your mob mentality, ban him he's got a different point of view to me & I'm offended (permanently even?). Above he's suggesting Geelong gave too much*, he must be wrong, hang on, Geelong wrong? NO !!

* in a context

 

[catempire]

Now, good on you, be happy you won, the Eagles lost, consoled in the 2018 flag, you winner you !!
You need Tim to help you to a flag before the next trade period opens, cos thats what counts if its wins & loses that floats your boat, not the Kellys.

Listen up. You’re welcome to debate and discuss but this isn’t on. If this is the tone of your contribution your time here is over.

 

[Max Milburn]

Listen up. You’re welcome to debate and discuss but this isn’t on. If this is the tone of your contribution your time here is over.

Catempire by a TKO.

 

[Ricketz]

I understand you think thats what happened, & I say again, Tims Mrs, Tims family .... take consolation there is no suggestion the Cats have stuffed up, they would have had the same approach as Jordan Clark, but Mrs Kelly wasnt at the table.

Ever heard of a contract? Who gave Tim's missus the idea he could reneg on a two year binding No Neg contract. It was the Eagles, you *******, now shut up with this s**t.

 

[Ricketz]

There is a symbiotic relationship between Player/Manager and potential club.. If a club likes a player they approach. If a player is unhappy they approach... If a player is 100% happy he would quickly spurn approaches... and if a club is not interested it would be courteous and make it known they have other priorities or lack cap space or the ability to get the deal done.

Obviously they was some meshing of wants and desires here.. I have no idea who was the first to approach who but id doubt that any stage was Kelly told .. you are contracted ..its unlikely we can get it done. If , as reported , a 3M over 5 deal was agreed to.. talks had proceeded to a reasonable level and some sort of confidence must have been imparted.

Somewhere in that there must have been some sort of estimation in what WC thought would get the deal done.. what would enable Geelong to release him. Just how much their reliance weighed on Geelong caving to the well publicised off field issues.. and how much was Gaff FA comp ..again no idea .. but there was certainly a non willingness to cross a self determined threshold.. to be willing to do what it took to get it done.

The article linked says WC left saying Geelong wanted too much.. another way of saying that is the two clubs disagreed on Kellys worth as a player.. in my estimation atpit ..geelongs valuation was closer to the correct one. If Geelong was willing to trade him for what worked out to be 22 , 25 and a FR1 with a R3 going back.. geelong looks more than reasonable..infact it looks like Geelong gave too much.

Great post. I can clarify that WCE definitely played the family PR issues in the trade negotiations. Dog underhanded act. It's why I cannot stomach WCE any more, and won't suffer arguments from their supporters that they were decent and dealing fairly.

 

[Down at K Park]

Now, good on you, be happy you won, the Eagles lost, consoled in the 2018 flag, you winner you !!
You need Tim to help you to a flag before the next trade period opens, cos thats what counts if its wins & loses that floats your boat, not the Kellys.

Seriously just gtfo you tosser. All you’ve ever done here is bs on about how your coked up club did the right thing, despite the evidence showing snake like undermining of a contracted player, and then screwing him at the last minute with a low ball offer.

So glad your s**t team looks like a rabble this year.

 

[Hamingja]

I don't really understand why opposition supporters come here to debate this when there is a thread on the draft board for their thoughts on the matter.

 

[Kwality]

Ever heard of a contract? Who gave Tim's missus the idea he could reneg on a two year binding No Neg contract. It was the Eagles, you *******, now shut up with this ****.

Not sure a contract would have ever entered Mrs Kellys mind ... probably spoke to Tim, his manager, when the Cats put a new one in front of him after a couple of games (same sort of timing as Jordan Clark as is the industry norm these days).
Renege on a contract & the AFL, no???

 

[Kwality]

Listen up. You’re welcome to debate and discuss but this isn’t on. If this is the tone of your contribution your time here is over.

Ok, I'll go. Thought Zali was the downhill skier, ,wrong again ...

 

[Ricketz]

Not sure a contract would have ever entered Mrs Kellys mind ... probably spoke to Tim, his manager, when the Cats put a new one in front of him after a couple of games (same sort of timing as Jordan Clark as is the industry norm these days).
Renege on a contract & the AFL, no???

Quality work. Got another reply...

I am pretty sure it entered WCE list management team's mind. And they decided they would undermine it by whispering sweet nothings in his ear, again. And clearly, they were not honest with his missus if she wasn't aware.

No matter which way your delusions want to spin it, West Coast acted like total pricks in this entire venture.

If you want to discuss why, let's go for it. But you can bugger off with this bullshit that they didn't deliberately create the entire situation from go to woah, including the impact on his family.

Personally, I find it disgusting that creeps like you come on here and try to justify such s**t behaviour by your club, just because of some one eyed fandom you have. They are people, and your club played them like poker chips. I don't expect you will be on here doing it much longer.

 

[Turbocat]

I don't really understand why opposition supporters come here to debate this when there is a thread on the draft board for their thoughts on the matter.

I dont mind..as long as they stay within the white lines.. that CE setout.. and the visitor must be willing to absorb some comment ..as we would on their board. The more radical opinions would not last long here.

 

[Nickoo]

The fact West Coast can't offer what they don't have is fair enough. If Kelly asks to be traded to West Coast then we'll probably sniff around some of their good young players and talk to Freo to see if they offer something better. Ultimately if we can't prize out a young kid we like and Kelly insists on preferring West Coast over Freo then I think we'll accept their 2 first rounders even if they are likely to both be picks 15-20. There's also Sydney's 2nd rounder this year that belongs to West Coast now which could be a pick around 20 if they keep stinking it up.

Why would we accept that if hadn’t already?

West coast didn’t have to pay high wages as I understand last year. So the deal of 700k was one for 2020 onwards. Geelong are under no obligation, nothing they anyone can offer will be fair comp. look at the original Ablett trade. But Geelong will try to do what TK wants. If that’s west coast then he won’t be going much above 700k.

But we will have to add him to the top bracket to keep him. So there will be a 200k IMHO differential, minimum between offers. West coast don’t have salary cap to accommodate much more as I understand it without doing something. He won’t go Freo and Freo as I understand it know this and be caught in a deal.

So it’s us or west coast and a salary differential that might make it hard to turn down in MHO for TK. TK is worth more to us than West Coast hence why it didn’t happen last year.




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[Nickoo]

Then why write checks to him you can't cash?

This, and only this, is why Eagles stuffed up, in my opinion. Unprofessional to be whispering sweet nothings and then blame the owner for not throwing him away cheap. Who in business operates that way? It will and has only made things harder for the Eagles to get the job done this year, and will likely send a red flag to other clubs when dealing with them.

You can spin it anyway you like, but the Eagles stuffed up big time.

Exactly. But this is what amongst others that Paddy was getting at with his comments around premiership problems. They weren’t around what feel could get but also that TK camp want in terms of money. Weagles couldn’t cough up what was asked as well which also drove apparently why they wouldn’t couldn’t get the picks we wanted. And as I understand it nothing has changed. Geel and Freo will offer a 200k+minimum per annum differential.

Also apparently that last conference call when the 2nd rounder was brought up was really bad weagles sort of demanded that wellsy do it. It was so bad that someone said foff off. Normally it’s quite professional.


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[Nickoo]

My point is clubs dont even try & stick it up each other any more, & the Eagles/Cats have dealt before without problems, Cooky & his protege Nisbett.


What cheque was that, remember it was Mrs Kelly that wasnt happy, surely the Eagles were whispering sweet nothings in her ear, Tim was & is happy at Geelong.
That not doing a deal last year will probably cost the Eagles more, mean the Cats get more ... be happy with that.
Did the Eagles blame the Cats, reckon the final conversation was Cook & Nisbett & an acknowledgement that a deal could not be done & (for Grafter) you have the comments by Danger & Scott that seem to acknowledge that.
Of course there are those who need their club to be in the right, the other club to be in the wrong, their club to win, the other club to lose ....

What are you talking about?.....

Look a deal didn’t happen because like most deals that don’t happen because someone wasn’t prepared to pay the asking price and they’ll have their reasons. I’m putting fwd on the basis of a tale I’ve heard that the asking price from TK camp was a factor for weagles.




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[Mad_Hatter]

If WCE had Kelly right now, in the form he's in, they'd be top of the ladder and favourites to go back to back.
It might win GFC a flag, and cost WCE one

 

[steady2]

Compo picks are only for FA. TK either gets traded or goes back into the draft.

Eagles were offering somewhere between 650-800k per year at the end of last year and wouldn't be in that different a position this time around. They'll come for him again under very similar terms, as would any club that could land him.



My stance on this is pretty clear, he's shown his true colours time and again.

Well to be traded to the Eagles they will have to offer acceptable compensation to us, its as simple as that. They were not willing last year, unlikely they will be willing this year.

Your dollar claim appears unsubstantiated. The only report last year was the Herald Sun which said the Eagles were offering 500k over 3 seasons. You cannot assume what position they will be in until the end of the season, however it is unlikely there will be any retirements among their midfielders and possibly no retirements elsewhere. At the moment I would suggest Geelong is in a position to offer a higher salary, but again, we will have to wait until the end of the season.

I do not know what your position is. However I know what Kelly's position is; to play absolutely stunning football for us...at the moment. He may choose to leave or he may choose to go...at the end of the season.

 

[Turbocat]

Not necessarily. It seems likely we will be eligible for compensation picks, depending on how much the Eagles offer and if it accepted. However I think it will be unlikely the Eagles will offer that much since they have never considered him worth much, further the Eagles have a very solid midfield and with all their talent as the reigning premiers their salary cap won't give them much room. If Freo offer $1.6m+ for a two year contract and he accepts we will most likely get compo picks, especially if he maintains his form for the season. At the moment we still have a good chance of keeping him, and we will get the first bid in.

I think you don't quite understand when a player qualifies for comp picks..

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Why would we accept that if hadn’t already?

West coast didn’t have to pay high wages as I understand last year. So the deal of 700k was one for 2020 onwards. Geelong are under no obligation, nothing they anyone can offer will be fair comp. look at the original Ablett trade. But Geelong will try to do what TK wants. If that’s west coast then he won’t be going much above 700k.

But we will have to add him to the top bracket to keep him. So there will be a 200k IMHO differential, minimum between offers. West coast don’t have salary cap to accommodate much more as I understand it without doing something. He won’t go Freo and Freo as I understand it know this and be caught in a deal.

So it’s us or west coast and a salary differential that might make it hard to turn down in MHO for TK. TK is worth more to us than West Coast hence why it didn’t happen last year.




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TK is still worth more to us than WCE this year and I doubt WCE now have the cap space to accomodate him without pushing players out. So the real question becomes which of Freo and Geelong does his mrs dislike the most? Because i expect that as things sit now she will need to choose one of them.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Be nice if West Coast could slip stream the Bulldogs after a flag .... they ended up with 9 then 7...

My point basically was much the same as yours.

My guess IF it comes down to it if we have to do something like WC R1 , Syd R2 , Wc2020 R1 <> TKellly + R2 .. I suspect we would do that. Wells would back himself to get something out of those picks

More he would back himself to get picks high enough to on trade for a best 22 player. Where we are in our window whatever we get for TK i cant see us taking it all to the draft.

 

[Landgraft]

Well to be traded to the Eagles they will have to offer acceptable compensation to us, its as simple as that. They were not willing last year, unlikely they will be willing this year.

Your dollar claim appears unsubstantiated. The only report last year was the Herald Sun which said the Eagles were offering 500k over 3 seasons. You cannot assume what position they will be in until the end of the season, however it is unlikely there will be any retirements among their midfielders and possibly no retirements elsewhere. At the moment I would suggest Geelong is in a position to offer a higher salary, but again, we will have to wait until the end of the season.

I do not know what your position is. However I know what Kelly's position is; to play absolutely stunning football for us...at the moment. He may choose to leave or he may choose to go...at the end of the season.

You're welcome to go back a little in this thread, I provided a long form post with multiple sources covering every aspect of last year's trade attempt.

 

[Gogeelong]

Tim Kelly has been great since he got to the club, however an interesting comparison is is he worth more than Rohan and Dahlause to us this year?