Decision time at AFC

[macca23]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I would throw everything including a kitchen sink at WC for Seaby but as you say it is very unlikely to happen. I just wish we draft as good a ruckman as Seaby.

If WC go for Stenglein and Perrie I would be laughing all the way to the bank

I'd be laughing with you Stiffy!!

We really should have a crack at him this year.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by theorangeapple


i'd say a ONLY a top 5 pick would even make us consider. and i no that there is no way the crows would consider that option.

what about cox??

we'd take a late first rounder.
possibly stenglein and third round pick.

I'd give you a top 5 pick for Seaby. We might even get one this year!!!

Alternatively Stenglein in a straight swap for Cox - the latter has nowhere near the class of Seaby!!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by theorangeapple
as an eagles supporter, i can say that seaby will have a similar impact to gardiner, he finished 3rd in the sandover medal (led till round 17) as an 18 year old. very rare indeed for a ruckman.

i'd say a ONLY a top 5 pick would even make us consider. and i no that there is no way the crows would consider that option.

what about cox??

we'd take a late first rounder.
possibly stenglein and third round pick.

Cox is not really a gun is he??????

We need someone like Seaby

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
I'd give you a top 5 pick for Seaby. We might even get one this year!!!

So would I the kid is a genuine gun.

Seen his debut agaist the Lions?????? He was fantastic.

 

[Bockchoy67]

Originally posted by theorangeapple
what about cox??

Unfortunately, Cox is now a consistent member of your side and the Eagles as a whole have seemed to realise his ability. At 22 years old, he is still young and can play as a ruckmen and a KPP.

But I really doubt the Eagles would let him slip.

If Seaby is also doubtful, then maybe 21yr old Paul Chambers?

Or perhaps 20yr old Justin Crow?

Both of these players have talent and are not used as much as they perhaps deserve. Chambers will definitely be drawn back once Steven King comes back into the side.

I'm sure that both are possible to obtain, given we set a suitable deal.

Though I'd prefer Seaby.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Bockchoy67
Unfortunately, Cox is now a consistent member of your side and the Eagles as a whole have seemed to realise his ability. At 22 years old, he is still young and can play as a ruckmen and a KPP.

But I really doubt the Eagles would let him slip.

If Seaby is also doubtful, then maybe 21yr old Paul Chambers?

Or perhaps 20yr old Justin Crow?

Both of these players have talent and are not used as much as they perhaps deserve. Chambers will definitely be drawn back once Steven King comes back into the side.

I'm sure that both are possible to obtain, given we set a suitable deal.

Though I'd prefer Seaby.

Chambers and Crow are not upgrades on Biglands at all.

Isn't Crow still on the rookie list??????

 

[Bockchoy67]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Chambers and Crow are not upgrades on Biglands at all.

Isn't Crow still on the rookie list??????

Yes, Crow is one the Rookie List, that was a mistake of mine.

Chambers may not be any better than Biglands, but at least he is still young and developing. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't showed us his real ability...

Are there any ruckman from other clubs that you would suggest, Stiffy?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Bockchoy67
Are there any ruckman from other clubs that you would suggest, Stiffy?

SEABY

I think David Hale from Kangas is coming along nicely and they still have a bloke yet play an AFL game in Hamish McIntosh who is also a very good prospect. Jason Laycock from the Bombers is another one I would keep an eye on

 

[Bockchoy67]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
SEABY

I think David Hale from Kangas is coming along nicely and they still have a bloke yet play an AFL game in Hamish McIntosh who is also a very good prospect. Jason Laycock from the Bombers is another one I would keep an eye on

Hale played a very good game today against the Swans. At 200cm, he can take a good contest mark and disposes very well.

Hamish MacIntosh seems to not be able to get a game at North, yet plays consistently well for Port Melbourne. Despite being 202cm, Hamish seems to be more of a KPP than Hale, but can still leap well and has a good attack on the football.

At 19 years of age and 198cm, Laycock is also promising.

Overall though, I think MacIntosh would be the most likely prospect. With Hale coming in nicely, Hamish wil most likely be pushed back.

I think the Crows could really go for someone of his size and youth. A very exciting prospect.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I rate Laycock more than either of the Kangas boys.

Personally i would take Seaby over either of those but in reality it is highly unlikely that we will get either of them.

Our best bet is to draft someone and develop them. Someone with Angwin's ability but with Stenglein's maturity

No club will trade young gun ruckman for a reasonable trade. No matter how many good ruckman they have on the list. Just remember what Saints had to give up for Brooks

 

[coasting]

The thing about ruckmen is that you have to draft them years in advance. Hale was drafted in 2000 and Seaby in 2001. They are only just becoming regulars in 2004. If Angwin wasn't such a bust he would be at the same stage now and I guess thats where you guys really lost out. I just can't see Seaby wearing a crows uniform in the next few years. Look elsewhere

 

[Asgardian]

There is one reality that you guys, plus supporters from every club, must face up to---

Fringe/non-core players are not attractive to other clubs come trading period.

The only time they will be traded for, is if they are seen as a specific fix for a team structure problem.
eg Crows getting Scott Stevens

In the main fringe players tend to be delisted, then picked up in one of the two drafts, eg Collingwood getting Shane Wakelin.

To pick up a quality player by trade, you must offer quality, and not over-opinionated quality either. Forget about offering 2 or 3 okay quality players for a gun player, those type of trades are no longer done.

 

[Macca19]

Despite being bottom at the moment I dont think the Crows are in a completely awful position at the moment.

Youve got two very winnable games coming up against Richmond...who are probably the worst team going around at the moment, and Geelong who arent much better. Then its the Showdown and if Ports injury trend continues its more than possible you could win that. Then you are 3-4 and probably in 10th position.

Even if you only win 1 of those games, dont forget you have 8 home games in the second part of the year. Youve got a dream ride home in the last 3 weeks against very winnable opposition and Port.

Id say if you have 4 wins by Round 11 then youll make the finals.

If you win the next two weeks you will make the finals. If you dont then i dont think youll make it.

Remember...its not all over yet.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Macca19
Despite being bottom at the moment I dont think the Crows are in a completely awful position at the moment.

Youve got two very winnable games coming up against Richmond...who are probably the worst team going around at the moment, and Geelong who arent much better. Then its the Showdown and if Ports injury trend continues its more than possible you could win that. Then you are 3-4 and probably in 10th position.

Even if you only win 1 of those games, dont forget you have 8 home games in the second part of the year. Youve got a dream ride home in the last 3 weeks against very winnable opposition and Port.

Id say if you have 4 wins by Round 11 then youll make the finals.

If you win the next two weeks you will make the finals. If you dont then i dont think youll make it.

Remember...its not all over yet.

Spot on Macca. Some encouraging signs in the last two weeks and the second half against Brisbane.

We can still make the finals but it will be hard work

The biggest worry for mine is the forward line with no strong forwards at the minute. Perrie should come back in my view and Jericho should definitley be persevered with

One good thing is that guys like Hentschell Scheback Reilly and Jericho have all been getting good game time which will be good for next year and beyond.

Keep the faith boys and girls.

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
SEABY

You guys certainly rate Seaby!

Its an absolute certainty he won't be on the market. With Gardiner a perennial injury risk we need two quality ruckmen in the Eagles side other than him (look what happened when Cox went down with cramp in the last quarter v Essendon).

It seems more likely that Gardiner will be reinvented as a KP forward and pinch hitting in the forward line, so Cox and Seaby would move to being the ruck team.

We might be able to trade you Zac Beeck (who)

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Mr Q
You guys certainly rate Seaby!

Its an absolute certainty he won't be on the market. With Gardiner a perennial injury risk we need two quality ruckmen in the Eagles side other than him (look what happened when Cox went down with cramp in the last quarter v Essendon).

It seems more likely that Gardiner will be reinvented as a KP forward and pinch hitting in the forward line, so Cox and Seaby would move to being the ruck team.

We might be able to trade you Zac Beeck (who)

Zac Beeck?????? No thanks

I am a HUGE Seaby fan. What can I say the kid is a gun

We are extremely unlikely to get him now. I just hope we can draft someone as good as Seaby.

 

[Bockchoy67]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
We are extremely unlikely to get him now. I just hope we can draft someone as good as Seaby.

Hmm.. maybe someone like Daniel Batson, perhaps. Plays for the North Ballarat Rebels, is around 201cm, great leap and can play both ruck and KPP. Batson is also a very courageous and strong mark. His disposal has improved and he is a good set shot at goal.

He could be developed into a very good player. He is still growing too. He could soon be 202+cm and with his great leap, he is a great prospect.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by DaveW
We can't take the soft option.

Get rid of Ayres by year's end. The club needs a new direction.

He's free to do what he likes til he gets the chop.

I agree. He is already showing an inclination to play the young guys this season. By appointing him for another year to give him the security to look to the future I really don't think he could give the young guys any more of a go than he is already.

We shouldn't be too silly with this and play every young player we've got. The young players that are good enough to be playing AFL now need to be in a competitive team to help their own development. Is it better for Jericho, Watts, Krueger, Hentschel, Bock, Rutten to be in the same lineup getting thumped week after week because the team lacks quality and experience? Or is it better for a couple of them to be played in an experienced and competitive team and learning next to the veterans. You need a balance and we are currently playing as many youngsters as is sensible without throwing them all in the deepend at once.

For that reason there is no need to offer another year to Ayres.

Then in 2005, enter Shaun Rehn.


****

 

[Tas]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Spot on

We will not trade Biglands unless we get a better ruckman in return. The way Biglands would get traded is if he is a part of the package that gets a better ruckman. Someone like Ottens

Miller said they put every play out on feelers last year and nobody wanted to touch any of the big name players. I think Ottens is being paid a heap and you would have to take on the rest of his contract.

He is probably one of their best picks. Man, could you imagine Biglands and Stafford in the same team, talk about head shots.

The problem is if you start giving away a draft pick(s) plus Biglands for Ottens it would restrict the rebuilding process. I guess you wouldn't have to look for a ruckman though.

 

[naughty monkey]

AFC stuffed up by not trading/delisting some of the flankers last year. With the number of retirements at the end of this year there will be virtually no delistings, meaning some players will get an extra undeserved year on top of the one they just got. Very poor list management.

And we can speculate all we like about trading players to get a top 10 pick, but it won't happen. The few players on the list that would attract that sort of attention will be placed off limits by the football department.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by Bockchoy67
Hale played a very good game today against the Swans. At 200cm, he can take a good contest mark and disposes very well.

Hamish MacIntosh seems to not be able to get a game at North, yet plays consistently well for Port Melbourne. Despite being 202cm, Hamish seems to be more of a KPP than Hale, but can still leap well and has a good attack on the football.

At 19 years of age and 198cm, Laycock is also promising.

Overall though, I think MacIntosh would be the most likely prospect. With Hale coming in nicely, Hamish wil most likely be pushed back.

I think the Crows could really go for someone of his size and youth. A very exciting prospect.

Hale will be an awesome player. He can play forward, defense and ruck and has the ability to take contested marks.

Hamish is just a 19 year old teen who is more interested in following the female supporters in the crowd than the play but he is already a monster kid. 203cm and 101kg, he will probably put on a fair bit more weight aswell as he is bulking up.

Like Hale he is a very strong mark, good kick and is very good at either up forward or in the ruck. We invested heavily in those two, used both our first round picks on them, Hale was pick 7 in the legendary 2001 draft and McIntosh was pick 9 in the 2002 draft.

Both have been running amok in the VFL and no surprise our VFL team is undefeated.

I don't think North would trade either away, I think Laidley is drooling over the Hale/McIntosh combo in about 3 years.

You can have Porter though. Please take him... like today.

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Zac Beeck?????? No thanks

You sure? Only one owner, never used?

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I am a HUGE Seaby fan. What can I say the kid is a gun

We are extremely unlikely to get him now. I just hope we can draft someone as good as Seaby.

That's the key though isn't it. We drafted Seaby at 22 and he certainly looks like a bargain there even given it was the 2001 draft. Could be that draft is one of our best ever with Judd, Sampi and Seaby. Sadly for you guys you had a big chance but blew it on Carey. I know, easy to say after the fact.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Bockchoy67
Hmm.. maybe someone like Daniel Batson, perhaps. Plays for the North Ballarat Rebels, is around 201cm, great leap and can play both ruck and KPP. Batson is also a very courageous and strong mark. His disposal has improved and he is a good set shot at goal.

He could be developed into a very good player. He is still growing too. He could soon be 202+cm and with his great leap, he is a great prospect.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Wasn't he eligible to get drafted last year??????

If memory serves me correctly he was overlooked. He might have come on in leaps and bounds this year but last year he was not much of a prospect.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Tas
Miller said they put every play out on feelers last year and nobody wanted to touch any of the big name players. I think Ottens is being paid a heap and you would have to take on the rest of his contract.

Ottens comes out of contract at the end of the year. Thats why I was reffering to him.

Hell if we finish 16th then we could get Ottens for nothing in the pre-season draft.

 

[Asgardian]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Hell if we finish 16th then we could get Ottens for nothing in the pre-season draft.

The selection order of the next "Pre-Season Draft" is by lottery if I understand the rule changes correctly

It'll stop a "Nick Stevens" from happening again