i just hope we stick with the jolly wood combination and dont revert back to fraser. would like to see jolly rest in the goal square a bit more with wood given more responsibilty in the ruck. more of a 50/50 with these 2
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Roast Disspointed in Jolly
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Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
Wood got out rucked by hawkins and smashed by hawkins around the ground
If that was fraser there would be at least 2 50 post threads calling for Josh's head
I've just about had it with Wood.
All of the above is true.
On Jolly he was never great around the ground and never going to be. He is rucking ok and has the ability to get a true tap to advantage. He hasn't been rucking welling enough often enough, or as often as he has in the past but I think it's coming. At least I hope it is. He certainly does need to lift in that regard though. It is after all what we got him for. As someone else mentioned, he could certainly be used more foward as well.
Wood's last fortnight has just not been good enough. The youth and inexperince excuse is wearing thin and he certainly hasn't shown any real improvement during his time on the list which is worrying.
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6th year in the system.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
- Thread starter
- #31
So we might as well have Port Trade for him then
yeh and what has fraser done the last 6 years , personally i would have had wood against blake and jolly against hawkins. wood always going to struggle against a big opponent. and for fraser he is flat out beating peter bell in a contest, i have absolutely no faith in josh.
I think he's done well, but agree in the aspect of expecting more. Whether this means anything or not..
But Wood? I can't see Wood taking his mantle before... well, he retires. Wood at the moment isn't as confident overhood imo, doesn't seem nearly as good around the ground and Jolly is a very decent shot for goal.
I don't expect anything different though, how could you? Premiership ruckman/ CW... but still. Don't agree on that one
Just doesn't click with this kid that he has to work harder and toughen up. He'd want to start showing something.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
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I'm not concerned yet. I think he was on par with Blake on Friday and seemed to be rucking under done if his training schedule was anything to go by. Before this he had been working his way into good form. Imagine how our ruck division would look without him and with a Fraser/Brown/Wood combo. He was worth every skerick we gave up to get him. He's made us a better side. He needs to improve, no doubt we havn't seen his best, but i'm still happy with the trade and confident it will pay dividends.
just noticed we are 15th in the league for hit outs 
Pretty damning unless we have a truckload less stoppages. I did notice the 2 best teams for hitouts, Freo and WC have the 1st and 3rd spots on first possessions. We, though only 15th for hitouts, are fortunately 7th for 1st possessions.just noticed we are 15th in the league for hit outs
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No way. Blake smashed him.
I don't think he smashed him. I think par is a stretch too, It's all pointless regardless because Blake certainly shouldn't be the yardstick when measuring your ruckmen.
Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
Jolly was beaten not smashed, in fact after half time it was jolly getting clear taps to clear mids that set us off, Blake got the points but it wasn't a smashing. Wasn't until jolly got moved forward and wood to ruck that Geelong dominated the midfield again (3 goals in roughly 8 mins) Hawkins not even Blake
On wood I'm glad others are finally seeing what I've pointed out for 18 months, softness and laziness had nothing to do with youth ever, it was and always be between the ears. In fact even his forward work was inept, worse then Fraser inept.
daics_35
Club Legend
Jollys career started of at Melbourne and he was no good for em because he had to play at the MCG most weeks then he went up to Sydney and dominated at the SCG and now at Collingwood where we play at the MCG most of ten time he has the same form he did when he was at Melbourne. I dont think he is a fan of the MCG and also if you look at the stats when Sydney played in the grand final at the MCG, Jolly had a poor game with less then 10 touches. I am very disapointed in Jolly and to give 2 draft picks for him and to be still 15th in the Comp for hit outs its very disapointing. I think Jolly would make a great forward has a good mark and he is tall + he has a good shot at goal so i think we need to go back with Fraiser as number one ruck becuase he doesnt give many frees away.
Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
The ground would have nothing to do with, game style probably, ground especially for ruckman has nothing to do with it
TradeDraft
Post-Human
- Thread starter
- #43
Yeah, He has the Skills and Potential but between his Ears you do wonder a bit. Needs to lift his work rate
TradeDraft
Post-Human
- Thread starter
- #44
True and I did say that Jolly does make us a better side but still needs to improve to get what we payed for him
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Yam yam
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He's probably not playing as well around the ground as he could, but his presence has freed up Fraser/Wood.
I'm not disappointed with Jolly, I think the mere presence of the man has given us a more fluid and flexible lineup, but as has been said before, I'd be happy to see him getting some form behind him.
I'm not disappointed with Jolly, I think the mere presence of the man has given us a more fluid and flexible lineup, but as has been said before, I'd be happy to see him getting some form behind him.
He really has to stop giving away crappy stoppage free kicks that really hurt us on the scoreboard. It's really irritating how many arm locking frees he gives away. Stop effing locking arms at ball ups!
Josh back, Woody outski.
Josh back, Woody outski.
leons magic
Debutant
I agree Darren Jolley has been disappointing. Sure i knew he was never a Sandilands or Cox and is no match winner. The question is not whether he has improved the side which he clearly has, but is whether he has lived up to expectations on past achievements and whether he was worth what we gave for him, which at the moment i dont believe he is.
Jolley was drafted as a pure ruckman with great centre bounce work and good ability going forward. The stats show that in his five seasons where he was at Sydney he ended each of those seasons ranked in the top five ruckman for hithouts, last yr having the most hitouts in the league averaging 31 hitouts a game. Currently he is ranked 9th in the AFL, averaging only 20 hitouts a game just four more than Josh Fraser was averaging last year. Jolley has always been ranked highly in free kicks against, but at the moment leads the league and is closing in on his total from last year. The stats clearly show that he is down on form, and from what i have seen this year he has only shown glimpses of what he did so consistantly with Sydney which was dominating the hitouts and being more than serviceable up forward. In saying this he is obviously a better option than Fraser and Wood and has improved the side, but i think he has more to his game than he is currently showing us, and hopefully that will shine through when he is more settled in the side because we did outlay two picks one being a first rounder (Lewis Jetta) whose pace could have been more than useful down the track. Also the fact that Jolley is turning 29 adds abit more pressure.
RE: the Fraser vs Wood debate, imo you have to play Wood. Those calling woods efforts soft must realise that Fraser has been putting in similar efforts for the latter part of his career, and i think most importantly we know what Josh has to offer, hes been given his time, his body is battered and his performances are on the decline. Wood although he has been average at best has been no better or worse than Fraser this yr imho and if given the chance he could (possibly) turn into a good back up ruckman and the player that we all want him to be. Fraser on the hand is past it, he will show glimpses of his ability once every 5 games, and by playing him will block Woods developement. At the end of the day we gave up a first round pick for Wood, so the club obviously believes in his ability, and i am yet to lose faith in him. Ruckman take time to develop and need game time. Take a look at Mark Jamar, he is flourishing this year with sole duties in the ruck and extra responsibilities at the age of 26 when we all thought he was a dud. Jolley also took many season to mature as do most ruckman, as rarely do the burst on scene like Nic Nat, so lets give Woody a fair go and hope Jolley ups the ante.
Jolley was drafted as a pure ruckman with great centre bounce work and good ability going forward. The stats show that in his five seasons where he was at Sydney he ended each of those seasons ranked in the top five ruckman for hithouts, last yr having the most hitouts in the league averaging 31 hitouts a game. Currently he is ranked 9th in the AFL, averaging only 20 hitouts a game just four more than Josh Fraser was averaging last year. Jolley has always been ranked highly in free kicks against, but at the moment leads the league and is closing in on his total from last year. The stats clearly show that he is down on form, and from what i have seen this year he has only shown glimpses of what he did so consistantly with Sydney which was dominating the hitouts and being more than serviceable up forward. In saying this he is obviously a better option than Fraser and Wood and has improved the side, but i think he has more to his game than he is currently showing us, and hopefully that will shine through when he is more settled in the side because we did outlay two picks one being a first rounder (Lewis Jetta) whose pace could have been more than useful down the track. Also the fact that Jolley is turning 29 adds abit more pressure.
RE: the Fraser vs Wood debate, imo you have to play Wood. Those calling woods efforts soft must realise that Fraser has been putting in similar efforts for the latter part of his career, and i think most importantly we know what Josh has to offer, hes been given his time, his body is battered and his performances are on the decline. Wood although he has been average at best has been no better or worse than Fraser this yr imho and if given the chance he could (possibly) turn into a good back up ruckman and the player that we all want him to be. Fraser on the hand is past it, he will show glimpses of his ability once every 5 games, and by playing him will block Woods developement. At the end of the day we gave up a first round pick for Wood, so the club obviously believes in his ability, and i am yet to lose faith in him. Ruckman take time to develop and need game time. Take a look at Mark Jamar, he is flourishing this year with sole duties in the ruck and extra responsibilities at the age of 26 when we all thought he was a dud. Jolley also took many season to mature as do most ruckman, as rarely do the burst on scene like Nic Nat, so lets give Woody a fair go and hope Jolley ups the ante.
- Banned
- #48
As I said around trade time last year, it was always going to be impossible for Jolly to match his hit-out numbers that he was putting up in Sydney, as Sydney have a much higher number of ruck contests per game.
That said, I predicted something like 24 hit-outs/game for Jolly had he maintained his form of last year, so at 20 he's still about 4 short of where he needs to be.
Still, considering the form of Wood and Fraser, our 1st+3rd in a so-so draft for a structurally important player remains a good deal, even at his current output.
Jolly has been woeful at the centre bounce, he is timid. When the ball is bounced he doesn't focus on the ball, instead looking at the opposing ruck to prepare himself for body contact and then at the last second he tries to locate the ball.....it has been frustrating the sh1t out of me.
You mention Jamar......Jamar reckons Jolly is soft...he would know and so far the Russian is being proven to be correct.
Anybody else noticed Jolly not watching the ball at the centre bounce??
He used to be good at boundary throw ins, but for some reason being pinged for stuff that he used to get away with in Sydney seems to have sapped his confidence.
Very poor from all 3 of our rucks this year.....but as usual Josh cops the biggest towelling from supporters. Imagine the uproar if Josh was beaten in the ruck by Hawkins like Wood was!? Wood is supposed to be a good tap ruck....he cant even beat a pinch hitting ruck at the moment, and he offers nothing around the ground.
We have gone from nothing in the ruck but an extra midfield option around the ground with Fraser.
To hardly anything in the ruck, due to Jolly being soft, and nothing around the ground as Jolly and Wood hardly touch the ball.
Very poor considering many thought the ruck was a supposed strength now!
leons magic
Debutant
Fraser has played that bad this year and has copped it. There is always an uproar about his performances because we have seen it all before. Hes soft and looks disinterested, and can never get his body right. He is past it. I agree with you on the fact Wood was terrible last week and has had an ordinary few games, but he needs to be given time. He had an interrupted start to the year with injury and the coaching staff need to let him find his feet in the side. The point i was trying make is that he needs to be given a run of games ahead of Fraser, like the period last year in which i thought he was impressive. He's young and needs game time to develop and to show us whether he has the goods or not. Playing Fraser achieves nothing at this stage, his performances are on par with Woods at the moment apart from one stand out game. Why would want to play Fraser when he and Wood are practically playing at the same standard. Wood is our future, Fraser is the past. I think some people are expecting Josh to come out next week and play like it was 2003 for the rest of this season, which is not going to happen, so lets put our faith in Wood and see what hes got for the rest of the year.
