Opinion Do you honestly think bringing in 5 traded players was the right move?

[st_trav_ofWA]

the only player im still scratching my head about is bringing in Abbott ... an older guy with very little experiance is unlikely to click and become a player when we have Roma and Ryder well in front of him ..

Hill is a top line player i dont care how but when a top line player nominates you as his prefered destination you make sure you get him .. losing Acres to land him was a shame but i can say im much much happier he is going to a Longmiur led freo not a Lyon led Freo because i cant see Longmuir doing any better than Richo when it comes to getting the most out of Blake i can see them trying to make Blake their versitile player that he is just so/so at being.. if Lyon was coach he would see the traits Blake is really strong at and coach him in a way that he is only asked to do the things he is strong at doing (much like how Lyon made Clint jones a player by hiding the fact he cant kick but he can tackle and run all day)

Jones doesnt get much love in here but i think he is going to bring some much needed hardness in the middle , he is fast and he isnt affraid to get dirty i think we will in 6 months time be singing his praises as a favorite

Howard im keeping the lid on about .. we have seen it many times where aplayer has a break out season then gets traded starts to rest on the laurels so im not going to get to excited just yet

Butler not sure how he fits the plan but he did get picked to play in the last game in September in 2017 for a reason at 23 he has a fair scope to grow as a player so bringing that finals experiance sure has its benefits..

Ryder look his best is behind him, he isnt going to be the AA ruckman he once was but hes a big body and he is a billion times the player of the likes of Longer and Lewie hes also a top bloke with the fans so ive heard and is really seeing his third club as a real breath of fresh air so i reckon we will get some good games out of him...

Losing Stuv wasnt great but he was gone last year so it was inevitable he was not going to continue with us the positive is his very best was playing in the RWB he will still have good games at geelong no doubt but i cant see him reaching what he gave us ..

Bruce i reckon was understanding that having a player checked out of the club isnt great for the club and us denying him his wish to get to the dogs and finding the security they offered i think would have turned into a negative for us

Newnes never came back from that one fantastic season and really needed a change of environment

so over all what we gained and what we lost with the understanding of what was available in the draft this year im pretty happy with how it turned out

 

[goodie23]

the only player im still scratching my head about is bringing in Abbott ... an older guy with very little experiance is unlikely to click and become a player when we have Roma and Ryder well in front of him ..

Abbott is insurance, Roma goes down we need someone more ready to support Ryder than Alabaksis. And if we annoyed those tight-arses at the Cattery, bonus.

 

[PostmanBish]

Great Post. Who's in your 22?

I really haven't formulated a best 22 yet ... still trying to work out who the new scapegoat will be with Newnes and Acres both moving on ...

More seriously, it is likely to take a bit more time, and understanding of Ratt's gameplan, before we can really work out what our best 22 is - we have a lot of wildcards. Will Max King be able to make an immediate impact and front up for Round 1? Does Battle play forward, back, or swing depending on need? Will Long be playing forward, back, or elsewhere? What will a full preseason do for Matty Parker after getting 17 games into him last season? Can Geary regain best 22 after a wrecked 2019? Who will step up, enable beastmode, and emerge as our next A-grader?

Many, many answers to come ... and better people than me who will make those calls, but I do kinda wish I was working in the analytics department (my work background) because the numbers in 2020 will be fascinating.

Cheers,

Bish

 

[PostmanBish]

Abbott is insurance, Roma goes down we need someone more ready to support Ryder than Alabaksis. And if we annoyed those tight-arses at the Cattery, bonus.

I'd like to think it was a little bit of payback ... worst case he rucks his heart out for Sandy, learns a few new tricks from Ryder, and covers our butts if Roma or Ryder go down for some reason.

 

[PostmanBish]

No point making the effort for that Marvel game against Geelong PostmanBish

From what we have all been told Jack is totally incapable of playing football outside of the greater Geelong area.

Due to mental health reasons, he will only be playing 9 games in 2020 and won't be available for finals unless the AFL backflip on their policy for the Cats.

It would be VERY interesting were he to play every game EXCEPT that one, wouldn't it?

If you're fit to be picked, you're fair game ...

Bish

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'd like to think it was a little bit of payback ... worst case he rucks his heart out for Sandy, learns a few new tricks from Ryder, and covers our butts if Roma or Ryder go down for some reason.

Ryder AND Roma.

 

[ScrappyDo]

the only player im still scratching my head about is bringing in Abbott ... an older guy with very little experiance is unlikely to click and become a player when we have Roma and Ryder well in front of him ..

Hill is a top line player i dont care how but when a top line player nominates you as his prefered destination you make sure you get him .. losing Acres to land him was a shame but i can say im much much happier he is going to a Longmiur led freo not a Lyon led Freo because i cant see Longmuir doing any better than Richo when it comes to getting the most out of Blake i can see them trying to make Blake their versitile player that he is just so/so at being.. if Lyon was coach he would see the traits Blake is really strong at and coach him in a way that he is only asked to do the things he is strong at doing (much like how Lyon made Clint jones a player by hiding the fact he cant kick but he can tackle and run all day)

Jones doesnt get much love in here but i think he is going to bring some much needed hardness in the middle , he is fast and he isnt affraid to get dirty i think we will in 6 months time be singing his praises as a favorite

Howard im keeping the lid on about .. we have seen it many times where aplayer has a break out season then gets traded starts to rest on the laurels so im not going to get to excited just yet

Butler not sure how he fits the plan but he did get picked to play in the last game in September in 2017 for a reason at 23 he has a fair scope to grow as a player so bringing that finals experiance sure has its benefits..

Ryder look his best is behind him, he isnt going to be the AA ruckman he once was but hes a big body and he is a billion times the player of the likes of Longer and Lewie hes also a top bloke with the fans so ive heard and is really seeing his third club as a real breath of fresh air so i reckon we will get some good games out of him...

Losing Stuv wasnt great but he was gone last year so it was inevitable he was not going to continue with us the positive is his very best was playing in the RWB he will still have good games at geelong no doubt but i cant see him reaching what he gave us ..

Bruce i reckon was understanding that having a player checked out of the club isnt great for the club and us denying him his wish to get to the dogs and finding the security they offered i think would have turned into a negative for us

Newnes never came back from that one fantastic season and really needed a change of environment

so over all what we gained and what we lost with the understanding of what was available in the draft this year im pretty happy with how it turned out

Abbott is there for vfl only. It seems like they've twigged to needing detter development,,,,finally..

 

[NeXus Nick]

I have wondered if Nexus was Parrot

Hello my friend.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Abbott is insurance, Roma goes down we need someone more ready to support Ryder than Alabaksis. And if we annoyed those tight-arses at the Cattery, bonus.

still as insurance only surely we could have kept Longer or Lewie as a rookie as that back up insurance .. to me bringing in a guy who is 28 years old with a grand total of 5 AFL games to his name isnt improving us and isnt really insurance considering he has had back issues himself that has seen him sidelined for long periods of time ... if we wanted insurance there are better younger players we could have looked at.. i see Abbott joining the likes of Ryan Gamble and Charlie Gardiner as Geelong rejects we wasted a list spot on securing

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I'd like to think it was a little bit of payback ... worst case he rucks his heart out for Sandy, learns a few new tricks from Ryder, and covers our butts if Roma or Ryder go down for some reason.

at 28 is there many tricks really we can expect him to learn ?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Abbott is there for vfl only. It seems like they've twigged to needing detter development,,,,finally..

if he is VFL only then why waste a list spot on him ?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

still as insurance only surely we could have kept Longer or Lewie as a rookie as that back up insurance .. to me bringing in a guy who is 28 years old with a grand total of 5 AFL games to his name isnt improving us and isnt really insurance considering he has had back issues himself that has seen him sidelined for long periods of time ... if we wanted insurance there are better younger players we could have looked at.. i see Abbott joining the likes of Ryan Gamble and Charlie Gardiner as Geelong rejects we wasted a list spot on securing

I'm sure we would have kept one of Longer or Lewis if they didn't both have to retire due to concussion.

 

[BrutThough]

still as insurance only surely we could have kept Longer or Lewie as a rookie as that back up insurance .. to me bringing in a guy who is 28 years old with a grand total of 5 AFL games to his name isnt improving us and isnt really insurance considering he has had back issues himself that has seen him sidelined for long periods of time ... if we wanted insurance there are better younger players we could have looked at.. i see Abbott joining the likes of Ryan Gamble and Charlie Gardiner as Geelong rejects we wasted a list spot on securing

Base case scenario, Abbot never plays a game for us. If in 1-2 years time when he is delisted he hasn't played a game in that period, then it is a massive win for everyone at the club.

Maybe we did look at these other, younger players and determined that they actually weren't better than Abbott as a back up option or we would have had to give up something more than nothing for our insurance policy.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I'm sure we would have kept one of Longer or Lewis if they didn't both have to retire due to concussion.

retire / Delist .... even if both were as you say legit retirements there are better younger Rucks plying their trade in the lower ranks who have more upside than Abbott has ... he is 28 do we really think he is going to get better as a player ? his durability is questionable having a back injury as a ruckman as well...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

if he is VFL only then why waste a list spot on him ?

To me , if we get injuries to Marshall and Ryder, he gets a game.
We'd be unlucky , but its not impossible.
Similarly... Pattison got on the Hawks list after StKilda de-listed him.
Cam Wood went to Carlton
Trent West had an 11 year career.
Brent Renouf got a job at Port.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Base case scenario, Abbot never plays a game for us. If in 1-2 years time when he is delisted he hasn't played a game in that period, then it is a massive win for everyone at the club.

Maybe we did look at these other, younger players and determined that they actually weren't better than Abbott as a back up option or we would have had to give up something more than nothing for our insurance policy.

you may be right .... im sure the club have forgotten more than i know when it comes to spotting AFL potential but from what i have seen and what ive read about Abbott im not sold on him being anything but a list clogger ... but ive been wrong more than a few times i was convinced Will Johnson was going to be a star for us ... i was convinced Llayne Spaanderman was going to be a super star of the AFL and i didnt rate Matt Priddis as an AFL level player early on so im happy to be proven wrong by Ryan Abbott

 

[ScrappyDo]

if he is VFL only then why waste a list spot on him ?

Well lets look at it.
Alabakis isn't up to it.
Bell is a string bean.

Ryder and/or Roma might be injured.
If they both play in the 1sts as expected, then we wouldn't have a proper ruck in vfl, nor a backup.

If you look at Ryder as a fill in KPF, which l honesty think he is, then we need a backup dedicated ruck.

I think it's pretty straight forward tbh..

 

[Mangus]

Most examples of this kind of mass recruiting have not worked "Crazy Vossy" anyone. Trading is best used once you have your core group already in place and you are challenging the good sides. You then trade to address specific needs that can take you from challenger to contender. The Bulldogs are the best example this year. Their core is good enough to challenge, but their list is unbalanced lots of midfield A grade talent and real gaps in the key positions. They targeted players that can address that specific weakness and are ready to help now. Our core group by comparison is pretty thin and based a lot on projected improvement/development of unproven youngsters. King Bytel Clark Coffield Gresham Billings Marshall Battle are hopefully the base of the next contending Saints team but none of them are locks to be A grade yet. They will need time to mature as footballers so best case we are 3 - 5 years from being ready to top up for a flag tilt. Of those we brought in Howard Jones and Butler will still be in their prime when we are ready to contend and add to that core group we are in the process of building.

Unfortunately the older end of our list is a train wreck both in terms of talent and leadership. So Hannerbury last year, Hill and Ryder this year were needed to help us through this transition period and ensure we are at least competitive and the young core learn the right lessons and see some light at the end of the tunnel. Not to mention pacify the supporters.

So this was a necessary reset - patch some of the mistakes of the past - and trust we have the right core group in development

 

[BrutThough]

you may be right .... im sure the club have forgotten more than i know when it comes to spotting AFL potential but from what i have seen and what ive read about Abbott im not sold on him being anything but a list clogger ... but ive been wrong more than a few times i was convinced Will Johnson was going to be a star for us ... i was convinced Llayne Spaanderman was going to be a super star of the AFL and i didnt rate Matt Priddis as an AFL level player early on so im happy to be proven wrong by Ryan Abbott

I think your assessment of him being a list clogger type is spot on. But thats what we recruited him for - to sit in the VFL and pray we never to have play him, and if we do, he is at least a developed and competent enough player to run out a whole game without screwing up our structure.

 

[Lenny2020]

We took Bell, so there’s a young ruck with upside. We needed a senior bloke like Abbott who was happy to be fourth in line.

 

[plugger66]

It would be VERY interesting were he to play every game EXCEPT that one, wouldn't it?

If you're fit to be picked, you're fair game ...

Bish

So mental jibes are ok? Sounds like that’s what you mean. Surely not.

 

[NeXus Nick]

Well lets look at it.
Alabakis isn't up to it.
Bell is a string bean.

Ryder and/or Roma might be injured.
If they both play in the 1sts as expected, then we wouldn't have a proper ruck in vfl, nor a backup.

If you look at Ryder as a fill in KPF, which l honesty think he is, then we need a backup dedicated ruck.

I think it's pretty straight forward tbh..

I'm just wondering ScrappyDo, how did you come to the conclusion that Alabakis is "not up to it"?
I am very interested to know how you determined this to be the case. He has been at the club for 12 months so he has only played a maximum of 20 games.
I am assuming that you have watched at least 15 of his games live?
Actually I'll bet you have never seen him play and you have actually NFI. Your assertion is a disgrace and an outright lie.

I have seen him live in 5 games and he is great below his knees for someone so tall (211cm). The 2 main areas he needs to work on are his tank and his kicking. Another couple of pre-seasons and we will know if he will make it. To write him off after only 12 months in the system is a disgrace and you should receive a 2 week ban.

 

[plugger66]

I'm just wondering ScrappyDo, how did you come to the conclusion that Alabakis is "not up to it"?
I am very interested to know how you determined this to be the case. He has been at the club for 12 months so he has only played a maximum of 20 games.
I am assuming that you have watched at least 15 of his games live?
Actually I'll bet you have never seen him play and you have actually NFI. Your assertion is a disgrace and an outright lie.

I have seen him live in 5 games and he is great below his knees for someone so tall (211cm). The 2 main areas he needs to work on are his tank and his kicking. Another couple of pre-seasons and we will know if he will make it. To write him off after only 12 months in the system is a disgrace and you should receive a 2 week ban.

You didn’t even know he played half the year in the ammos so I will take it with a grain of salt you have seen one game let alone 5. Banned for having an opinion. That’s a new one.

 

[BrutThough]

I'm just wondering ScrappyDo, how did you come to the conclusion that Alabakis is "not up to it"?
I am very interested to know how you determined this to be the case. He has been at the club for 12 months so he has only played a maximum of 20 games.
I am assuming that you have watched at least 15 of his games live?
Actually I'll bet you have never seen him play and you have actually NFI. Your assertion is a disgrace and an outright lie.

I have seen him live in 5 games and he is great below his knees for someone so tall (211cm). The 2 main areas he needs to work on are his tank and his kicking. Another couple of pre-seasons and we will know if he will make it. To write him off after only 12 months in the system is a disgrace and you should receive a 2 week ban.

That fact that he had to go play at Ammos level last year is a big indicator he isnt up to it.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm just wondering ScrappyDo, how did you come to the conclusion that Alabakis is "not up to it"?
I am very interested to know how you determined this to be the case. He has been at the club for 12 months so he has only played a maximum of 20 games.
I am assuming that you have watched at least 15 of his games live?
Actually I'll bet you have never seen him play and you have actually NFI. Your assertion is a disgrace and an outright lie.

I have seen him live in 5 games and he is great below his knees for someone so tall (211cm). The 2 main areas he needs to work on are his tank and his kicking. Another couple of pre-seasons and we will know if he will make it. To write him off after only 12 months in the system is a disgrace and you should receive a 2 week ban.

Because they brought in another guy to play that position ahead of him.