Opinion What do you think Ross will change?

[Saintos The ITK]

it does not seem reason to say that Ratten had no buy in with the players especially in the first 2 years. he must've lost buy in in 2022 as it looked to me like the players could not be bothered

The more I read the

it does not seem reason to say that Ratten had no buy in with the players especially in the first 2 years. he must've lost buy in in 2022 as it looked to me like the players could not be bothered

sammm the more I read from posters on here the more I thing Ratts was not a coach. I love the bloke but he’s and assistant that’s his level.
Thank * we’ve moved on.

 

[Plugger35]

What do you think Ross will change?​

The boring crap pressers and interviews we had to listen to with Ratts & Richo

Ross will make us relevant again, win or lose everyone takes notice of Ross in the pressers, no one took any notice of Ratts or Richo even when we won.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Well unless he improves the win/loss ratio, its a big who gives a Ratts from me.

 

[gringo2011]

Well unless he improves the win/loss ratio, its a big who gives a Ratts from me.

Fair enough but I'll be happy just to see some systemic improvement inside the footy department. Something has been broken there for a long time. Recruiting, training of both skills and game plan, strategic planning, long term vision etc. If we kept bumbling along the same path we were in for years of unguided mediocrity.

At a minimum Lyon has implemented two fantastic systems. Freo were nearly in the identical position to us when he took over. Kind of middling with no real plan of how to bridge the gap. You look at Sydney and how well run they are and he comes from the genesis of that.

Geelong have also run another incredibly well planned and implemented system and after 15 years of hardly missing a finals series have just added their 4th flag in that time. We we flying when they started their era but have bottomed out and then got stuck in second gear ever since.

Results are secondary to me, as long as we build a foundation or platform to start building a future off. Up until now we are throwing bricks into a sinkhole and hoping that eventually enough solid mass will hit the bottom to start filling it up.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Fair enough but I'll be happy just to see some systemic improvement inside the footy department. Something has been broken there for a long time. Recruiting, training of both skills and game plan, strategic planning, long term vision etc. If we kept bumbling along the same path we were in for years of unguided mediocrity.

At a minimum Lyon has implemented two fantastic systems. Freo were nearly in the identical position to us when he took over. Kind of middling with no real plan of how to bridge the gap. You look at Sydney and how well run they are and he comes from the genesis of that.

Geelong have also run another incredibly well planned and implemented system and after 15 years of hardly missing a finals series have just added their 4th flag in that time. We we flying when they started their era but have bottomed out and then got stuck in second gear ever since.

Results are secondary to me, as long as we build a foundation or platform to start building a future off. Up until now we are throwing bricks into a sinkhole and hoping that eventually enough solid mass will hit the bottom to start filling it up.

Yeah right - as long as we look good, you're happy for us to lose every game.

50/50 win/loss ratio over the last 3 years tells me the talent is there. If Lyon is a better coach than Ratten then that ratio should rise. End of story!!!

 

[Mowman]

Yeah right - as long as we look good, you're happy for us to lose every game.

50/50 win/loss ratio over the last 3 years tells me the talent is there. If Lyon is a better coach than Ratten then that ratio should rise. End of story!!!

So do you think Ross is a better coach then Ratts ?

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeah right - as long as we look good, you're happy for us to lose every game.

50/50 win/loss ratio over the last 3 years tells me the talent is there. If Lyon is a better coach than Ratten then that ratio should rise. End of story!!!

Not what he said. I agree with gringo, at the beginning of the second decade of the century we were primed to be a Geelong type club with sustained success.
As series of terrible decisions followed by poor list management consigned us to, as gringo says second gear. We had hope that this or that messiah would pull us out of the mire.
Turns the messiah was Bassett, a ruthless Kent who has completely cleaned out the training and admin.
There is an old adage, you may not win a flag with a good admin, but you will never win one with a bad one.
We were moribund. Stuck in a rut for a decade, I saw no change and literally chucked in my membership after 32 years. What they have done is completely transform the club, from coaching, list management, football operations, and high performance and fitness.
Yes sure win/loss is the final measure, however the foundations need to be in place before the house can be built. 2023 is a foundation year.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah right - as long as we look good, you're happy for us to lose every game.

50/50 win/loss ratio over the last 3 years tells me the talent is there. If Lyon is a better coach than Ratten then that ratio should rise. End of story!!!

Happy to delay gratification. I don't want to lose but something had to change dramatically. Stats mean nothing because our list isn't static and neither are the competition's. If we improve 100% but others improve by 500% we aren't moving forward. I think Lyon will win more games longer term regardless. Just think that systems will take time to implement in all likelihood.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With Harvey, Hayes and Enright ,it doesn't really matter if Lyon is a better coach. We only need general direction.
In fact Lyon is a better coach for setting it up that way.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Happy to delay gratification. I don't want to lose but something had to change dramatically. Stats mean nothing because our list isn't static and neither are the competition's. If we improve 100% but others improve by 500% we aren't moving forward. I think Lyon will win more games longer term regardless. Just think that systems will take time to implement in all likelihood.

Ha ha ha - yeah and if we improve 3.5% and the rest only improve 2% then we are moving forward.

Lyon is not some millennial disrupter middle manager who comes in destroys the place so that he can sit back and bathe in the glory when the promised magnificent phoenix arises from the ashes (or in reality have moved on to a new job before the s*** really hit the fan)

He's had 13 seasons of experience with a 60% win/loss record.

So if Lyon is really as good as you, Stav and others think, then it should be a doddle for him to improve the systems while simultaneously improving the win/loss ratio.

And given the status of St Kilda within the hierarchy of the AFL/broadcast arrangements, that means we need to be playing finals rather than finishing bottom 4 like Essendon or Carlton and still expecting to be being treated as a "powerhouse'.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yeah right - as long as we look good, you're happy for us to lose every game.

50/50 win/loss ratio over the last 3 years tells me the talent is there. If Lyon is a better coach than Ratten then that ratio should rise. End of story!!!

He missed finals his first year at Freo. How does one explain that then?

 

[saintmike65]

Not what he said. I agree with gringo, at the beginning of the second decade of the century we were primed to be a Geelong type club with sustained success.
As series of terrible decisions followed by poor list management consigned us to, as gringo says second gear. We had hope that this or that messiah would pull us out of the mire.
Turns the messiah was Bassett, a ruthless Kent who has completely cleaned out the training and admin.
There is an old adage, you may not win a flag with a good admin, but you will never win one with a bad one.
We were moribund. Stuck in a rut for a decade, I saw no change and literally chucked in my membership after 32 years. What they have done is completely transform the club, from coaching, list management, football operations, and high performance and fitness.
Yes sure win/loss is the final measure, however the foundations need to be in place before the house can be built. 2023 is a foundation year.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

We were fit last year but lacked structure and system.. this year I reckon we’re even fitter but now have both structure and system under the boss.
I’ve been really impressed with our collective of assistant coaches, work well together & seem to be on the same page.
BJ is impressive as a development coach..in fact if I didn’t know any better would have sworn he’s been doing it for years!

 

[saintmike65]

Happy to delay gratification. I don't want to lose but something had to change dramatically. Stats mean nothing because our list isn't static and neither are the competition's. If we improve 100% but others improve by 500% we aren't moving forward. I think Lyon will win more games longer term regardless. Just think that systems will take time to implement in all likelihood.

I don’t believe it’ll take that long to gel the boss’s game plan.
It’s mainly based on run and quick ball movement, something Geelong tweaked & won a flag!

 

[Joffaboy]

We were fit last year but lacked structure and system.. this year I reckon we’re even fitter but now have both structure and system under the boss.
I’ve been really impressed with our collective of assistant coaches, work well together & seem to be on the same page.
BJ is impressive as a development coach..in fact if I didn’t know any better would have sworn he’s been doing it for years!

Yes fitness was there. That's why I was so struck early on when I went to training late November how intense it was compared to what I had seen over the previous years. Lyon said he could have the training at higher intensity than expected because of the good fitness base.
I thought I was looking at it with rose coloured glasses, you know seeing Harv's, bj, and Lenny back at the club with RTB lurking in the background. I was gratified that other track watchers (I take it you are one saintmike65?) were of the same opinion.
Posters I respect on here like stav and gringo and others have warned that 2023 may be a transition year learning the Lyon way.
I am in two minds. I understand their caution and to damper expectations after over a decade in the wilderness is something that is not unwarranted. Also learning a new structure as a list can be fraught and lead to some ordinary performances over the season. So I see where the caution comes from.

OTOH, as the eternal optimist, I feel we had the building bocks in place for Lyon and his assistants to come in and get the team up and going very quickly. Fitness is the basis of everything, even if the gameplan and structures aren't completely gelling during the course of a game, a fit team can still pull off an ugly win. Once the structure is consistent and the gameplan constant and working, a superior fitness level can turn the season into an exceptional one (see 2009).

So as the eternal fence sitter I am cautiously optimistic about 2023.

 

[stavro#4]

I don’t believe it’ll take that long to gel the boss’s game plan.
It’s mainly based on run and quick ball movement, something Geelong tweaked & won a flag!

It’s the defensive structure I’m concerned about.

Not sure a lot of these boys can play and hold a defensive zone to a high standard.

You admittedly have probably been to more sessions than me this summer. But of the match sim ones I’ve seen. There was ALOT of players getting challenged on their defensive positioning when they were without ball - especially to counter turnover and defend the deep kick.

 

[stavro#4]

And for what it’s worth in topic.

Better question is what has RTB and Walsh kept the same.

 

[saintmike65]

Yes fitness was there. That's why I was so struck early on when I went to training late November how intense it was compared to what I had seen over the previous years. Lyon said he could have the training at higher intensity than expected because of the good fitness base.
I thought I was looking at it with rose coloured glasses, you know seeing Harv's, bj, and Lenny back at the club with RTB lurking in the background. I was gratified that other track watchers (I take it you are one saintmike65?) were of the same opinion.
Posters I respect on here like stav and gringo and others have warned that 2023 may be a transition year learning the Lyon way.
I am in two minds. I understand their caution and to damper expectations after over a decade in the wilderness is something that is not unwarranted. Also learning a new structure as a list can be fraught and lead to some ordinary performances over the season. So I see where the caution comes from.

OTOH, as the eternal optimist, I feel we had the building bocks in place for Lyon and his assistants to come in and get the team up and going very quickly. Fitness is the basis of everything, even if the gameplan and structures are completely gelling during the course of a game, a fit team can still pull off an ugly win. Once the structure is consistent and the gameplan constant and working, a superior fitness level can turn the season into an exceptional one (see 2009).

So as the eternal fence sitter I am cautiously optimistic about 2023.

Yes, being retired I get to training once a week, can’t at the moment though unfortunately I’m unable to drive.
I had no idea how we were going to be last year but more bullish this year knowing we have a quality coach.
I also like what I’m seeing with the assistant coaches..plus BJ seems to be making his presence felt!

 

[saintmike65]

And for what it’s worth in topic.

Better question is what has RTB and Walsh kept the same.

Running, running & more running!

 

[Joffaboy]

It’s the defensive structure I’m concerned about.

Not sure a lot of these boys can play and hold a defensive zone to a high standard.

You admittedly have probably been to more sessions than me this summer. But of the match sim ones I’ve seen. There was ALOT of players getting challenged on their defensive positioning when they were without ball - especially to counter turnover and defend the deep kick.

Interesting. Our defence setup was OK in the first part of 2022. I think this is where the midfield plays an important part of the defence. Midfield pressure takes so much pressure off the backline.

Would be of great interest if any track watcher had seen any real change in midfield defensive set up or personnel who may stiffen the defensive side. And it is not just tackling it is defensive positioning when attacking the man with the ball, it is forcing him on to his non preferred, or body contact to the side to make the kick less effective. I really feel we missed an opportunity because of covid with Billy Slater.
Watching him transfer his League skills to AFL was marvellous. Watching him work with the mids on tackle technique and body pressure was a real eye opener.

 

[saintmike65]

It’s the defensive structure I’m concerned about.

Not sure a lot of these boys can play and hold a defensive zone to a high standard.

You admittedly have probably been to more sessions than me this summer. But of the match sim ones I’ve seen. There was ALOT of players getting challenged on their defensive positioning when they were without ball - especially to counter turnover and defend the deep kick.

The boss will find out which players are capable of following team structure.
He prowl’s around at training & misses nothing!!

 

[saintmike65]

Interesting. Our defence setup was OK in the first part of 2022. I think this is where the midfield plays an important part of the defence. Midfield pressure takes so much pressure off the backline.

Would be of great interest if any track watcher had seen any real change in midfield defensive set up or personnel who may stiffen the defensive side. And it is not just tackling it is defensive positioning when attacking the man with the ball, it is forcing him on to his non preferred, or body contact to the side to make the kick less effective. I really feel we missed an opportunity because of covid with Billy Slater.
Watching him transfer his League skills to AFL was marvellous. Watching him work with the mids on tackle technique and body pressure was a real eye opener.

This is where Windhager will be so vital with his elite running power, natural aggression & discipline.
I’m hoping for a different midfield starting mix because as a collective, Steele, Crouch & Ross aren’t quick enough or dynamic enough.
There is now far more emphasis on mid set ups at training, with Lenny & BJ taking charge!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We were fit last year but lacked structure and system.. this year I reckon we’re even fitter but now have both structure and system under the boss.
I’ve been really impressed with our collective of assistant coaches, work well together & seem to be on the same page.
BJ is impressive as a development coach..in fact if I didn’t know any better would have sworn he’s been doing it for years!

Truth be known he probably did it for a long time while he was still playing.

 

[stavro#4]

Interesting. Our defence setup was OK in the first part of 2022. I think this is where the midfield plays an important part of the defence. Midfield pressure takes so much pressure off the backline.

Would be of great interest if any track watcher had seen any real change in midfield defensive set up or personnel who may stiffen the defensive side. And it is not just tackling it is defensive positioning when attacking the man with the ball, it is forcing him on to his non preferred, or body contact to the side to make the kick less effective. I really feel we missed an opportunity because of covid with Billy Slater.
Watching him transfer his League skills to AFL was marvellous. Watching him work with the mids on tackle technique and body pressure was a real eye opener.

The boss will find out which players are capable of following team structure.
He prowl’s around at training & misses nothing!!

You boys are highlighting my point.

Dawson wasn’t better than Maxxy in 09.

But he knew and understood how to effectively play in a zone defence - where as Max struggled.

I had Aaron Hamill say that to me.

So yeah I believe Ross will figure it out. But I think it will take games to work out who he trusts to deliver.

That’s why I’m not 100% sold on finals this season + the unknown of Max.

 

[sammm]

I don’t believe it’ll take that long to gel the boss’s game plan.
It’s mainly based on run and quick ball movement, something Geelong tweaked & won a flag!

what about skill level? as in the previous iteration of Ross sometimes it wasn't as important

 

[saintmike65]

what about skill level? as in the previous iteration of Ross sometimes it wasn't as important

We won’t be the most skilled team in the comp but if we use the running power properly, we can hopefully minimise turnover damage.
The boss will demand defensive running as well as offensive running.
Melbourne got themselves super fit 2 years ago and look at their improvement as a result..as they’re confidence went up, seemingly so did there skill level & decision making.
Collingwood similarly last year!!