Dog act!

[Moo]

What should they have done differently?

Simple

NOT change coach

Harvey should've been given the chance to prove himself next year with a healthier list.

Had he failed, then yes, he probably would've got sacked and there wouldn't be as many complaints, that's for sure. It would've been sad and I'd certainly be disappointed but I'd accept it.

The way it's been done bears a disturbing resemblance to Julia Gillard and her knifing of Kevin Rudd and such a method is wrong.

Is there a perfect method of sacking a coach and getting a replacement? There never will be a perfect method.

I think it's the manner of execution, the underhandedness and the suddeness of it which has gotten people offside and again divided the supporter base

Unless you have also found a way to stop Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands from ageing ......I'd rather not give Harves another year so you can feel better abut the decision.

Oh and ...

 

[dominguez]

Simple

NOT change coach

Harvey should've been given the chance to prove himself next year with a healthier list.

The way it's been done bears a disturbing resemblance to Julia Gillard and her knifing of Kevin Rudd and such a method is wrong.

Is there a perfect method of sacking a coach and getting a replacement? There never will be a perfect method.

I think it's the manner of execution, the underhandedness and the suddeness of it which has gotten people offside and again divided the supporter base

In 2001 we didn't have a coach and won the wooden spoon. The club dragged its heals while the mob up the road wanted Neill Craig. The Fremantle Football Club decided that John Worsfold was the best candidate, but decided to run another round of inteviews. Word leaked out that Worsfold was leading the race, Craig knocked back the eagles job, and they pounced on Woosha.

That was ten years ago. Now you're suggesting that we should have persevered with a guy who clearly wasn't up to it (after doing so for 2 and half years with his predecessor) then see who is out there in 12 months? Then what, spend another decade looking in the rear vision mirror and thinking woulda/coulda/shoulda?

Had he failed, then yes, he probably would've got sacked and there wouldn't be as many complaints, that's for sure. It would've been sad and I'd certainly be disappointed but I'd accept it.

There wouldn't be as many complaints if we missed the 8 and sacked the coach? You may want to support a club where the priority is to be nice to people and the second priority is winning, but I'd much rather give Harvey the heave ho now knowing in my mind that he wasn't the man for the job instead of wasting another 12 months.

I'm sure Matthew Pavlich, Aaron Sandilands and Luke McPharlin feel the same way.

Look at it in terms of draft picks, we've just traded pick 13 for pick 4.

 

[Moo]

You're not breaking anything to me, and I expected better from you. Perhaps I misread your character as it seems I'm out of step with so many things these days.

How does one read a character on an internet forum?

Know this about my character .......I want to see Freo win a flag. Simply everything is about this.

If the Board don't think Harvey is the man and have secured a better candidate ...that is OK in my book, in fact it is their responsibility to do so.

You have played footy at a high level if I recall? Hard decisions have to be taken - time will tell if it is the right one.

If it is the wrong one, well then the Steves should pay the price with their jobs.

I am grateful to Harvey for getting the list to an OK position, however perhaps I ain't as angry because I agree I don't think Harvey was the man to take us that step further.

 

[electricfeel]

Was tongue in cheek - that's usually how it pans out yeh?

Oh righto! Sorry, just woke up and hadn't read everything yet.

Play on!

 

[sportsmaniac89]

In 2001 we didn't have a coach and won the wooden spoon. The club dragged its heals while the mob up the road wanted Neill Craig. The Fremantle Football Club decided that John Worsfold was the best candidate, but decided to run another round of inteviews. Word leaked out that Worsfold was leading the race, Craig knocked back the eagles job, and they pounced on Woosha.

That was ten years ago. Now you're suggesting that we should have persevered with a guy who clearly wasn't up to it (after doing so for 2 and half years with his predecessor) then see who is out there in 12 months? Then what, spend another decade looking in the rear vision mirror and thinking woulda/coulda/shoulda?

Well back then, it's fair to say the board were very ordinary indeed. We could've had Worsfold but we ended up with Connolly. They made the decision and yeah it didn't work out either.

What I'm suggesting is probably the most ethical and commonsense way of doing it. Every other club would after an injury-hit season give their coach another year to prove themselves except for us. We have injuries and suddenly the board turfs Harvey.

Who knows who could've been out there in 12 months?

As for that decade analogy, yeah, no-one knows what would happen in the corresponding decade at all but we'd still be an honourable club.

Now, I don't actually know what we stand for. Decency and commonsense cannot be applied to the Fremantle Football Club anymore

There wouldn't be as many complaints if we missed the 8 and sacked the coach? You may want to support a club where the priority is to be nice to people and the second priority is winning, but I'd much rather give Harvey the heave ho now knowing in my mind that he wasn't the man for the job instead of wasting another 12 months.

I'm sure Matthew Pavlich, Aaron Sandilands and Luke McPharlin feel the same way.

Look at it in terms of draft picks, we've just traded pick 18 for pick 4.

I want to support a club that is winning but I also want to support a club that does the right thing to ensure the future will be bright.

What Fremantle have done doesn't ensure the future will be bright at all. We could end up with a flag and if so, well, that would be the best thing but it could all go pear-shaped and then we have to have another 10-15 year rebuild because of Ross Lyon screwing up the list.

 

[The Night Shift]

Some very high horse's galloping around today...

 

[dominguez]

I guess what it boils down to afl08 is whether you rate Ross Lyon and Mark Harvey as AFL coaches.

Personally I think Harvey clearly wasn't the man for the job and we've traded up so it's a massive win despite the obvious disappointment felt by Harvey who is likeable but at the same time that's somewhat irrelevant.

The grass is always greener from my end, but I guess you see it as better the devil you know.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

How does one read a character on an internet forum?

Know this about my character .......I want to see Freo win a flag. Simply everything is about this.

If the Board don't think Harvey is the man and have secured a better candidate ...that is OK in my book, in fact it is their responsibility to do so.

You have played footy at a high level if I recall? Hard decisions have to be taken - time will tell if it is the right one.

If it is the wrong one, well then the Steves should pay the price with their jobs.

I am grateful to Harvey for getting the list to an OK position, however perhaps I ain't as angry because I agree I don't think Harvey was the man to take us that step further.

Yes, this is an internet forum, but after thousands of posts over many years, certain character traits shine through.

I know, for instance, that you feel strongly about the poor treatment of aboriginal people. This is something we share, and reflects back on your statement that real life is hard and mean. It is mean, that's for sure, but it is often made hard by our life choices. In my own town I could live an easy life by going along with the general flow of bigotry, but I don't. I prefer to stand up against some of the injustices I see and that makes my life hard. I make certain ethical choices in my daily life which mean I spend more money than I might otherwise need to, this also makes my life hard.

I'm pretty sure they still teach very young footballers the ideal that winning isn't everything. I know that at AFL level that's a very naive, and clearly unacceptable, concept, but I think there are still ways that ethical considerations can be accommodated. The way Mark Harvey has been treated is distasteful in the extreme and I am surprised that so many people seem keen on defending it.

If hard decisions taken to win are your cup of tea, will you be as happy if Lyon decides that Pavlich and Sandilands have limited upside in the short term and trades them away for younger players if this move results in a premiership?

One thing that is pretty clear is that the Steve's will never be held accountable for this decision if it turns out not to be the panacea that some supporters believe it will. They will simply remove the coach again and move on. There is no accountability at board level.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

I guess what it boils down to afl08 is whether you rate Ross Lyon and Mark Harvey as AFL coaches.

Personally I think Harvey clearly wasn't the man for the job and we've traded up so it's a massive win despite the obvious disappointment felt by Harvey who is likeable but at the same time that's somewhat irrelevant.

The grass is always greener from my end, but I guess you see it as better the devil you know.

With a better injury list, I rate Mark Harvey definitely.

As for Ross Lyon, good coach but really shit person on so many levels.

1. Doesn't develop youth
2. Mortgages future chasing short-term success which is what this is really about
3. That ****ing strut
4. That smug look on his face
5. 5 years down the track, we could be left with a trainwreck cause of Ross and will then have to rebuild heavily again.
6. The way he lied to St Kilda
7. The way he conducted talks without telling his management

 

[Polly]

Well back then, it's fair to say the board were very ordinary indeed. We could've had Worsfold but we ended up with Connolly. They made the decision and yeah it didn't work out either.

What I'm suggesting is probably the most ethical and commonsense way of doing it. Every other club would after an injury-hit season give their coach another year to prove themselves except for us. We have injuries and suddenly the board turfs Harvey.

Who knows who could've been out there in 12 months?

As for that decade analogy, yeah, no-one knows what would happen in the corresponding decade at all but we'd still be an honourable club.

Now, I don't actually know what we stand for. Decency and commonsense cannot be applied to the Fremantle Football Club anymore



I want to support a club that is winning but I also want to support a club that does the right thing to ensure the future will be bright.

What Fremantle have done doesn't ensure the future will be bright at all. We could end up with a flag and if so, well, that would be the best thing but it could all go pear-shaped and then we have to have another 10-15 year rebuild because of Ross Lyon screwing up the list.

^Do you vote Greens by any chance?

I like Harves but his first year as senior coach (2008) he trundled out the same old dead wood Round 1 and was crucified for it. He was basically told to clean out the list and start rebuilding. 2008 and 2009 were pretty much seasons to forget but he and the recruiting staff did pick up some great talent, whether that is down to Harvey or the rest of the Footy Dept we'll never really know.
2010 was a break out season with excellent defensive pressure around the ground and quick counterattacking football through the middle. I have not seen any of this style of football at any stage this season, even in the early rounds. I don't think it is a coincidence that Geelong are smashing the forward press by playing quick movement through the middle.
Harves gave the list a good shakeup but I think it is fairly evident he is lacking tactically and out of ideas, in my opinion he would be a fantastic development coach within a club where he can spend more one on one time with the young players.
I think the club has handled it very well to be honest, there has been no endless speculation and bidding wars for coaches played out in the media, there are a number of coaches available this year who would of locked in three year contracts with new clubs, if we were going to change coaches it had to be now whilst the best candidates were available. The board realised this and should be commended for it.
Harves is hardly destitute, he will receive a payout on his remaining year and will be free to pursue other positions, the only thing damaged is his ego which is a credit to him as he is a proud man.
Fremantle had to take the opportunity whilst it presented itself, as for Lyon not telling his agent, what else could he do! Both himself and Harvey are managed by the same group which would have been a major conflict of interest. I have to say I think the whole thing has been managed and executed very professionally.
Whether Ross Lyon can take us to the next level is to be seen, I think some of the defensive qualities of the Saints wouldn't be lost on our current group to be honest, too many capitulations for my liking. Anyway Im excited about 2012, all the best Harves thank you for your dedication to the FFC and good luck to Ross. Lets see what can be achieved next year.

 

[Angelus]

As for Ross Lyon, good coach but really shit person on so many levels.

1. Doesn't develop youth At St Kilda, Will be different at Freo
2. Mortgages future chasing short-term success which is what this is really about Again, Did at St Kilda, won't at Freo
3. That ****ing strut And that makes him a shit person how???
4. That smug look on his face Post a picture of yourself please
5. 5 years down the track, we could be left with a trainwreck cause of Ross and will then have to rebuild heavily again. 5 years down the track we could have a Premiership and need to re-build again...Only now we have a better chance at that due to Lyon
6. The way he lied to St Kilda I hate St Kilda so F&%k em!!!!
7. The way he conducted talks without telling his management
I hate managers MORE than I hate St Kilda so Double F%$k em!!

make of that what you will

 

[sportsmaniac89]

^Do you vote Greens by any chance?

I like Harves but his first year as senior coach (2008) he trundled out the same old dead wood Round 1 and was crucified for it. He was basically told to clean out the list and start rebuilding. 2008 and 2009 were pretty much seasons to forget but he and the recruiting staff did pick up some great talent, whether that is down to Harvey or the rest of the Footy Dept we'll never really know.
2010 was a break out season with excellent defensive pressure around the ground and quick counterattacking football through the middle. I have not seen any of this style of football at any stage this season, even in the early rounds. I don't think it is a coincidence that Geelong are smashing the forward press by playing quick movement through the middle.
Harves gave the list a good shakeup but I think it is fairly evident he is lacking tactically and out of ideas, in my opinion he would be a fantastic development coach within a club where he can spend more one on one time with the young players.
I think the club has handled it very well to be honest, there has been no endless speculation and bidding wars for coaches played out in the media, there are a number of coaches available this year who would of locked in three year contracts with new clubs, if we were going to change coaches it had to be now whilst the best candidates were available. The board realised this and should be commended for it.
Harves is hardly destitute, he will receive a payout on his remaining year and will be free to pursue other positions, the only thing damaged is his ego which is a credit to him as he is a proud man.
Fremantle had to take the opportunity whilst it presented itself, as for Lyon not telling his agent, what else could he do! Both himself and Harvey are managed by the same group which would have been a major conflict of interest. I have to say I think the whole thing has been managed and executed very professionally.
Whether Ross Lyon can take us to the next level is to be seen, I think some of the defensive qualities of the Saints wouldn't be lost on our current group to be honest, too many capitulations for my liking. Anyway Im excited about 2012, all the best Harves thank you for your dedication to the FFC and good luck to Ross. Lets see what can be achieved next year.

No I'm not a Greens voter at all but thanks for the query

Harves made mistakes certainly (who doesn't) but he rebuilt with the help of the recruiting department.

He was the first Fremantle coach to rebuild from the draft and it's netted us some absolute beauties (Fyfe, Barlow, Silvagni, Morabito etc)

He should've been given the chance to prove himself with a healthier list and the fact he wasn't is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned

Yeah we now have to pay Harves out and then somehow find the money to pay Ross Lyon which means less money to the areas that really need it.

If it's professional to knife a coach in such a dramatic manner then shit, we live in one ****ed up world where people aren't given a chance to learn from their mistakes.

As far as I'm concerned Ross Lyon is walking into a very poisoned situation where if he screws up, he will get villified along with the club. Is he the answer? Who knows. Right now though, I'm expecting much improved performances in Melbourne next year and if Lyon doesn't deliver, I'll be there at the race ready to unload on that smug, scummy excuse for an individual.

2012 could be a very dramatic year and I suspect that the Fremantle board will be under the pump too.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

make of that what you will

Crap! Crap! More Crap!

Oh and no, I won't be posting a picture of myself either but I'm quite flattered at the request

 

[Moo]

Yes, this is an internet forum, but after thousands of posts over many years, certain character traits shine through.

Nah, you're right Reg I'm still great - we just disagree on this issue

 

[Chops_a_must]

Classic Harvey media interview post loss.

Got him yes!!!

Well this is extraordinary indeed. People mocking someone for having the right to express their decision to hand back their membership. The lack of class from several in this thread is frankly disappointing and this bears all the hallmarks of last pre-season when we were divided over the jumper and logo. To those resorting to mockery as opposed to reasoned arguments, seriously, it's pathetic.

Of course handing back a membership is a very extreme measure and perhaps is taking it a little too far but the essentials of what the OP is saying is correct

The way Mark Harvey was treated was a DOG ACT
The way Mark Harvey was left out to dry was a DOG ACT
The way he was knifed so spectacularly for someone who shits people was a DOG ACT
The way we've now appointed a coach that's going to turn our gameplan into a defensive and dour style is a DOG ACT
The people responsible for this have committed the ultimate DOG ACT

Gwumpy shuggie!


I vote Greens by the way.

FFC is not a charity anymore.

 

[Boppo]

Hi Neisha, don't take these comments to your OP personally. Seems to me that diehard fans can't afford to be affronted by the turn of events, this is their world and they need to be on the bandwagon in 2012.

For me this whole affair has left a dirty taste in the mouth and if we miss going deep into Spetember next year you'll be vindicated.

Harvey was a better coach than he's been credited with (our list isn't as great as Freo fans like to think) he did well with what he had at his disposal. He seemed really keen on the club and this kick in the guts wasn't deserved by a long shot.

Sure its a modern business but buying/selling coaches and players (how many fans in these forums see an upside in buying Fev??) and ditching others in was taken to a new level yesterday. I'd rather an organic premiership than one delievered by a bunch of mercenaries.

 

[The Night Shift]

Yes, this is an internet forum, but after thousands of posts over many years, certain character traits shine through.

Mere words, contrived rhetoric through to drunken drivel that appears on this forum is not an insight into a persons character. Most people don't even treat this place seriously, just a mere time deversion.
No one is exactly like their posting persona.

 

[leeloo]

Hi Neisha, don't take these comments to your OP personally. Seems to me that diehard fans can't afford to be affronted by the turn of events, this is their world and they need to be on the bandwagon in 2012.

For me this whole affair has left a dirty taste in the mouth and if we miss going deep into Spetember next year you'll be vindicated.

Harvey was a better coach than he's been credited with (our list isn't as great as Freo fans like to think) he did well with what he had at his disposal. He seemed really keen on the club and this kick in the guts wasn't deserved by a long shot.

Sure its a modern business but buying/selling coaches and players (how many fans in these forums see an upside in buying Fev??) and ditching others in was taken to a new level yesterday. I'd rather an organic premiership than one delievered by a bunch of mercenaries.

How about we just aim for a premiership, organic or not

 

[Angelus]

Crap! Crap! More Crap!

Oh and no, I won't be posting a picture of myself either but I'm quite flattered at the request

He failed to develop young people at St Kilda becuase he has seen how their older players react with young people at the club. Kinda like not bringing in Rick James at WCE during their drug phase. Smart move I say....

So you like St Kilda then?

You like managers and the way they parasite and lie as a profession? Even though as we have seen here it is MORE EFFECTIVE to not have them.

 

[Polly]

He was the first Fremantle coach to rebuild from the draft and it's netted us some absolute beauties (Fyfe, Barlow, Silvagni, Morabito etc)

He should've been given the chance to prove himself with a healthier list and the fact he wasn't is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned

If it's professional to knife a coach in such a dramatic manner then shit, we live in one ****ed up world where people aren't given a chance to learn from their mistakes.

As far as I'm concerned Ross Lyon is walking into a very poisoned situation where if he screws up, he will get villified along with the club. Is he the answer? Who knows. Right now though, I'm expecting much improved performances in Melbourne next year and if Lyon doesn't deliver, I'll be there at the race ready to unload on that smug, scummy excuse for an individual.

2012 could be a very dramatic year and I suspect that the Fremantle board will be under the pump too.

It is what it is, AFL teams and board success is determined by results on the field which then usually equate to positive results in the ledger. Personally I think Harves was at the limits of his capabilities in this particular role and the board seemed to think so too. They did what a good board does and acted upon it and recruited what they believe to be an improved skill set to achieve the results the club requires. Im interested to know how else they should have handled it based on the performance indicators for an AFL team. What would keeping him on for another year achieved except make everybody feel better?
If you want the warm and fuzzies go and volunteer down at the local amateur leagues and play/coach/support for the pure enjoyment and love for football. For better or for worse this is a professional league where the participants are paid well to perform.
I certainly hope the players and board are under pressure next year, thats how you stay focussed and driven.
Sorry about the Greens quip

 

[sportsmaniac89]

He failed to develop young people at St Kilda becuase he has seen how their older players react with young people at the club. Kinda like not bringing in Rick James at WCE during their drug phase. Smart move I say....

So you like St Kilda then?

You like managers and the way they parasite and lie as a profession? Even though as we have seen here it is MORE EFFECTIVE to not have them.

1. Indictment on the older players if that's true but frankly, I find that bewildering

2. I feel sorry for St Kilda today with the way Lyon knifed them and the way we seemingly encouraged it (or did Ross approach us about a job)

3. No of course I'm not a fan of managers and the way they parasite and lie but I'm also not a fan of underhanded scum tactics to knife someone

 

[E Shed]

^Do you vote Greens by any chance?

I like Harves but his first year as senior coach (2008) he trundled out the same old dead wood Round 1 and was crucified for it. He was basically told to clean out the list and start rebuilding. 2008 and 2009 were pretty much seasons to forget but he and the recruiting staff did pick up some great talent, whether that is down to Harvey or the rest of the Footy Dept we'll never really know.
2010 was a break out season with excellent defensive pressure around the ground and quick counterattacking football through the middle. I have not seen any of this style of football at any stage this season, even in the early rounds. I don't think it is a coincidence that Geelong are smashing the forward press by playing quick movement through the middle.
Harves gave the list a good shakeup but I think it is fairly evident he is lacking tactically and out of ideas, in my opinion he would be a fantastic development coach within a club where he can spend more one on one time with the young players.
I think the club has handled it very well to be honest, there has been no endless speculation and bidding wars for coaches played out in the media, there are a number of coaches available this year who would of locked in three year contracts with new clubs, if we were going to change coaches it had to be now whilst the best candidates were available. The board realised this and should be commended for it.
Harves is hardly destitute, he will receive a payout on his remaining year and will be free to pursue other positions, the only thing damaged is his ego which is a credit to him as he is a proud man.
Fremantle had to take the opportunity whilst it presented itself, as for Lyon not telling his agent, what else could he do! Both himself and Harvey are managed by the same group which would have been a major conflict of interest. I have to say I think the whole thing has been managed and executed very professionally.
Whether Ross Lyon can take us to the next level is to be seen, I think some of the defensive qualities of the Saints wouldn't be lost on our current group to be honest, too many capitulations for my liking. Anyway Im excited about 2012, all the best Harves thank you for your dedication to the FFC and good luck to Ross. Lets see what can be achieved next year.

This, exactly this. All of it but especially bolded bit.

 

[yakka man]

Let's be honest here, no one has all the facts. For all we know Chris Scott was the reason behind our improvement last year, for all we know the players may not respect Harvey, for all we know it was his decision to rush players back that has contributed to our staggering 16 post season operations and for all we know this could be the massive wake up call that our list needs.

The sacking of a coach is never easy and there is no correct way to do it. From all reports Ross Lyon has approached us and therefore believes that he can take us to the top. His win/loss ratio speaks for itself.

It truly is a shocking turn of events and from an outside perspective Harvey could not be blamed for the huge amount of injuries we have sustained this year. But let's wait for the press conference before people start calling up and cancelling their memberships. We don't know the full story.

 

[Angelus]

1. Indictment on the older players if that's true but frankly, I find that bewildering

2. I feel sorry for St Kilda today with the way Lyon knifed them and the way we seemingly encouraged it (or did Ross approach us about a job)

3. No of course I'm not a fan of managers and the way they parasite and lie but I'm also not a fan of underhanded scum tactics to knife someone

The first one was a joke in reference to the school girl/developing young players. Don't read too much into it

As for feeling sorry for St Kilda, DON'T.....They have shafted ALOT of coaches in their pathetic excuse for an existence so they had it coming from them.

Also, after a history as they have had, this is giving them something besides their horrible record to whinge about, So you could look at it as us doing them a favour in the off season.....At least this time the only one being screwed against their will is St Kilda....

 

[Goldnbrown]

Hawks supporter here, never posted on another teams forum before. As a neutral, I say well done to Freo, showing the ruthless edge to win a flag. Were never going to win one with your existing coach.