List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[WaynesWorld19]

Guy getting angry that we are considering Collins is angry because it's suggested we shouldn't be considering Bonner, when we have Smith, Laird, Seedsman, Brown, Jaensch, Wigg. Or Burton, when we have Walker, Jenkins, Lynch and Menzel. Something about black kettles.
Fact of the matter is, Jenkins, Lynch and Menzel are a lot more locked into the Best 22 than Hartigan/Cheney/Lever as second tall are.

Do you have a point, or just rambling

 

[Danger in Texas]

Just something I don't get Wayne's-World - you say we don't need flankers like Tucker, yet you want Bonner... what's the difference?

 

[baldandbroke]

How much interest do we have in Bonner? Sure he needs some polish, but his natural kicking style looks the goods to me.

 

[hendo8888]

Do you have a point, or just rambling

You're literally arguing against your own argument. And it's just glorious.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just something I don't get Wayne's-World - you say we don't need flankers like Tucker, yet you want Bonner... what's the difference?

Good point ...we don't that's why i doubt Bonner is in our sights

But it's the same argument as us needing another stopper KPD ......we just simply don't have a need, despite peoples protestations

All i was saying was if you consider Collins, then you have to consider Bonner

The AFC has traditionally with first round picks gone "skeleton" ....i've said this b4 but most ignore what is posted & just continue with their own POV"s

2014 ....Lever (KPD)
2103 .....M.Crouch (midfield)
2012 .....absent
2011 ....absent
2010 ....Brodie Smith (he was recruited as a midfielder not HBF)
2009 .....Talia (KPD)
2008 ....P.Davis (KPD)

So we in first round go structure & then 2nd round more the flesh ......that's a generalization but supported by last 7 drafts

I expect our first 2 x first round picks to be consistent with that philosophy

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You're literally arguing against your own argument. And it's just glorious.

I am still asking ...do you actually have any point to make ...or just want to throw stones instead of mounting some sort of argument?

 

[Vader]

Exactly what i thought ......but don't clubs take best available ? .....if you know the draftees just rank them in talent .....pick any Phantom you care to plagiarise

To a certain extent, it makes no difference - and thus Bicks is right to ignore them.

We have no control over what players are selected before our first pick (currently #9 overall). We can only choose from the players who are still available at that selection. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to discuss players relevant to Adelaide's selections, without having to discuss all of the other clubs' selections as well. It's simply a case of saying "here is my order of merit - we take the highest ranked player on this list who hasn't already been selected by another club".

The only variation on this is the case where the club has 2 selections in close proximity to each other. We could use our knowledge of the clubs with picks between ours (Carlton & Richmond) to guess which players they are likely to draft. This may result in us taking players out of their normal "order of merit". For example, say we want 2 players - X & Y, rating X ahead of Y. Normally we would draft X with pick #9 and that would be the end of it. However, if we think Carlton & Richmond are keen on Y but not X, then we might select Y at #9 and hope that X will survive to #13. This is fraught with danger, because getting it wrong means missing out on the player we actually rated more highly.

 

[LC40]

So who were all the posters defending Hartigan and lambasting me because i said he's hopeless

So you want to use the 1st Round Picks ....not on talent, not on list need, but because there's a media report and it sounds a good idea

Show me your posts or anyone talking about drafting Collins a week ago ......wasn't it a good idea a week ago ? ....or just not topical

I'm beginning to change my mind as well on who we should take.
Our forward line is taking shape nicely, Menzel,Jenkins Betts,Lynch,Walker and Cameron looks potent
Our midfield definitely needs some upgrading as you can't lose your best clearance player without taking a hit.
I'm sure our first pick goes to improve that.

Until Paddy left our back line has been our area of greatest need and IMO it is still in need of some work.
Can't see Lever being that KPP player,just not quite big enough in physique ;wiry body type.(Don't care how much gym he does.)
Lever is so creative when he has the ball and chances his arm that I'm sure he'll be that third defender who has some license to back his judgement and leave his man. Don't need him or want him to be a lock down dour defender.

We now have Lever, Hampton,Smith, Janesch, Chaney,Wigg, VB ,even Seedman who can rotate through that back line at times. We have options in that position.
I still feel we are in need of a big bodied defender to take on those big forwards like Dixon, Tippett, Hawkins.

Collins is starting to appeal to me because teams with big bodies forwards or numerous talls have caused us trouble.
Yes we have Talia and Hartigan but to have another big presence there who can compete equally in terms of height and stature. with those opponents would be very handy. If one of them goes down we have very little backup.
Collins is a big man now at 18 years, 193cm and 94kg he will only get stronger and more assured as he matures.
I'm leaning towards him with pick 13.

LC40, Oct 21, 2015EditDeleteReport
#1109+Reply

I posted this on Oct 21st.
Wayne, Collins has been in the conversation for awhile. I've said all along I'll think we'll go big and a midfielder. This is IMO the managements strategy .So many pointers lead me to think that way.The reported interest from the Crows in H McKay, B Mckay, Collins, Hipwood and Himmelberg. All of these blokes are tall's and been mentioned quite a bit.
Depending on the way the draft falls (of course),Collins has to be very much in the mix.

Could be way off the mark but I think he's a chance to come to us.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

To a certain extent, it makes no difference - and thus Bicks is right to ignore them.

We have no control over what players are selected before our first pick (currently #9 overall). We can only choose from the players who are still available at that selection. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to discuss players relevant to Adelaide's selections, without having to discuss all of the other clubs' selections as well. It's simply a case of saying "here is my order of merit - we take the highest ranked player on this list who hasn't already been selected by another club".

The only variation on this is the case where the club has 2 selections in close proximity to each other. We could use our knowledge of the clubs with picks between ours (Carlton & Richmond) to guess which players they are likely to draft. This may result in us taking players out of their normal "order of merit". For example, say we want 2 players - X & Y, rating X ahead of Y. Normally we would draft X with pick #9 and that would be the end of it. However, if we think Carlton & Richmond are keen on Y but not X, then we might select Y at #9 and hope that X will survive to #13. This is fraught with danger, because getting it wrong means missing out on the player we actually rated more highly.

The difference this year is that there are players that could be taken anywhere between 4 and 13
Francis could go at 4 or could go to us at #9 ......so in fact you do have to have an understanding of clubs and players b4 us

It is not inconceivable that Weideman will be available at #9 given his poor athletic testing

So i don't agree with the argument your presenting ......but nice to be talking on a logical level again

 

[Vader]

Good point ...we don't that's why i doubt Bonner is in our sights

But it's the same argument as us needing another stopper KPD ......we just simply don't have a need, despite peoples protestations

All i was saying was if you consider Collins, then you have to consider Bonner

The AFC has traditionally with first round picks gone "skeleton" ....i've said this b4 but most ignore what is posted & just continue with their own POV"s

2014 ....Lever (KPD)
2103 .....M.Crouch (midfield)
2012 .....absent
2011 ....absent
2010 ....Brodie Smith (he was recruited as a midfielder not HBF)
2009 .....Talia (KPD)
2008 ....P.Davis (KPD)

So we in first round go structure & then 2nd round more the flesh ......that's a generalization but supported by last 7 drafts

I expect our first 2 x first round picks to be consistent with that philosophy

You may be drawing that analogy a bit too far..

Davis was drafted because we knew that we had to start planning for the retirements of Bock & Rutten. Little did we know that Bock & Davis would both defect to the startup clubs.
Talia was selected as the "best available" player, despite the fact that we didn't really require another tall defender at that point in time. Carlton shocked everyone by not selecting him, so Adelaide grabbed him as the player they rated as being clearly the best available at that point in the draft.
Lever was very much a "needs based" selection, with Rutten having just retired and Hartigan being unproven as the only real support for Talia.

Our 1st round drafting has been equally influenced by "best available" and "needs based" over this period.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You may be drawing that analogy a bit too far..

Davis was drafted because we knew that we had to start planning for the retirements of Bock & Rutten. Little did we know that Bock & Davis would both defect to the startup clubs.
Talia was selected as the "best available" player, despite the fact that we didn't really require another tall defender at that point in time. Carlton shocked everyone by not selecting him, so Adelaide grabbed him as the player they rated as being clearly the best available at that point in the draft.
Lever was very much a "needs based" selection, with Rutten having just retired and Hartigan being unproven as the only real support for Talia.

Our 1st round drafting has been equally influenced by "best available" and "needs based" over this period.

Bock was still a number of years b4 retirement ......and there were suggestions Davis could and had played CHF

That said, my point was that we use first round picks for the sides skeleton ....and i see that continuing

 

[Vader]

The difference this year is that there are players that could be taken anywhere between 4 and 13
Francis could go at 4 or could go to us at #9 ......so in fact you do have to have an understanding of clubs and players b4 us

It is not inconceivable that Weideman will be available at #9 given his poor athletic testing

So i don't agree with the argument your presenting ......but nice to be talking on a logical level again

How does this make any difference at all? He's either available, or he's not. We have no control over which players are selected before pick #9. If he's available, and he's the highest ranked player on our "order of merit" list, then we grab him. If he's not available, we cross his name out and move onto the next name on the list. It really is that simple (most of the time).

All the club does is generate a list of players, in this case about 20 players long. They work their way down the list, crossing names off as players are selected. The highest ranked player still available at our selection is the name read out by the AFC representative.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Honestly, all of this arguing about what we are most in need of suggests one thing - we are in desperate need of depth. We are covered for starting 22 KPF's, KPD's, SF's, SD's and even mids - our best few players are very good. However, our depth is really not that good - a lot of our depth consists of players who need to make a stamp on 2016. We are in need of depth all around the ground. This suggests that we need to cover the areas we are lacking in quality the most. To me, this is outside class. If you count Smith as a SD, we have Seed, Knight, Hampton, Atkins. All have potential, but none have got there just yet. We really need to cover our weak areas just in case all of these players don't succeed. Even KPD's - Hartigan screams 'good depth' to me, so getting a good defender like Collins or Francis in is a priority in my mind.

 

[Vader]

Bock was still a number of years b4 retirement ......and there were suggestions Davis could and had played CHF

That said, my point was that we use first round picks for the sides skeleton ....and i see that continuing

The only "skeleton" players the club planned to select in that time were Davis & Lever. Talia just fell into their laps. Crouch & Smith aren't "skeleton" players. Lever's selection was due to a dire need.

 

[Apsaalooke]

How much interest do we have in Bonner? Sure he needs some polish, but his natural kicking style looks the goods to me.

Looks like a quicker version of Grigg, minus the trampoline

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How does this make any difference at all? He's either available, or he's not. We have no control over which players are selected before pick #9. If he's available, and he's the highest ranked player on our "order of merit" list, then we grab him. If he's not available, we cross his name out and move onto the next name on the list. It really is that simple (most of the time).

All the club does is generate a list of players, in this case about 20 players long. They work their way down the list, crossing names off as players are selected. The highest ranked player still available at our selection is the name read out by the AFC representative.

I understand the process .....so?

I am not sure what point you're trying to make ......IIRC you were saying we only need to know what teams between picks 9 &13 would be doing ......i was pointing out we needed to understand what teams all the way back to Essendon were doing

If you wrre right and we simply have a list and cross them off .......why in Ogilvy's interview did he say "we've looked at a 100 different scenarios on draft night" .......was that a throw away line?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The only "skeleton" players the club planned to select in that time were Davis & Lever. Talia just fell into their laps. Crouch & Smith aren't "skeleton" players. Lever's selection was due to a dire need.

Sorry the Midfield is the heart / engine room .....absolutely part of the skeleton

It brings up the famous Hawthorn v Richmond drafting strategy

Hawthorn went KPP and Richmond Mids ........you can argue, and clubs do which area to setup first when building teams

 

[Matman23]

I understand the process .....so?

I am not sure what point you're trying to make ......IIRC you were saying we only need to know what teams between picks 9 &13 would be doing ......i was pointing out we needed to understand what teams all the way back to Essendon were doing

If you wrre right and we simply have a list and cross them off .......why in Ogilvy's interview did he say "we've looked at a 100 different scenarios on draft night" .......was that a throw away line?

I don't think he was speaking specifically about this year. Just drafts in general. I also recall him saying it would be an easier process this year with only two early picks.

 

[Ozzie]

You don't have 3 KPD stoppers on the list ......Lever will never go into the midfield, that's just fanciful thinking .....pre-draft speculation by "so called experts"

Let me ask a question .....if Lever was considered a top 5 selection, do you think it's reasonable those clubs in the top 5 would have thought Lever to be a KPD? Quote by WW

My reply is this, how many times has a draftee ended up playing a position to his junior days? I see a lot of Matt Barlow in him, if you look at his body shape he is the modern midfielder. We all saw how good a player he was, but I wonder if he will ever fill out enough to stand those bigger types in the future. Hartigan has real speed so he is more than a stopper and I don't know enough about Collins's speed except to read where he took care of Weideman easily. You may be right, but I still think he will get used as a utility type player at the very least rather than as a pure defender.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We're not drafting another tall defender surely?

Dangerfield gone, Thompson on his last legs, doubts over B Crouch's durability.

Surely to goodness we're taking the two best midfielders we can.

 

[Vader]

I understand the process .....so?

I am not sure what point you're trying to make ......IIRC you were saying we only need to know what teams between picks 9 &13 would be doing ......i was pointing out we needed to understand what teams all the way back to Essendon were doing

If you wrre right and we simply have a list and cross them off .......why in Ogilvy's interview did he say "we've looked at a 100 different scenarios on draft night" .......was that a throw away line?

What Essendon do is largely irrelevant to us. Those players are no longer available to us and are effectively out of the equation by the time our draft selection comes around. Essendon's selections only have the power to reduce the number of permutations/options available to Adelaide, we have no influence over their selections.

The only factors we can influence are the players selected at #9 (Adelaide), #10 (Carlton), #11 (Richmond) and #12 (Adelaide). Assuming, that the GWS pick (currently #10 is used on an Academy player before pick #9).

There number of permutations rises above the standard 20-player order of merit list because of our ability to influence the Carlton & Richmond selections. Refer to my previous post discussing players X & Y.

It's also possible that the club wants to grab 1x mid and 1x KPP. I hope they don't go down this path - I want to see 2x mids - but I can't logically exclude the possibility. This then complicates the X & Y equation even further.

 

[Elite Crow]

tucker seems like a good lad and player but we can do better at 13 imo.

what time is the afl phantom on tonight?

He tweeted it will be up soon

 

[Elite Crow]

We're not drafting another tall defender surely?

Dangerfield gone, Thompson on his last legs, doubts over B Crouch's durability.

Surely to goodness we're taking the two best midfielders we can.

You would think so unless they don't rate the mids

 

[FAITH]

bonner like tucker is a good player would like him at the afc but is he worth 13?

 

[Elite Crow]

I know I can be annoying to some on here but **** me drunk......