I would take equal to Eddie as well.
His public gaffs are often my concern.
I agree far too many want change for change sake, with the quality of the candidate sadly a secondary consideration.
Bumped Eddie adamant he will lead club through a rebuild
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I would take equal to Eddie as well.
His public gaffs are often my concern.
I agree far too many want change for change sake, with the quality of the candidate sadly a secondary consideration.
AndrewShawble
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Don’t know if I’ve read one post where someone suggests let’s just have a change and whoever we get is whoever we get.
Actually the Star apparel appointment was a rort which ultimately helped seal his fate. Pert was just OK as a CEO, but not great.
You haven’t notice a sentiment of change for change sake?
Then we must be reading a different forum, because that’s exactly the naive change I have been strongly against.
I have no problem with a change to a President at least as good as Eddie.
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I can’t see a viable challenger in the short term. I think if we don’t see at least an improvement on 2020 next season that alternative will likely start making noise.
76woodenspooners
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Serious question (to you or anybody else) ...
... what criteria would you apply to determine if a candidate is better / worse / equal to Ed?
AndrewShawble
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The sentiment is that he’s had a good run and that people are ready for change, provided that the change is a step forward.
AndrewShawble
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I don’t think many people on this forum would be able to determine that at face value.
I do think the club is though, and do think if they went into it searching for the next evolution that they would be able to find it.
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No doubt Ed loves the club and helped turn things around when he took over.
But he has been around for a very long period of time and is far from independent, as a Chairman or Club President should be.
His past 5 or so years have been a very poor period for him in terms of what he has responsibility for (and often for what he doesn't have responsibility for but has got involved with).
Amongst them
- Adam Goodes
- spats with Colin Carter and Andrew Pridham
- Dayne Beams return
- disastrous hiring of Gubby Allan without board consent ( which resulted in - Wells and Mayne deals which were signed, loss of Neil Balme - who presided over success at Geelong prior and Richmond since and was a good friend of the senior coach who had personally pursued him for the role, sexual assault case)
- diversification of the club into netball
- and a club review which eventually told him to temper his ways and politely pull his head in (and subsequently avoided hiring Lethlean and sacking Buckley which was Ed's inclination at the time)
He did help extricate ourselves out of the pubs business, but he had also presided over the decision to get into that business too.
By contrast, does anyone think Colin Carter or Peggy O'Neal would have been involved in the Dayne Beams repatriation or even the hiring of Gubby Allan without consulting his board? There is zero chance of this. They also aren't commenting on everything vaguely related to the club - it is the senior coach (Hardwick/Scott) and CEO (Gale/Cook) who occupies that role at those clubs. Even Jeff Kennett has retired from the Hawthorn board and been re-elected in the meantime, recognising the respect of process and a need for fresh ideas.
Ed's approach to things, while well-meaning, diminishes the ability for well qualified and diligent operators to do their job properly and probably offers unnecessary distractions in the pursuit of his agendas.
I also question whether his presence has had a detrimental impact on Collingwood's cultural diversity - and that extends simply beyond player skin colour.
And wealth and popularity does not always correlate with competency - Donald Trump being a case in point.
In an environment where size itself does not determine success - given salary caps and soft caps, it does require good processes and planning, good people and an ounce of luck to deliver a period of sustained success and premiership glory.
We're all thankful for what Ed has done for the club over 22 years, but I can't see how it would be harmful to replace Ed and I can see why it would be detrimental for his retention.
People mention Craig Kelly as a replacement. Perhaps, but I fear that his son's place on this list would make that challenging. It didn't work well for the Silvagni's at Carlton. I also think that as a 'deal doing' player manager that it may be more of the same.
I'd like Peter Murphy, if he was interested, to be handed the reins. He knows the club, has served it well, is level headed and has had success in business.
But I am sure that there are many other candidates who would be suitable for a club with the popularity of Collingwood. But it is difficult to remove someone who is as popular as Ed while he wishes to remain in the role. I think it would most likely have to be someone who moves in alongside him with a dedicated handover in mind in order for it to occur.
But he has been around for a very long period of time and is far from independent, as a Chairman or Club President should be.
His past 5 or so years have been a very poor period for him in terms of what he has responsibility for (and often for what he doesn't have responsibility for but has got involved with).
Amongst them
- Adam Goodes
- spats with Colin Carter and Andrew Pridham
- Dayne Beams return
- disastrous hiring of Gubby Allan without board consent ( which resulted in - Wells and Mayne deals which were signed, loss of Neil Balme - who presided over success at Geelong prior and Richmond since and was a good friend of the senior coach who had personally pursued him for the role, sexual assault case)
- diversification of the club into netball
- and a club review which eventually told him to temper his ways and politely pull his head in (and subsequently avoided hiring Lethlean and sacking Buckley which was Ed's inclination at the time)
He did help extricate ourselves out of the pubs business, but he had also presided over the decision to get into that business too.
By contrast, does anyone think Colin Carter or Peggy O'Neal would have been involved in the Dayne Beams repatriation or even the hiring of Gubby Allan without consulting his board? There is zero chance of this. They also aren't commenting on everything vaguely related to the club - it is the senior coach (Hardwick/Scott) and CEO (Gale/Cook) who occupies that role at those clubs. Even Jeff Kennett has retired from the Hawthorn board and been re-elected in the meantime, recognising the respect of process and a need for fresh ideas.
Ed's approach to things, while well-meaning, diminishes the ability for well qualified and diligent operators to do their job properly and probably offers unnecessary distractions in the pursuit of his agendas.
I also question whether his presence has had a detrimental impact on Collingwood's cultural diversity - and that extends simply beyond player skin colour.
And wealth and popularity does not always correlate with competency - Donald Trump being a case in point.
In an environment where size itself does not determine success - given salary caps and soft caps, it does require good processes and planning, good people and an ounce of luck to deliver a period of sustained success and premiership glory.
We're all thankful for what Ed has done for the club over 22 years, but I can't see how it would be harmful to replace Ed and I can see why it would be detrimental for his retention.
People mention Craig Kelly as a replacement. Perhaps, but I fear that his son's place on this list would make that challenging. It didn't work well for the Silvagni's at Carlton. I also think that as a 'deal doing' player manager that it may be more of the same.
I'd like Peter Murphy, if he was interested, to be handed the reins. He knows the club, has served it well, is level headed and has had success in business.
But I am sure that there are many other candidates who would be suitable for a club with the popularity of Collingwood. But it is difficult to remove someone who is as popular as Ed while he wishes to remain in the role. I think it would most likely have to be someone who moves in alongside him with a dedicated handover in mind in order for it to occur.
Commercial acumen and demonstrated leadership in “C” level management within a large organization.
Passion for the club, and good knowledge of the game.
Intelligent, Personable and a good public spokesperson.
I would exclude any media personalities - we don’t need a President constantly drawn into debates on issues by the public or media colleagues.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Respectfully disagree. The board and the senior management are different things and require different skillsets.
Agree ... but any prospective candidate would likely come with their own “I’ve been following Collingwood since” story and so have that by default.
Disagree. How would you even measure or determine that? And even if you could, how would that be an asset?
That’s a good example of the power of incumbency. Most other clubs happily have a President / Chairman who is anonymous and not in the public eye at all. I live in Sydney and wouldn’t have seen Andrew Pridham make a Swans related comment more than a few times.
WCE do alright for themselves and I couldn’t even tell you who their President / Chairman is.
Are we looking for a better President, or a better Ed?
If it’s the latter, then no candidate will ever get up in a vote, and for better or for worse, we’ll be stuck with Ed until he decides himself he doesn’t want to do it anymore (I’m not holding my breath) or he’s carried out the joint in a casket.
Fair enough.
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76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Well, unless Ed implements a succession plan and then retires of his own free will, then it will be up to those of us who are voting members to determine that.
Here’s my thinking.
C level Manager would have all the experience to deal with inevitable breadth of organizational issues that will be brought to the board.
How does a President understand Football related issues Coaches concerns, List Management etc and the plethora of other game related issues that are pushed for discussion at board level, without an understanding of the game?
How does a President lead a board if he doesn’t have the capacity to “fill in the gaps” for other boards members less familiar with the game.
We are taking about a Presodent not a board member.
Don’t we need a President who can sift wheat from charff, in respect of football issues affecting the club?
We are talking about Coll, not Swans, so the requirement to be a polished media performer, will be important given the dramatically different profile of each club and the media attention they draw.
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You're correct on this one Ingy, in fact there was a collective opposition board assembled from the general public such was the disdain of consistent failure from the tiga faithful. It spoke volumes and was maybe the rocket up the ass that joint needed.
I wouldn't be surprised if next year we fail yet again some Pie faithful may do the same, if that happens hopefully the club may actually get the message that the fan base is not happy and go into action and put a plan in place to dominate like the tigas have.
As for buying flags, I'd argue that we've won most if not all of ours fair and square, particularly the machine. That team was all about self sacrifice for the common goal.
Wish this current team had the same attitude, we'd be the tigas of the competition not that other mob down the road.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
As somebody who has successful C-Level management experience, I’d respectfully disagree
You put together a high level strategy, you appoint executives in key positions, and you back them in and hold them to account.
The board should never be involved in operational decisions. Their role is to ensure good governance (ie: due process is followed, and that high level decisions are in keeping with high level strategic direction)
A football board director fills that purpose (ie:Paul Licuria on the current board). No different to board members who are not fluent in accounting, or marketing, or operations, or compliance.
No. That’s the job of the Football Manager (Geoff Walsh)
I assure you that both clubs have equally high media profiles in their respective markets.
You're not reading the room spinny.
No one in their right mind would want change for the sake of change, they want change because they know if things don't change things won't change.
If you read the room i:e this board you'll know the fan base is so desperate and bereft of success they want constructive change, not change for the sake of no change i:e no success.
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People get confused and become attached to personnel - forgetting that allegiance should lie with the club, no one individual/s.
Its not a monopoly, the club will be around long after Ed, Buckley etc. are finished - all (most) members want is constant improvement, with tangible structures & plans that ideally pave a way towards success both on-field & off.
We might be rational - but the “Eddie” threads are full of irrational people just wanting change.
No qualifications as to the type of change, but just change,
That’s what I’m alluding to.
I'd say they're very few in number, if any.
76woodenspooners
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We always have those types who want to sack everybody from the President to the boot studder to avenge a bad loss.
jackcass
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I’m not too fussed about where any Ed replacement comes from, as long as they are a unifying influence, have vision about where we need to get to, the wisdom to distill the plethora of options, map how we’ll get there, and take everyone on the journey. The board should have the collective commercial acumen.
jackcass
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Gee, that’s almost a rational post from you. There is hope!
If it makes you feel better, go back and look at the 2012 list. We were dropping off a cliff, so many potential players never became the players we thought they would be in 2010, and many of them failed at new club's too. Hawthorn well and truly had our measure and if anything, had Malthouse stayed we may have a couple more losing GFs to deal with.
Wellingham, Dawes, Reid, Brown, Thomas- Didak barely played again and Ball did his knee.
I actually think our current team has more talent than that squad.
