News EFC asks AFL and ASADA for probe into own training regime

[Whispering_Jack]

Ok.

So.....

The feeling I get is that, like most clubs, Essendon flies as close to the letter of the law as they can.

It also appears that the three men presented to the media genuinely believed that nothing untoward was happening. However by the look of all three I'd say they are now extremely concerned that it may not be the case.

Reports in the Herald-Sun today indicate that Essendon 'believed' what was being given was legal; but that what was ACTUALLY given may not have been.

At the very least, the club is guilty of monumental stupidity. Obviously I hope that is the only thing they are guilty of.

I remarked sometime ago that a repeat of deliberate salary cap cheating would be the only thing I could see occuring that would cause me to abandon my membership, financial donations and support of the club in general. I like winning - but not by cheating.

If the club is proven to have deliberately cheated by administering PEDs (and this is the worst posible result obviously); I don't believe I could continue to call myself an Essendon supporter.

Your post is a bit contradictory to be honest, you say "It also appears that the three men presented to the media genuinely believed that nothing untoward was happening" but if that is the case, that the top echelon decision makers of the club didn't know what was happening, surely saying this line "If the club is proven to have deliberately cheated by administering PEDs (and this is the worst posible result obviously); I don't believe I could continue to call myself an Essendon supporter" wouldnt happen?

 

[BrunoV]

We ought to be punished for operating the sort of amateur hour that is allowing the existence of a sport science and condition program that is a law unto itself.

I do feel sorry for the players because any way you look at it they've been put in a position by the club and Dank & Co that they should never have been in (probably for academic and inconsequential gains). But I start to feel less sorry because I can't believe that this is the first that Hird knows about it (it says a lot about Hird as far as I'm concerned). What are the odds that 50 guys were confronted with this and not one of them went to the club doctor or a coach who presumably would have been more than entitled to blow the whistle?

I can't help but think of all the posts I read about what a big, strong club Essendon is and how shit North Melbourne (for example) is. Well guys, good clubs don't operate like this. Short of the attempted cover up of a scheme that the whole club has been knowingly involved in (which would destroy the club anyway) we are an incompetent shambles more akin to some third generation idiot squandering the wealth earned by previous generations. Our current position is so far removed from the acts that earned our status that we really have no right to associate with the powerful clubs (both on and off field).

 

[beev]

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
Wrong info being pushed. Hird Thompson medicos etc knew waivers were signed .... they were not a secret at the club

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
point is players have faith in their sports science people. Maxwell had faith in the staff at coll

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
Will say again, all clubs push the boundaries. That's what sports science blokes do. They try to find the next magic solution ...

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
players take so many supplements that it is second nature to do so. They don't think the club people would spike their own players..

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
ESS fear is that could have happened. Repeat could have...

 

[Jade]

Your post is a bit contradictory to be honest, you say "It also appears that the three men presented to the media genuinely believed that nothing untoward was happening" but if that is the case, that the top echelon decision makers of the club didn't know what was happening, surely saying this line "If the club is proven to have deliberately cheated by administering PEDs (and this is the worst posible result obviously); I don't believe I could continue to call myself an Essendon supporter" wouldnt happen?

I certainly hope it doesn't happen.

But if it does, it's completely disgusting.

 

[Thurlo]

Contador is different because of Spain, yes, but it's never been WADA punishing teams. When a team has been thrown off the cycling tours because of the drug charges, it's been the UCI rather than WADA; these teams aren't being destroyed by WADA.

That said, there's never been a case like this in world sports.

UCI is rotten to the core.

There has been cases like this in world sports before, they have just been covered up by the National Federations.... WADA will most likely refer it back to ASADA and only intervene if they think that ASADA's actions are not sufficient.

 

[LeverPuller]

UCI is rotten to the core.

There has been cases like this in world sports before, they have just been covered up by the National Federations.... WADA will most likely refer it back to ASADA and only intervene if they think that ASADA's actions are not sufficient.

Of course.

It's just something that I don't know. We're on the edge of the cliff here; who knows how ASADA will react to this.

 

[Wosh]

We ought to be punished for operating the sort of amateur hour that is allowing the existence of a sport science and condition program that is a law unto itself.

I do feel sorry for the players because any way you look at it they've been put in a position by the club and Dank & Co that they should never have been in (probably for academic and inconsequential gains). But I start to feel less sorry because I can't believe that this is the first that Hird knows about it (it says a lot about Hird as far as I'm concerned). What are the odds that 50 guys were confronted with this and not one of them went to the club doctor or a coach who presumably would have been more than entitled to blow the whistle?

I can't help but think of all the posts I read about what a big, strong club Essendon is and how shit North Melbourne (for example) is. Well guys, good clubs don't operate like this. Short of the attempted cover up of a scheme that the whole club has been knowingly involved in (which would destroy the club anyway) we are an incompetent shambles more akin to some third generation idiot squandering the wealth earned by previous generations. Our current position is so far removed from the acts that earned our status that we really have no right to associate with the powerful clubs (both on and off field).

Honestly and humility, taking responsibilty..well done.
When the Eagles had their major problems, the cocky, smartmouthed, excuse making blustering of our own supporters made me sick. If this is what's going on, then you take your medicine, be grateful that it has come out and is going to be addressed, that the appropriate heads roll..quickly..and the club can start rebuilding its respect and reputation. I always felt it was better to have my club clean and on the bottom than dirty and at the top.
I mean it's early days yet and who knows where this is going to go, but I like your attitude of not fobbing it off and deflecting..'taking it as a man' so to speak.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Don't worry, we'll end up winning the flag while everyone cries foul.

Meanwhile, Judd retires with one finals win, Buddy leaves for Freo, Dane Swan gets caught partying with Cousins while police raid Richmond's 20 man gay orgy.

Just a correction. Judd captained a premiership side, played in many finals-winning side, just not ours.

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[b0ydman]

I'm seriously worried. Like a few have already said, even if we somehow get out of this with just a slap on the wrist, our brand will be tarnished.

When reading articles like this one -> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ty-essendon-club/story-e6frf9jf-1226571185543

I think to myself why would the EFC hire someone like this in the first place?!

Why him?
Because they couldn't get the guy who eventually went to port, amongst others.
Why ? Because Every other club was AHEAD of them in their programs.

 

[Jimthegreat]

There'd be some serious questions on ASADA if they failed to nab 30 odd people though, it's this reason alone that gives me faith.

Marion Jones never tested positive.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
point is players have faith in their sports science people. Maxwell had faith in the staff at coll

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
Will say again, all clubs push the boundaries. That's what sports science blokes do. They try to find the next magic solution ...

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
players take so many supplements that it is second nature to do so. They don't think the club people would spike their own players..

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
ESS fear is that could have happened. Repeat could have...

Well it could have happened (unwittingly) at other clubs. After ASADA go through our club they may well recommend to investigate others.

 

[DapperDon]

Marion Jones never tested positive.

True, but not getting a single positive in a suggested 30 player involvement doesn't make them look competent to me.

 

[carnthedons]

I've heard rumours about one of our ruckmen receiving injections for years

 

[Malifice]

It's the substance that is banned, not the way it's delivered.

Not true.

According to the AFL prohibited substance list of 2010 the following methods are banned:

Intravenous infusions are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/2010_Anti-Doping_Code_1.pdf

From the WADA website:

Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 ml per 6 hour period (are prohibited) except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.

http://list.wada-ama.org/prohibited-all-times/prohibited-methods/

I think the latter WADA source is the relevant one here (you can inject crap, as long as its not prohibited, and you dont inject more than 50ml per 6 hours).

The AFL code is supposed to reflect the WADA code, and the above WADA code is up to date as at 2013.

 

[Jab]

Thanks for the links, Malifice

 

[Jobe3votes]

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
AFL says confidentiality was not breached on any occasion... only club doctor knew

So there you go, only the sport scientist guru knew what the heck was going on.

 

[Jimthegreat]

You can't be found guilty of anything if there is no evidence to find you guilty. It is unlikely they will find the evidence if the treatment has stopped some time ago, assuming 3AW is right and the issue is hormone treatment.

Yes you can. We all know you don't have to test positive to be found guilty. Recent events have shown that.

 

[BigAl3001]

he needs to talk to Brock McLean....

 

[Malifice]

Best case scenario here, Essendon were only injecting less than 50ml's per 6 hours of a non performance enhancing/ prohibited substance (this including the players own blood reintroduced into the players muscle which is prohibited) into its players.

On that topic, you cant re-inject a players own re oxygenated blood back into that player muscle or vascular system. You can inject that blood into ligaments, but then it can only be a max of 50ml per 6 hours.

By God that is a thin line to skirt.

They really should have gotten an ASADA waiver here if they were worried.

 

[Oh we're from..]

Mark Robinson ‏@Robbo_heraldsun
AFL says confidentiality was not breached on any occasion... only club doctor knew

So there you go, only the sport scientist guru knew what the heck was going on.

That is in regards to today's other news about illicit drugs.

 

[Malifice]

Thanks for the links, Malifice

No worries mate.

The AFL code is stricter, but I'm assuming it is based on the 2010 WADA code for its regulations. Those regs appear to have been changed a bit since then, and I assume the 2013 WADA regs now take precedence (they allow minor injections of up to 50ml per 6 hours).

It also looks like ASADA (who are a Federal govt agency) conduct the investigation (with AFL assistance) and then charge players from there.

If found guilty of engaging or use of a banned method, or a banned substance they face a 2 year ban. This can be reduced to 1 year with the Nuremberg/ Warne defense (the player legitimately didn't know or it was administered by someone else without the players knowledge).

Technically it is then up the AFL to enforce the ban, but the AFL have contracted with ASADA to do so 'in good faith' (and get federal funding accordingly).

Also the ASADA and AFL regs expressly allow a club official (and club) to be punished for involvement, also notwithstanding the club or officials actual knowledge.

Depending on what was taken, how it was taken, how often it was taken, and by how many players (and of course what the ASADA can prove) this could get real ugly.

 

[Kong]

They aren't beating a woman here. They're just doing what every other AFL player has done for the last 25 years to get through a game, sticking somesh*t into themselves and being team players

St Kilda misunderstood this concept.

 

[Jab]

Nice to read that Monfries declined to make any comment to the media. I dont have a problem if he tells all to the appropriate authorities, and so he should, but it's nice to see that he didnt take the opportunity to have a shot at anyone at his old club.

Some good morals from one of the clubs ex whipping boy's

 

[Jab]

Some good insight again, thanks Malifice. Who needs a paywall

 

[Beerfish]

And to that I say, **** them. The AFL website crashed last night from all the minnow supporting arsehats who want us to fail. Use the hate, the hate spawned of jealousy, suck up everything they throw at you and then when we win our 17th flag shove every ******* bit of it back in their faces.

We're the ******* Essendon Football Club and we will come out of anything with our heads held high.

Clubs like St Kilda or North dream of this sort of attention.

Quoted for truth.