News EFC asks AFL and ASADA for probe into own training regime

[Malifice]

Yes you can. We all know you don't have to test positive to be found guilty. Recent events have shown that.

If you head here:

http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/8_rule_violations.html

It tells you what the 8 ASADA rules are.

Only one of those rules pertains to 'testing positive'. The rest relate to attempting to engage in prohibited conduct, concealing results, refusing a test, official/ club involvement and so forth.

Really useful site.

There are further and additional breaches and penalties (specific to the AFL) that can be found on the AFL anti doping code (club sanctions including fines of up to 200 penalty units and loss of draft picks).

I could only find the 2010 AFL code online, and im not sure if its been updated since then.

 

[rines]

Club is confident that ramifications won't include us being excluded from AFL competition...

I don't know what the hell that means.. but it doesn't sound great tbh. I think the hardest part is going to be the wait for 3-6 months while they sort all this out.

When does "right on the edge" become "over the edge" and can they prove it?

Oh, and WADA won't give a stuff about anything like revenue or club history.. if 40 players took it, then 40 players will be banned for 2 years, possibly 1 if they really covered their tracks,... however like Storm showed.. you can survive a year in the wilderness if your supporters stay strong, your program stays strong and your players stick with you.

Why would we do this as a club? I just don't get it.. of all the stuff that flies around.. I thought EFC would be above this type of stuff.. not even 'close' to the border....!!!!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

True, but not getting a single positive in a suggested 30 player involvement doesn't make them look competent to me.

Talk on the radio this morning was that HGH only shows up for 20mins after administered. No chance of testing positive.

Either way no proof is required as Essendon are admitting to using these supplements that they believe are borderline legal, the only question is which side of the borderline they sit.

 

[Childish Gambino]

Talk on the radio this morning was that HGH only shows up for 20mins after administered. No chance of testing positive.

Either way no proof is required as Essendon are admitting to using these supplements that they believe are borderline legal, the only question is which side of the borderline they sit.

So which supplements have Essendon admitted to using again? Please inform me.

 

[Malifice]

Some good insight again, thanks Malifice. Who needs a paywall

Now we know the relevant rules at least.

Now all we need is some facts (what was taken, when, by whom, how much etc) so we can turn this speculation into slightly more educated guesses at the likely outcome.

Currently its something between nothing, and something bigger than we've ever seen before, and potentially catastrophic.

The real worry for me is that the blokes closest to the action that we have actually heard from looked utterly grim about the whole thing. Hird and everyones body language to me just had 'we're ****ed' written all over it.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

So which supplements have Essendon admitted to using again? Please inform me.

You know as well as I do they didn't name the supplements. But clearly they intend to cooperate with the investigation.

 

[Donakebab]

Marion Jones never tested positive.

According to Gerard Healy many people knew about what was going on, including the AFL. If they can't get a positive test when they know what they should be looking for the they obviously aren't even trying.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

dem damn roids

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

My argument would be that the supplements were clearly not performance enhancing as we incurred so many soft tissue injuries.

 

[Doss]

They did look grim, no doubt Malifice. But I'm not sure if that is the smoking gun, so to speak.

Regardless of innocence or guilt of the EFC, the very fact they were there declaring they've asked for a drug-related investigation would be more than enough to make them a little grim.

Simply because, whether they've flouted the rules or not, it is an absolute PR disaster for the club. The worst one in Essendon's history, I'd suggest.

 

[Malifice]

Club is confident that ramifications won't include us being excluded from AFL competition.

ASADA and the AFL dont have that power. Technically the AFL could deregister you, but that wont happen.

You could only be excluded from the comp 'defacto' if it turned out that your Sports science team administered banned or prohibited substances to enough of your side (and thus each of those players got a mandatory 1-2 year ban) and as a consequence you would thus be practically unable to field a side of 22+5 for a year or two.

The collective financial consequences if that would occur would be catastrophic though.

Hopefully the stuff injected was in small doses, and the stuff itself was allowed by the code. Failing that, and a banned substance or method was employed, you have to hope that it was only administered to (or can only be proven to have been administered to) a small section of the list (to enable enough non suspended players to continue to compete).

 

[Phone]

Does anyone know more about this? I never realized the AFL had it in for Robinson. Not that it is really relevant to this (I don't think they AFL is framing it's least favourite sports science guru), but what business is it of theirs who clubs employ?

It's less to do with the man himself and just simply that a club was able to spend 1 million dollars over 3 years on a sport scientist. they're not that happy that some clubs are able to hand out the average AFL contract to football department staff, and particularly sport scientists, who it's fair to say the afl have been annoyed about for a few reasons for awhile now

 

[daz17]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ays-day-of-drama/story-e6frf9jf-1226570861343

Media and fans were denied entry to the venue, which is usually open to the public.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ays-day-of-drama/story-e6frf9jf-1226570861343

You know they are lying now...

 

[Doss]

Usually open to the public? It isn't even open to the ******* public yet!

A fence? It's still a ******* construction site, for pete's sake.

Typical Herald Scum.

 

[DapperDon]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ays-day-of-drama/story-e6frf9jf-1226570861343



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ays-day-of-drama/story-e6frf9jf-1226570861343

You know they are lying now...

Lol, journo has got to be taking the piss on that one.

 

[Argy]

ASADA and the AFL dont have that power. Technically the AFL could deregister you, but that wont happen.

You could only be excluded from the comp 'defacto' if it turned out that your Sports science team administered banned or prohibited substances to enough of your side (and thus each of those players got a mandatory 1-2 year ban) and as a consequence you would thus be practically unable to field a side of 22+5 for a year or two.

The collective financial consequences if that would occur would be catastrophic though.

Hopefully the stuff injected was in small doses, and the stuff itself was allowed by the code. Failing that, and a banned substance or method was employed, you have to hope that it was only administered to (or can only be proven to have been administered to) a small section of the list (to enable enough non suspended players to continue to compete).

This thread shouldn't be allowed on a total fire ban day - too much heat!

My thoughts are that there won't be as much damage to EFC as most people think - the worst is probably already happening (bad press, bruised egos and a distraction for three to six months). I can't imagine that the coaching staff and player group would get involved in this stuff knowingly.

But if it is more serious then another dimension arises... The affect it might have on the players if they're banned for a year or two. I suspect they could sue the club for loss of income, damages, that sort of thing.

 

[Doss]

Sad thing is, that piece of shit is our leading daily newspaper in terms of readership.

Reflects the stupidity and inattentiveness of the average John and Jane Doe.

 

[Tas]

Yes you can. We all know you don't have to test positive to be found guilty. Recent events have shown that.

Well, that is the assumption nobody has evidence of you taking an illicit substance or nobody confessing to taking an illicit substance. If Essendon say they don't know what they took but believe they didn't break any rules and nobody has evidence to the contrary then WADA needs evidence to apply a ban.

Most people who use illicit drugs are not caught because of the lack of evidence, only a fraction are caught. The heavy penalty is meant to be a deterrent because it is so difficult to catch people who break the rules.

 

[Pweter]

Well, that is the assumption nobody has evidence of you taking an illicit substance or nobody confessing to taking an illicit substance. If Essendon say they don't know what they took but believe they didn't break any rules and nobody has evidence to the contrary then WADA needs evidence to apply a ban.

Most people who use illicit drugs are not caught because of the lack of evidence, only a fraction are caught. The heavy penalty is meant to be a deterrent because it is so difficult to catch people who break the rules.

Yet it's reported the club received bills surrounding this. Would be interesting to know what the bills were for. Is it for the product, for the medical professional injecting it etc. Surely a medical professional would need to document what they inject and the dose as due care to cover their ass if something goes pear shaped.

 

[The_Reaper]

Well, that is the assumption nobody has evidence of you taking an illicit substance or nobody confessing to taking an illicit substance. If Essendon say they don't know what they took but believe they didn't break any rules and nobody has evidence to the contrary then WADA needs evidence to apply a ban.

Most people who use illicit drugs are not caught because of the lack of evidence, only a fraction are caught. The heavy penalty is meant to be a deterrent because it is so difficult to catch people who break the rules.

Wouldn't the nurse have some knowledge of what she was injecting?

I'd be amazed given how the club has handled it so far if they were able to hide any evidence (assuming any evidence exists).

 

[Lord Nicholson]

We ought to be punished for operating the sort of amateur hour that is allowing the existence of a sport science and condition program that is a law unto itself.

I do feel sorry for the players because any way you look at it they've been put in a position by the club and Dank & Co that they should never have been in (probably for academic and inconsequential gains). But I start to feel less sorry because I can't believe that this is the first that Hird knows about it (it says a lot about Hird as far as I'm concerned). What are the odds that 50 guys were confronted with this and not one of them went to the club doctor or a coach who presumably would have been more than entitled to blow the whistle?

I can't help but think of all the posts I read about what a big, strong club Essendon is and how shit North Melbourne (for example) is. Well guys, good clubs don't operate like this. Short of the attempted cover up of a scheme that the whole club has been knowingly involved in (which would destroy the club anyway) we are an incompetent shambles more akin to some third generation idiot squandering the wealth earned by previous generations. Our current position is so far removed from the acts that earned our status that we really have no right to associate with the powerful clubs (both on and off field).

This. A thousand times this. No matter what the outcome of this, it has tarnished this administration almost to a point of no return. If they did know, that's bad. If they didn't know, that's even worse.

There is nothing about this that I can find pride in, even in a defiant "Come at us, let us drink your tears of rage" way. It is a disgrace unbecoming the Essendon Football Club. That being said, if all that is left at the end is a bunch of jumpers and a theme song, I will still back it to the hilt. I've never had to take more solace in the fact that a club is bigger than the people who govern it.

 

[Phone]

ESSENDON PEOPLE

 

[Tas]

Wouldn't the nurse have some knowledge of what she was injecting?

I'd be amazed given how the club has handled it so far if they were able to hide any evidence (assuming any evidence exists).

In a hospital they would, all hospital medicine is clearly labelled. In private the nurse would likely only be hired solely to safely administer the treatment. I doubt anything that is illicit is going to have the skull and crossbones on it or advertise it.

Transfusions and injections alone is not evidence of illict drug use, WADA approves of Intravenous infusions and/or injections of non-illicit substances up to a certain point, or quantity over a period of time.

It is pretty easy to guess at what kind of wrong doing has occurred but people are innocent until proven guilty in this country. We have to be mindful of that and not allow circumstantial evidence to lead to a trial by media.

 

[LeverPuller]

Club is confident that ramifications won't include us being excluded from AFL competition...

I don't know what the hell that means.. but it doesn't sound great tbh. I think the hardest part is going to be the wait for 3-6 months while they sort all this out.

What it means is that the club will still get to play. The problem is who is in red and black...is it the current Essendon list, or a bunch of VFL players?

I think that's good at least. Losing a season would be the AFL's call, and they're beholden to both the fixture at this point (remember, 17-team fixture was 24 rounds, not 23) and the TV rights deal requiring nine games per week. Healy was speaking of Essendon being barred from the competition, after all.

 

[Doss]

Tas- I think we're already heading down the trial by media route, in fact we're a long way down that path.