Premier Lg EPL Matchday 34, 35 & 36 - On Optus Sport

[Bradesmaen]

I'm not in the full Ange won't work camp, but by now he should have tweaked a few things. I get and respect the "let's see who can play our way" mantra. But surely it doesn't take 35 games to realise Hojberg can't handle being pressed, Emerson can't play as an inverted RB or LB, Son isn't a 9, and someone helping the weak GK at corners might be a good idea!

Don't get me wrong, I hope he succeeds but I don't have time for people who won't acknowledge their faults

 

[Topkent]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said. But your refusal to accept that he had it easy to implement an extreme tactical setup in Scotland is crazy. Celtic and Rangers are in a league where they are City and their biggest threats are like Plymouth and Wycombe Wanderers. It worked fantastically for him. But it was easy to do because of how much stronger they are. That can't work in the PL

You're conveniently ignoring Yokohama and Brisbane Roar who he also led to league titles, one in a salary capped league. His coaching stint with Australia with the talent he had at hand was also the best we've ever had as well. It took Jurgen Klopp 6 years to win a league title and he's arguably the best manager in the world.
Klopp, Arteta both coached crap teams for multiple years. I don't understand what you realistically thought Ange would do this year.

 

[jd2010]

You're conveniently ignoring Yokohama and Brisbane Roar who he also led to league titles, one in a salary capped league. His coaching stint with Australia with the talent he had at hand was also the best we've ever had as well. It took Jurgen Klopp 6 years to win a league title and he's arguably the best manager in the world.
Klopp, Arteta both coached crap teams for multiple years. I don't understand what you realistically thought Ange would do this year.

Player recruitment was massive with his Roar success. Sure they played beautiful football, but if they hadn't identified and signed Broich, this whole thing never gets off the ground. And his style was so advanced and great that it blew the league still its relevant infancy away. That's not discounting it. It's just that he can't copy and paste previous success from an infant league, a non physical league and a duopoly into the PL

 

[Bradesmaen]

 

[Frank Bunn]

Celtic are that far above the rest of the SPFL other than Rangers that judging defence in that league is not wise. For comparison Celtic are 7 goals less with 3 games to play this year.

Before Ange, Celtic lost the title by 25 points to Rangers. He turned it round into two comfortable Premierships.

Are you now going back to his J-League and A-League titles that Angeball = conceding?

 

[jd2010]

Don't get me wrong, I hope he succeeds but I don't have time for people who won't acknowledge their faults

It smells a bit like a point to prove that we need more of an overhaul to the board. Well that's what I'm hoping it is rather than lunacy from Ange

 

[jd2010]

Before Ange, Celtic lost the title by 25 points to Rangers. He turned it round into two comfortable Premierships.

Are you now going back to his J-League and A-League titles that Angeball = conceding?

That far back and they still managed 15 clean sheets!

 

[Topkent]

Player recruitment was massive with his Roar success. Sure they played beautiful football, but if they hadn't identified and signed Broich, this whole thing never gets off the ground. And his style was so advanced and great that it blew the league still its relevant infancy away. That's not discounting it. It's just that he can't copy and paste previous success from an infant league, a non physical league and a duopoly into the PL

Mate again that's such a poor argument. Klopps success isn't worth anything because if they hadn't got Allison Van Dijk and Salah he'd be nothing.
You don't know that he can't do it. Worked pretty well at the start of the season and sure coaches have set up deep against him because his style worked so they've given up trying to run the game against him. Now he needs better players who can unlock sitting defences and defend better on the counter. Which shock, will involve better players.

 

[jd2010]

Mate again that's such a poor argument. Klopps success isn't worth anything because if they hadn't got Allison Van Dijk and Salah he'd be nothing.

I'm not talking about other managers here

I'm talking about Ange being set in his ways. You're saying it worked in Brisbane, it worked in Japan, it defensively was good enough in Scotland. I'm countering that with individual points raising the question marks that he rightly has around him at 58 in his one and only shot at the big time. I can applaud what he's done and still question if he can replicate it at higher levels.

Australia - not a great league when he took over Brisbane and revolutionised the game in the country. TICK.
Can he do it overseas / in Europe?

Japan - took over a mid table team and revolutionary again with beautiful football. TICK.
Can he do it in a more physical league / in europe?

Scotland - finally back in Europe, took over the fallen giant in a 2 horse race and won back to back titles and cups etc. TICK.
Can he do it in a more competitive league?

England - can imprint his attacking style on a team in quick time. TICK.
Can he balance attack with defence in a competitive league?
Can he adapt at all when managers get on top of him and stifle his side?

They're still questions that are unanswered, and will only get answered in time with us next season. He's proven going up the football chain slowly from Australia to Scotland via Japan that he can answer critics. But the jump from the 12-14th best league in the world to the biggest, is to date his biggest leap yet.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Before Ange, Celtic lost the title by 25 points to Rangers. He turned it round into two comfortable Premierships.

Are you now going back to his J-League and A-League titles that Angeball = conceding?

He turned around a team in a 1 of 2 league. Miracles, get the water we might get some wine.

 

[Topkent]

I'm not talking about other managers here

I'm talking about Ange being set in his ways. You're saying it worked in Brisbane, it worked in Japan, it defensively was good enough in Scotland. I'm countering that with individual points raising the question marks that he rightly has around him at 58 in his one and only shot at the big time. I can applaud what he's done and still question if he can replicate it at higher levels.

Australia - not a great league when he took over Brisbane and revolutionised the game in the country. TICK.
Can he do it overseas / in Europe?

Japan - took over a mid table team and revolutionary again with beautiful football. TICK.
Can he do it in a more physical league / in europe?

Scotland - finally back in Europe, took over the fallen giant in a 2 horse race and won back to back titles and cups etc. TICK.
Can he do it in a more competitive league?

England - can imprint his attacking style on a team in quick time. TICK.
Can he balance attack with defence in a competitive league?
Can he adapt at all when managers get on top of him and stifle his side?

They're still questions that are unanswered, and will only get answered in time with us next season. He's proven going up the football chain slowly from Australia to Scotland via Japan that he can answer critics. But the jump from the 12-14th best league in the world to the biggest, is to date his biggest leap yet.

Right so we can probably leave it there then because I've never said he's guaranteed to be a success. But it's worked everywhere else he's been and youd be stupid to think he's gonna abandon his methods after a handful of bad results. If he tries and fails to turn spurs into a powerful attacking team then so be it. If you think this version of the team is the best version he can coach then so be it. I really dont think it is.

Klopp took years to alter his all out gegen press to suit the premier league, he also got given 3 superstar world class players in Alisson Van Dijk and Salah. Talk to me when Ange doesn't have the clear weakest squad in the top 7
Despite their s**t form Chelsea would have more players in a best 11 than Spurs would.

 

[Frank Bunn]

He turned around a team in a 1 of 2 league. Miracles, get the water we might get some wine.

29 points turnaround for Celtic in one season.

In one season under Ange, Yokohama went from 12th with 41 points to Champions with 70 points.

Brisbane went from 9th with 30 points to Champions with 65 points.

 

[Topkent]

29 points turnaround for Celtic in one season.

In one season under Ange, Yokohama went from 12th with 41 points to Champions with 70 points.

Brisbane went from 9th with 30 points to Champions with 65 points.

I don't even know why you bother answering that bloke mate he can't comprehend anything above that looks s**t so is s**t

 

[chef]

5-0. Nice.

Jackson starting to get more reward for his efforts. Not having a bad debut season, just needs a bit more composure that'll come through experience.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I don't even know why you bother answering that bloke mate he can't comprehend anything above that looks s**t so is s**t

Melting because not everyone loves Ange. Stay classy.

 

[chef]

 

[Bradesmaen]

I assume they mean 21 and under cause he's about to turn 22 (tomorrow)

Assume one is Rooney and the other is Foden?

EDIT: Apparently it's Robbie Fowler & Chris Sutton.

 

[jd2010]

Right so we can probably leave it there then because I've never said he's guaranteed to be a success. But it's worked everywhere else he's been and youd be stupid to think he's gonna abandon his methods after a handful of bad results. If he tries and fails to turn spurs into a powerful attacking team then so be it. If you think this version of the team is the best version he can coach then so be it. I really dont think it is.

Klopp took years to alter his all out gegen press to suit the premier league, he also got given 3 superstar world class players in Alisson Van Dijk and Salah. Talk to me when Ange doesn't have the clear weakest squad in the top 7
Despite their s**t form Chelsea would have more players in a best 11 than Spurs would.

Handful? 2 wins in 12 isn't a handful.

I thought we'd start the season this way and force Levy to be resolute by not sacking him before Xmas. So it's not that I expected a 1 season turnaround.

I'm just starting to lean towards Anges stubborn nature limiting him to 2 seasons at the very top level of management. Hopefully he proves me wrong and from season 2 onwards he backs away slightly from Plan A only and shows some tactical acumen and makes smarter decisions and improves on 60 goals conceded and hits over 70 points

 

[Frank Bunn]

I don't even know why you bother answering that bloke mate he can't comprehend anything above that looks s**t so is s**t

I'm sure there will be a Simpsons or Jennifer Lawrence GIF that will rebut my argument.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Handful? 2 wins in 12 isn't a handful.

It is for Trump.

 

[jod23]

Right so we can probably leave it there then because I've never said he's guaranteed to be a success. But it's worked everywhere else he's been and youd be stupid to think he's gonna abandon his methods after a handful of bad results. If he tries and fails to turn spurs into a powerful attacking team then so be it. If you think this version of the team is the best version he can coach then so be it. I really dont think it is.

Klopp took years to alter his all out gegen press to suit the premier league, he also got given 3 superstar world class players in Alisson Van Dijk and Salah. Talk to me when Ange doesn't have the clear weakest squad in the top 7
Despite their s**t form Chelsea would have more players in a best 11 than Spurs would.

Why do you keep returning to Klopp? Ange has nothing to do with Klopp.

Ange's main problem is he refuses to budge on how he plays football. You cant come to Anfield and play the way they played or you will be down 4-0 before you know it. Just like his team was.

He has to be pragmatic at time but he is very stubborn.

He needs time to bring in the right players to suit his system but even with the right players, Im not sure the system is gonna work anyways. Guess we will find out in the next couple of years.

 

[jod23]

29 points turnaround for Celtic in one season.

In one season under Ange, Yokohama went from 12th with 41 points to Champions with 70 points.

Brisbane went from 9th with 30 points to Champions with 65 points.

That's all well and good, you can probably play his system against teams like Kashima Antlers, Livingston and the Newcastle Jets but you cant play that same system against Liverpool, Man City and Arsenal.

 

[jd2010]

Why do you keep returning to Klopp? Ange has nothing to do with Klopp.

Ange's main problem is he refuses to budge on how he plays football. You cant come to Anfield and play the way they played or you will be down 4-0 before you know it. Just like his team was.

He has to be pragmatic at time but he is very stubborn.

He needs time to bring in the right players to suit his system but even with the right players, Im not sure the system is gonna work anyways. Guess we will find out in the next couple of years.

The worrying part of it with Ange isn't so much the we will play our way bit.

It's the mind-numbing tactical decisions he makes when trying to do so. A limited RB playing as an inverted LB against the best pressers in the league. That's how goal 3 comes about.

Playing without a ST and not looking like scoring to bringing one on scoring 2 and looking like a chance to scores others is another.

At least lose your way trying to win. Playing Emerson at LB and Son at ST is just stupidity.

 

[SC_Power]

Melting because not everyone loves Ange. Stay classy.

I copped it earlier this year because their good early table position was masked by a lot of expected lower half wins and a couple of lucky performances against good teams.

I don’t go there anymore. Even though it was true then, and it’s true now.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I copped it earlier this year because their good early table position was masked by a lot of expected lower half wins and a couple of lucky performances against good teams.

I don’t go there anymore. Even though it was true then, and it’s true now.

Never deal with fanatics, they're impossible to talk to. That is the lesson.