Analysis Fan culture vs Forum culture, a deeper analysis!

[John Who]

Since I'm actually on a few days break, I might as well extrapolate and answer my thread questions.
I'm a member of other forums (not sporting-related) and I can say that the there is a clear difference in the mindset of the usual regulars on BF and the welcoming or the lack thereof of new members who has a differing opinion to the "standard norm".

Here are some issues I can see:
1. Being a Crows fan is unique in its pattern of premierships, 2 in the first 8 years and then nil in the next 19 years (although results still pending later this year). The early bite of the premiership cherry has left us fans wanting for more, and we've been teased dangling the cherry in front of our faces on several other years and not allowed to have anymore bites. This perhaps will lead to a lot of anger/anxiety/frustrations/paranoia, ongoing ruminations of "will we ever win another one?"
2. I think it's fair to say, being online and reading daily, the passion tends to consume your life more than you would like to admit. This is probably the key difference to an online fan versus an offline fan...the level of passion and dedication in the discussions and analyses.
3. Online forums are guided by the dominant personalities and/or the level of Modding in promoting free speech and/or demoting the acts of "trolling"
4. The "like" button can aid in an appreciation of someone's comments. If done correctly, the forum theoretically would expand and encourage the "for and against" manner. However (and this is one of my main points), trolls or someone who aren't an actual Crows fans could easily talk negative, and if there is no "watch" on the level of negativity, then the trolls would run rampant day by day, copying and pasting on comments who were initially analytical, but are then regurged by trolls, and then the level of negativity may lead to eventually being indistinguishable from negative analyses (by a Crows fan) versus trolling (by someone who don't actually care about the Crows).
5. Some "veterans" on this forum think they know it all, and newbies shouldn't speak, but just to conform. It is not a good mindset to take, as the "newbies" may actually be someone who has good insight into the Crows gameplan, they might actually be Crows players or maybe even Don Pyke himself! Do not mistake for someone with 10,000 posts as someone who necessarily knows more than someone with 10 posts. But I feel this is what's happening in some parts of the forum.
6. Regular members vs newly joined members are different by the virtue of "tolerance". This is a psychological term which means, the more you see, read, or use something, the more you're mind becomes used to it, and wanting more of the same. So if you're a long-time member, then a certain level of negativity would likely seem "normal", whereas a newcomer may see it as "whoa! radical negativity I've never been exposed to!"
7. Hypocrisy is at play in an online environment more so than offline. Differing opinions in an online environment is often met with strong opposing opinions, and often mindless personal attacks. For example, if argued face to face, I don't think the word "troll" would be used by anyone in a real life environment.

Hope this is a good read for some. I would like to hear more personal thoughts and less of the personal attacks.

 

[marty36]

Since I'm actually on a few days break, I might as well extrapolate and answer my thread questions.
I'm a member of other forums (not sporting-related) and I can say that the there is a clear difference in the mindset of the usual regulars on BF and the welcoming or the lack thereof of new members who has a differing opinion to the "standard norm".

Here are some issues I can see:
1. Being a Crows fan is unique in its pattern of premierships, 2 in the first 8 years and then nil in the next 19 years (although results still pending later this year). The early bite of the premiership cherry has left us fans wanting for more, and we've been teased dangling the cherry in front of our faces on several other years and not allowed to have anymore bites. This perhaps will lead to a lot of anger/anxiety/frustrations/paranoia, ongoing ruminations of "will we ever win another one?"
2. I think it's fair to say, being online and reading daily, the passion tends to consume your life more than you would like to admit. This is probably the key difference to an online fan versus an offline fan...the level of passion and dedication in the discussions and analyses.
3. Online forums are guided by the dominant personalities and/or the level of Modding in promoting free speech and/or demoting the acts of "trolling"
4. The "like" button can aid in an appreciation of someone's comments. If done correctly, the forum theoretically would expand and encourage the "for and against" manner. However (and this is one of my main points), trolls or someone who aren't an actual Crows fans could easily talk negative, and if there is no "watch" on the level of negativity, then the trolls would run rampant day by day, copying and pasting on comments who were initially analytical, but are then regurged by trolls, and then the level of negativity may lead to eventually being indistinguishable from negative analyses (by a Crows fan) versus trolling (by someone who don't actually care about the Crows).
5. Some "veterans" on this forum think they know it all, and newbies shouldn't speak, but just to conform. It is not a good mindset to take, as the "newbies" may actually be someone who has good insight into the Crows gameplan, they might actually be Crows players or maybe even Don Pyke himself! Do not mistake for someone with 10,000 posts as someone who necessarily knows more than someone with 10 posts. But I feel this is what's happening in some parts of the forum.
6. Regular members vs newly joined members are different by the virtue of "tolerance". This is a psychological term which means, the more you see, read, or use something, the more you're mind becomes used to it, and wanting more of the same. So if you're a long-time member, then a certain level of negativity would likely seem "normal", whereas a newcomer may see it as "whoa! radical negativity I've never been exposed to!"
7. Hypocrisy is at play in an online environment more so than offline. Differing opinions in an online environment is often met with strong opposing opinions, and often mindless personal attacks. For example, if argued face to face, I don't think the word "troll" would be used by anyone in a real life environment.

Hope this is a good read for some. I would like to hear more personal thoughts and less of the personal attacks.

So it's not the same as instagram but I do use the like button


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Murray2503]

This topic is something I feel a worthwhile discussion, and warrants some self-reflection on all our parts.
The thread is about us being Crows fans as well as being a part of an online forum, are we the same or different to other Crows fans who don't belong to any online forum?

Firstly, I think it's fair to say, any Crows fans (online/offline) would feel a little nervy with the rollercoaster ride it has been in the last 20 odd years. We probably were a little spoilt for rewards for being a Crows fans with back-to-back premierships in the first 8 years since the Crows inception. With the subsequent years of either missing out on Finals or losing out in Semi-Finals/Preliminary Finals, it is understandable that a lot of the supporters would be erring on the side of caution on the side's prospective chances in the Finals and how deep we can go when the time comes.

With the above being said, I do believe as a forum, the culture that has developed over the years has created a more negative atmosphere with harsher criticisms on the team with one fan's angst/fear/post-traumatic stress feeding onto the next fan, and so forth. Whilst a casual fan who doesn't go online, are likely less bombarded with the negative feelings as compared with an online user.

The questions I'm asking:
1. Do you believe the general sentiments of an online Crows fan, the same as those who don't log online?
2. Are the forum fans more negative than those non-forum members?
3. If being negative is the tone of the forum, then how is it distinguishable from trolls who deliberately come on and talk trash for the sake of talking trash?
4. Could there be times when a genuine fan is trying to be positive, against the general wave of negativity, and they are miscontrued as being trolls/naive?
5. Further thoughts?

Always wary when a debutant raises such questions. They are valid questions to ponder as long as the motives are in the right spirit of making our club the best it can be. The hypothetical questions seem to be someone within the club most likely that is wondering why there may be so much hostility towards the club when we are sitting second on the ladder. This can be answered by a number of points. 1) Lack of success over 20 years. 2) Not standing up in finals continually 3) Coaching staff making excuses 4) Coaching staff not being honest with supporters 5) Non-sensical selection 6) Lack of boldness in selection 6) Stubborness on match day 7) Traded players performing better at new clubs 8) Lack of drafting local talent 9) Lack of player retention. I could go on but these are most of the key issues that cause criticism and negativity. Some of us are guilty of going over the top. Maybe because we care, probably more then players and staff. I guess sometimes we shouldn't care as much as we do but sometimes when success is so fleeting it turns into an obsession which is not healthy. Success will stop a lot of the negativity on here but for some it is not coming as quick as we would like.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I see it as a bit of a Roadrunner/Wile E Coyote situation

We're all barracking hard for the Coyote to win but he keeps being thwarted at the final hurdle. Every season there's a new episode and we get our hopes up. Maybe he'll catch the Roadrunner this time and finally enjoy a scrumptious meal?

However some are becoming cynical over time due to repeated failures. He's going to stuff it up. The dynamite won't go off and when he goes in to check the fuse he'll blow himself up. The ledge will break... typical Coyote. Doesn't he know all this ACME stuff is garbage? Why doesn't he try a new supplier or some different tactics? Don't know why we bother watching anymore.

Others are remaining optimistic - No, this time the rocket launcher and roller skates will work. I have faith. What's the matter with everyone else? Are you actually a Coyote supporter or not?

 

[Damp Squarie]

Firstly, I think it's fair to say, any Crows fans (online/offline) would feel a little nervy with the rollercoaster ride it has been in the last 20 odd years. We probably were a little spoilt for rewards for being a Crows fans with back-to-back premierships in the first 8 years since the Crows inception. With the subsequent years of either missing out on Finals or losing out in Semi-Finals/Preliminary Finals, it is understandable...

I don't think we were spoilt, we just happened to be around when we took our chances to win B2B. We haven't taken them since/excluding where we were shafted in the 2012 prelim.

From a baby boomers perspective the last two generations who I believe make up the bulk of members on this board reflect society of today...now this is gonna hurt a few of you so don't go getting all antsy on me...you want everything now!!
It doesn't happen like that in football...just ask me, a South Adelaide supporter.

The other thing is, the completion has changed big time since winning B2B so it is much harder to have the ultimate success; however IMO it hasn't stopped the last 2 generations of fans from wanting our third flag...Now!
Don't get me wrong, I want it too but realise it's not that simple and takes a lot of planets to be aligned.

 

[LiquidCrow]

4. Could there be times when a genuine fan is trying to be positive, against the general wave of negativity, and they are miscontrued as being trolls/naive?
5. Further thoughts?

I have observed that some new posters are applauded for making a “great first post” yet others like yourself get accused of trolling. I think this comes down to individual factors, and just like in real life, people make up their minds quickly and early impressions tend to stick.

A few years ago I recall another poster who bragged about being a “pretty big deal” in the business world who came across as extremely arrogant and was subject to much (well deserved) ridicule. It is also telling that Michaelangelo Rucci was called out by numerous posters and has had accounts banned at least twice: this suggests that people are able to identify and remember one’s posting style.

In one of your earlier threads I recall you made some points that negative posters should seek help coupled with some ill-informed comments about OCD and taking it on yourself to improve the mental state of the Adelaide supporters here. This initial impression conveyed could politely be described as ignorant or grandiose, concepts associated with one who is lacking insight. It might seem unfair to be judged on these points as none of it has anything to do with your own football knowledge, but if you appear to lack credibility in one area, then people will naturally assume this applies to other areas. If you happen to start out on this footing, then you already are at a disadvantage and subsequent contributions are likely to be viewed from a position of negativity or suspicion.

3. Online forums are guided by the dominant personalities and/or the level of Modding in promoting free speech and/or demoting the acts of "trolling"

During the Tippett scandal and Dangerfield trade saga, I recall that we were getting trolled incessantly by opposition supporters and our moderation approached appeared to be fairly lax, with reasoning that it was good to have opposition posters and differing viewpoints. I also remember some in-depth discussions on the value of “Crows supporters only” threads, with similar debates on the regarding the value of opposition supporter contributions. As I don’t think there have been many of these threads used, we can assume this is still the status quo.

But here’s the dilemma: compared to other club board we are much more welcoming to opposition supporters who are allowed to criticise and talk down our club, so it’s not like we can just demand that our own Adelaide Crows supporters be prohibited from posting negatively about our club.

6. Regular members vs newly joined members are different by the virtue of "tolerance". This is a psychological term which means, the more you see, read, or use something, the more you're mind becomes used to it, and wanting more of the same.

Your application of this term is erroneous and it seems to come across as wanting to sound like an intellectual. The concept of tolerance is typically used in the context of drug and alcohol dependence where one requires increasingly amounts of a substance to achieve an effect (eg. intoxication or a high), and it seems a stretch to conclude that regular posters somehow gain this kind of benefit and “want more of the same” from posting negatively, when multiple posters have been able to praise the club after a win or when things are going well.

 

[John Who]

I see it as a bit of a Roadrunner/Wile E Coyote situation

We're all barracking hard for the Coyote to win but he keeps being thwarted at the final hurdle. Every season there's a new episode and we get our hopes up. Maybe he'll catch the Roadrunner this time and finally enjoy a scrumptious meal?

However some are becoming cynical over time due to repeated failures. He's going to stuff it up. The dynamite won't go off and when he goes in to check the fuse he'll blow himself up. The ledge will break... typical Coyote. Doesn't he know all this ACME stuff is garbage? Why doesn't he try a new supplier or some different tactics? Don't know why we bother watching anymore.

Others are remaining optimistic - No, this time the rocket launcher and roller skates will work. I have faith. What's the matter with everyone else? Are you actually a Coyote supporter or not?

This thread isn't so much on the emphasis of negativity, but more the issue of forum etiquette. If someone deserves the right to be negative, then why are the positive-minded being called out as trolls? Or why are threads seeking positivity are getting derailed by the instant such threads are made? I'm not the only newbie who has put a case about this, Crowsbloke and a few others have also made mention. Hope you can keep an open mind about this issue.

 

[John Who]

I have observed that some new posters are applauded for making a “great first post” yet others like yourself get accused of trolling. I think this comes down to individual factors, and just like in real life, people make up their minds quickly and early impressions tend to stick.

A few years ago I recall another poster who bragged about being a “pretty big deal” in the business world who came across as extremely arrogant and was subject to much (well deserved) ridicule. It is also telling that Michaelangelo Rucci was called out by numerous posters and has had accounts banned at least twice: this suggests that people are able to identify and remember one’s posting style.

In one of your earlier threads I recall you made some points that negative posters should seek help coupled with some ill-informed comments about OCD and taking it on yourself to improve the mental state of the Adelaide supporters here. This initial impression conveyed could politely be described as ignorant or grandiose, concepts associated with one who is lacking insight. It might seem unfair to be judged on these points as none of it has anything to do with your own football knowledge, but if you appear to lack credibility in one area, then people will naturally assume this applies to other areas. If you happen to start out on this footing, then you already are at a disadvantage and subsequent contributions are likely to be viewed from a position of negativity or suspicion.



During the Tippett scandal and Dangerfield trade saga, I recall that we were getting trolled incessantly by opposition supporters and our moderation approached appeared to be fairly lax, with reasoning that it was good to have opposition posters and differing viewpoints. I also remember some in-depth discussions on the value of “Crows supporters only” threads, with similar debates on the regarding the value of opposition supporter contributions. As I don’t think there have been many of these threads used, we can assume this is still the status quo.

But here’s the dilemma: compared to other club board we are much more welcoming to opposition supporters who are allowed to criticise and talk down our club, so it’s not like we can just demand that our own Adelaide Crows supporters be prohibited from posting negatively about our club.



Your application of this term is erroneous and it seems to come across as wanting to sound like an intellectual. The concept of tolerance is typically used in the context of drug and alcohol dependence where one requires increasingly amounts of a substance to achieve an effect (eg. intoxication or a high), and it seems a stretch to conclude that regular posters somehow gain this kind of benefit and “want more of the same” from posting negatively, when multiple posters have been able to praise the club after a win or when things are going well.

Finally, I get some non-judgmental responses. Great response I might add! Honestly, if I tell you my profession you probably wouldn't believe me, and I'd just prefer to keep it in the background. Let's just say I have some basic background in health science and psychology. Every term I've used in the recent weeks eg. OCD, tolerance is absolutely correct and within context. Bearing in mind I'm just talking about the persisting themes of negativity is linked with these issues.
Tolerance, agreed it's more to do with addiction issues, but it can be talked about in a similar vein as being exposed to anything for a long time. Your mind becomes more "numb" to the exposure and it feels less of an issue the more you become exposed. If say the forum is filled of positive mindset, a tolerance could still happen, and the "positive" outlook will become perceived as "the norm", but a newbie would then ask "what's with all the positivity?"

 

[Simmo28]

This topic is something I feel a worthwhile discussion, and warrants some self-reflection on all our parts.
The thread is about us being Crows fans as well as being a part of an online forum, are we the same or different to other Crows fans who don't belong to any online forum?

Firstly, I think it's fair to say, any Crows fans (online/offline) would feel a little nervy with the rollercoaster ride it has been in the last 20 odd years. We probably were a little spoilt for rewards for being a Crows fans with back-to-back premierships in the first 8 years since the Crows inception. With the subsequent years of either missing out on Finals or losing out in Semi-Finals/Preliminary Finals, it is understandable that a lot of the supporters would be erring on the side of caution on the side's prospective chances in the Finals and how deep we can go when the time comes.

With the above being said, I do believe as a forum, the culture that has developed over the years has created a more negative atmosphere with harsher criticisms on the team with one fan's angst/fear/post-traumatic stress feeding onto the next fan, and so forth. Whilst a casual fan who doesn't go online, are likely less bombarded with the negative feelings as compared with an online user.

The questions I'm asking:
1. Do you believe the general sentiments of an online Crows fan, the same as those who don't log online?
2. Are the forum fans more negative than those non-forum members?
3. If being negative is the tone of the forum, then how is it distinguishable from trolls who deliberately come on and talk trash for the sake of talking trash?
4. Could there be times when a genuine fan is trying to be positive, against the general wave of negativity, and they are miscontrued as being trolls/naive?
5. Further thoughts?

When is the uni thesis due?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sanders]

When is the uni thesis due?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Horse trainers from the big end of town don't do essays

 

[mistylake]

This thread isn't so much on the emphasis of negativity, but more the issue of forum etiquette. If someone deserves the right to be negative, then why are the positive-minded being called out as trolls? Or why are threads seeking positivity are getting derailed by the instant such threads are made? I'm not the only newbie who has put a case about this, Crowsbloke and a few others have also made mention. Hope you can keep an open mind about this issue.

Must admit, I have wondered if John Who and Crowsbloke are one in the same.
This is a Comment not a question.

 

[jaytex]

Finally, I get some non-judgmental responses. Great response I might add! Honestly, if I tell you my profession you probably wouldn't believe me, and I'd just prefer to keep it in the background. Let's just say I have some basic background in health science and psychology.

If you'd prefer to keep it in the background, why do you keep bringing it up, ad infinitum?
Statements (or ill disguised hints) of grandeur dont give you cred, and just come across as both naivè and patronizing.

 

[TexFactor]

However (and this is one of my main points), trolls or someone who aren't an actual Crows fans could easily talk negative,

now we're being hit with the russian hacking narrative.

 

[Vhaluus]

Holy s**t, this entire thread is an exercise in judgement, hypocrisy and bullshit spewing by the koolaid drinkers.

 

[Sanders]

Must admit, I have wondered if John Who and Crowsbloke are one in the same.
This is a Comment not a question.

Not much doubt about that, but who are they originally?

I'm assuming it's Webster

 

[Sanders]

If you'd prefer to keep it in the background, why do you keep bringing it up, ad infinitum?
Statements (or ill disguised hints) of grandeur dont give you cred, and just come across as both naivè and patronizing.

He can't give his "real" job because it's likely there will be people on here who do actually have that job who will see through and embarrass his story

When it's vague he can still pretend

 

[Vhaluus]

Finally, I get some non-judgmental responses. Great response I might add! Honestly, if I tell you my profession you probably wouldn't believe me, and I'd just prefer to keep it in the background. Let's just say I have some basic background in health science and psychology. Every term I've used in the recent weeks eg. OCD, tolerance is absolutely correct and within context. Bearing in mind I'm just talking about the persisting themes of negativity is linked with these issues.
Tolerance, agreed it's more to do with addiction issues, but it can be talked about in a similar vein as being exposed to anything for a long time. Your mind becomes more "numb" to the exposure and it feels less of an issue the more you become exposed. If say the forum is filled of positive mindset, a tolerance could still happen, and the "positive" outlook will become perceived as "the norm", but a newbie would then ask "what's with all the positivity?"

I'm going to say third year uni student who thinks that is a much bigger deal than it actually is.

 

[marty36]

Finally, I get some non-judgmental responses. Great response I might add! Honestly, if I tell you my profession you probably wouldn't believe me, and I'd just prefer to keep it in the background. Let's just say I have some basic background in health science and psychology. Every term I've used in the recent weeks eg. OCD, tolerance is absolutely correct and within context. Bearing in mind I'm just talking about the persisting themes of negativity is linked with these issues.
Tolerance, agreed it's more to do with addiction issues, but it can be talked about in a similar vein as being exposed to anything for a long time. Your mind becomes more "numb" to the exposure and it feels less of an issue the more you become exposed. If say the forum is filled of positive mindset, a tolerance could still happen, and the "positive" outlook will become perceived as "the norm", but a newbie would then ask "what's with all the positivity?"

I like the thread John

But let's be honest it's just another blog or social media site where you can use it for what it was designed for which is entertainment or amusement

Some older people take it extremely serious and take things to heart or you can act like a grommie and seriously not give a toss about anything and treat things in life with a pinch of salt

If people abuse you, you can report them or treat it as water of a ducks back as no one actually knows who you are so who cares anyway. I think I've only ever reported a couple and that was only because I got reported myself so more retaliation I have no one on ignore except for some Geelong poster who was PM me all the time and he was pissing me off. I have all my notifications off hate the little red light coming on all the time

I actually enjoy the amusement so much so I have two companies and contacted the controlling company of BF to investigate advertising on this particular site as they have a few sites


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[John Who]

Any individual who want to get personal with me on page 6 of this thread, want to give me your numbers, so I can call to arrange a group catchup?

On a side note, I wonder if Sanders and Vhaluus are two of the same? And also, thanks for the remarks this morning, which highlights my point very well on forum behavior. Thanks for the demonstration peeps!

marty, thanks for being a cool guy with the responses! Love your work!

 

[Southerntakeover]

. If done correctly, the forum theoretically would expand and encourage the "for and against" manner. However (and this is one of my main points), trolls or someone who aren't an actual Crows fans could easily talk negative, and if there is no "watch" on the level of negativity, then the trolls would run rampant day by day, copying and pasting on comments who were initially analytical, but are then regurged by trolls, and then the level of negativity may lead to eventually being indistinguishable from negative analyses (by a Crows fan) versus trolling (by someone who don't actually care about the Crows).

Can we add 'trolling' to the list of concepts that you're misapplying?

I mean, as amusing as it is to suggest that trolling is to repeat consensus positions but to not truly hold them at heart that's way off the mark.

 

[marty36]

Any individual who want to get personal with me on page 6 of this thread, want to give me your numbers, so I can call to arrange a group catchup?

On a side note, I wonder if Sanders and Vhaluus are two of the same? And also, thanks for the remarks this morning, which highlights my point very well on forum behavior. Thanks for the demonstration peeps!

marty, thanks for being a cool guy with the responses! Love your work!

I even gave you a like

I wonder if people count their likes, in a similar way they do on insta?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Any individual who want to get personal with me on page 6 of this thread, want to give me your numbers, so I can call to arrange a group catchup?

Oh cool. We're on the 'fight me' gambit early this time. I bet those keyboard warriors won't even give you their credit card details. I'm making chicken noises at the computer right now.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I wonder if people count their likes, in a similar way they do on insta?

I can't speak for others, but I find the notifications bothersome. The popularity of my posting is a constant burden that I must shoulder for the greater good.

 

[skoobydoo]

actually I'm really only interested in FOOTBALL.......

 

[Smoooothy]

this place will be unrecognisable if we actually ever win a flag

i mean, it'll be in the year 2057