Fantasy draft

[ButteredCrumpet]

If our 1st round picks had fallen in different years during last decade or so

Eg: pick 1 Fraser in 1999 for pick 1 Riewoldt in 2000

Draft picks:

97: pick 9 Tarrant and *Medhurst/Reid* (Hamish McIntosh)
98: No 1st round pick
99: pick 1 Fraser (Nick Riewoldt) pick 7 Roach (Joel Selwood)
00: pick 3 Didak (Chris Judd)
01: pick 11 Cole (Darren Glass)
02: No 1st round pick
03: pick 17 Morrison (James Kelly)
04: pick 10 Egan (Jordan McMahon)
05: Pick 2 Thomas (Jarryd Roughead) - pick 5 Pendlebury (Lance Franklin)
06: pick 8 Brown (Joel Corey)
07: No 1st round pick

Team:

B: O'Brien Glass Maxwell
HB: Shaw Anthony Clarke
C: Selwood Judd Swan
HF: Cloke Riewoldt Corrie
F: Roughead Franklin Davis

FOLL: McIntosh Corey Kelly

INT: Lockyer O'Bree McMahon Wood

 

[hellfire]

Why is Joel Corey in 2006?

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

Why is Joel Corey in 2006?

Our pick 8 was in 06, Corey was selected at pick 8 also, so you have to give up Brown for him if theoretically our pick 8 had come in the year Corey was selected

 

[hellfire]

Our pick 8 was in 06, Corey was selected at pick 8 also, so you have to give up Brown for him if theoretically our pick 8 had come in the year Corey was selected

Yes but wasn't he drafted in 1999?

Ohhhh I see... I thought you were going for the year after or something. I didn't look at it thoroughly. My mistake.

 

[Snag Breac]

What new form of torture is this, Crumpet?

 

[DoubleO7]

Wasn't Brown pick 10 in the 2006 draft?

 

[wicksy]

Wasn't Brown pick 10 in the 2006 draft?

Yes!! Reid was pick 8.

This thread makes no sense to me I'm afraid.

Imagine if we got every pick 1, 2 and 3 in every draft.
Imagine if we could raise the dead and they could play for us.
Imagine if we could win a premiership in the next 50 years.

IMAGINE!!

 

[shawthing09]

I think BC is trying to push the idea that drafting and therefore list management and therefore winning a premiership has more to do with luck then anything else. Therefore the board and the football department should be forgiven for not winning one in so long.

picks over the course of 10 years shows that unlike most other clubs we have not commited to a rebuild at any stage. It also fails to acknowledge the decisions to trade put Egan as garunteed pick 7 - 10 and trade pick 7 for 10 because we knew we would get Egan and wanted Morrison. The Mckee trade etc.

There is an element of luck but the amount of luck involved is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Players with poor attitude. Injuries, or who fail develop physically etc. As a whole list management is controlable. Our drafting in recent years is testement to that. It's not a freak result that our list has improved tremendously since Hine jumped on board. His a better guage of talent and upside and a better manager of the list.

 

[odoyle_rules]

Marty Clarke on the bench for McMahon!

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

There is an element of luck but the amount of luck involved is minimal in the overall scheme of things.

Luck in a lottery is never a small thing..

One year Xavier Clarke is pick 5.. another year Lance Franklin is pick 5..

Colin Sylvia pick 3.. Chris Judd pick 3

Dumb bastard luck

 

[shawthing09]

Luck in a lottery is never a small thing..

One year Xavier Clarke is pick 5.. another year Lance Franklin is pick 5..

Colin Sylvia pick 3.. Chris Judd pick 3

Dumb bastard luck

More often then not the first round picks are at least servicable. Sometimes there are major drafting gaffs, others there is bad luck but on average at least serviceable. The range from servicable to elite is huge but that is why most sides including 3 of this years top for had commited rebuild periods where they cellar dwelled to increase there chances of getting that star quality.

There is also as I have mentioned and as Hawthorn have done very well in the past and we did over the last couple years things like trading into strong drafts and out of weak drafts. As you say draft quality differs every year but there is a fair indication of that well before the draft is held. The Hodge Judd etc draft had people raving well before draft day and people continue to talk of that draft in that way. Similarly people where very open to admitt last years draft was a relatively weak one.

To look at any year in isolation is certainly a dumb luck thing but drafting to build a list is an ongonig thing and you don't have to build a list of elite players. You don't even need a list that is clearly the best. The luck involved in managing your list and building a list to give yourself the best possible chance of winning a premiership is minimal. Like I said if it was all luck the change in our overall drafting and list quality wouldn't have seen such a great improvement since Hine got involved.

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

More often then not the first round picks are at least servicable.

Servicable and Judd/Franklin are the difference between flags and also rans

 

[shawthing09]

Servicable and Judd/Franklin are the difference between flags and also rans

You isolate a quote and respond to it and think that makes you right. Hawthorn have their fair share of first round misses too. Thorp is yet to play a game Dowler and Bailey were first rounders too and Musten was taken realtively early too. However they commited to the rebuild and over a course of 4-5 years. They traded into the draft over that time and came up with a very strong list.

St Kilda did the same and again top four. Western Bulldogs similar although they are not as much of a contender come crunch time due to poor recruiting and failure to acknowledge the KP's

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

You isolate a quote and respond to it and think that makes you right.

When have I ever done that?.. And of course I'm right!

 

[shawthing09]

When have I ever done that?.. And of course I'm right!

In a majority of your arguements with people who isolate single lines and make your response based on the one line you can exploit. As I said most are at least servicable hence you have to mimimise your misses and build in a proper fashion. Part of the reason people are critical of our failure to win a premiership is that we have had our fair share of decent picks but we have had our real high picks over a long stretch hence increasing that lottery effect. If you rebuild over a single stretch you increase your chances to get with a good mix of solid and star players. As I said there is no coincednce that 3 out of the top four this year followed this kind of model. Geelong of course fall into your luck category because of their freak run of Father / Son picks which not only has supplied them with some of their great talent but has also allowed them to take more risks in their drafting etc.

Also as I said if you look at the list we have now in the Hine drafts compared to our pre Hine drafts we have far more quality and far less absolute misses. I suppose that has nothing to do with the fact that Hine is a rather good manager of the list and gauge of upside and far better then Judkins?

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

Geelong of course fall into your luck category because of their freak run of Father / Son picks which not only has supplied them with some of their great talent but has also allowed them to take more risks in their drafting etc.

And Hawthorn got Franklin with a pick 5 and Rioli with a pick 12..

So the difference between flags and also rans... luck.. glad we agree

 

[shawthing09]

And Hawthorn got Franklin with a pick 5 and Rioli with a pick 12..

So the difference between flags and also rans... luck.. glad we agree

Franklin didn't win them a premiership on his own nor did Rioli. They have depth in the kpf stakes and 1st year HFF's don't win you premierships. Highlighting stages of fortune doesn't mean the whole premiership was due to luck. They also drafted Hodge ahead of Judd (Although I don't think Judd's a better player)

As I said by commiting to their rebuild in one hit they where always going to get their share of the luck involved in drafting which evens itself out with the bad luck in drafting Bailey in the first round and having him sit out with injuries since being drafted etc. If you try to look at it in isolated incidence of course it looks lucky but it's certainly controlable.

 

[swiftdog]

I was expecting this to be a thread along the lines of:

99: 1.Pavlich (Fraser), 7.Glass (Roach), 18.Chapman (R.Shaw), 34.O' Keefe (L.Davis), 62.Bruce (Johnson)

00: 3.Didak, 19.Charman (J.Cloke), 34.M.Williams (Lonie), 37.McPhee (Richards), 49.Wakelin,

01: 11.S.Johnson (Cole), 27.Mitchell (Davidson), 43.Medhurst(McGough), 58.Swan, 72.Walker

02: 21.Rivers (Nixon), 43.Shirley (C.Cloke), 58. Malceski (King), 70.B.Fisher (Lokan)

03: 17.Mundy (Morrison), 32.Adcock (B.Shaw), 35.S.Fisher (Hall), 48.H.Shaw, 60.Rischkitelli (Rowe)

04: 10.Wood (Egan), 23.Prismall (Rusling, sorry Rus), 39.T.Cloke, 55.M.Egan (Iacobucci)





FB: Shaw Glass O'Brien
HB: S.Fisher M.Egan Malceski
C: Didak Mitchell (C) Thomas
HF: O'Keefe Cloke Chapman
FF: S.Johnson Pavlich (V.C) M.Williams
R: Charman Swan Pendlebury (V.C)

Int: Wood, Clarke, Medhurst, Davis

Emg: Mundy, Prismall, Adcock


That would be a decent team. I love procrastination.

For the sake of it I'll post the rest of the list:
Rocca
Prestigiacomo (I think these were the only two players taken before 99)
O'Bree
Maxwell
Stanley
Cook
Anthony
Toovey
Cox
Brown
Dawes
Dick
Goldsack
Bryan
Wellingham
Macaffer
McPhee
Rance*
McCarthy
Thoolen
Barham
Dyas - R
Rivers
B.Fisher
Rischketteli
Shirley

* We wouldn't have done the Medhurst trade and wouldn't have got 2006 pick 8, hence no reid. We wouldn't have done the trade for Wood as we picked him up in the draft and hence would have kept pick 14 which I used on Rance (he's a KPP isn't he?, he would be in Reids spot)

IIRC there can only be 36 players on a list come draft time, not including rookies? 14 players on the not on the field list would have to make way. De-listed/never would have been picked up:
O' Bree (retired, he would have made way elegantly as he was no longer needed)
Maxwell (I like him but just not as good as the players filling in his position)
B.Fisher (Don't like him)
Thoolen (has shown nothing)
Toovey (not good enough)
Stanley (not good enough)
Shirley (other players better than him, age a factor)
Rocca (age)
Prestigiacomo (age)
McPhee (see Shirley)
Cox (if our list was like this probably never would have picke him up anyway)
Riscitelli (Can't really de-list a kid and finding it hard at this point)
Macaffer (either him or Wellingham had to go)
Rivers (overtaken by Brown, have Brown and Mundy as other KP back)

As I said, really bored

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

Franklin didn't win them a premiership on his own nor did Rioli.

Yeah it was shocking luck snagging Franklin at 5 and Rioli at 12

 

[M-Train]

If our 1st round picks had fallen in different years during last decade or so

Eg: pick 1 Fraser in 1999 for pick 1 Riewoldt in 2000

Draft picks:

97: pick 9 Tarrant and *Medhurst/Reid* (Hamish McIntosh)
98: No 1st round pick
99: pick 1 Fraser (Nick Riewoldt) pick 7 Roach (Joel Selwood)
00: pick 3 Didak (Chris Judd)
01: pick 11 Cole (Darren Glass)
02: No 1st round pick
03: pick 17 Morrison (James Kelly)
04: pick 10 Egan (Jordan McMahon)
05: Pick 2 Thomas (Jarryd Roughead) - pick 5 Pendlebury (Lance Franklin)
06: pick 8 Brown (Joel Corey)
07: No 1st round pick

Team:

B: O'Brien Glass Maxwell
HB: Shaw Anthony Clarke
C: Selwood Judd Swan
HF: Cloke Riewoldt Corrie
F: Roughead Franklin Davis

FOLL: McIntosh Corey Kelly

INT: Lockyer O'Bree McMahon Wood

this draft is completely flawed!

 

[M-Train]

I was expecting this to be a thread along the lines of:

99: 1.Pavlich (Fraser), 7.Glass (Roach), 18.Chapman (R.Shaw), 34.O' Keefe (L.Davis), 62.Bruce (Johnson)

00: 3.Didak, 19.Charman (J.Cloke), 34.M.Williams (Lonie), 37.McPhee (Richards), 49.Wakelin,

01: 11.S.Johnson (Cole), 27.Mitchell (Davidson), 43.Medhurst(McGough), 58.Swan, 72.Walker

02: 21.Rivers (Nixon), 43.Shirley (C.Cloke), 58. Malceski (King), 70.B.Fisher (Lokan)

03: 17.Mundy (Morrison), 32.Adcock (B.Shaw), 35.S.Fisher (Hall), 48.H.Shaw, 60.Rischkitelli (Rowe)

04: 10.Wood (Egan), 23.Prismall (Rusling, sorry Rus), 39.T.Cloke, 55.M.Egan (Iacobucci)





FB: Shaw Glass O'Brien
HB: S.Fisher M.Egan Malceski
C: Didak Mitchell (C) Thomas
HF: O'Keefe Cloke Chapman
FF: S.Johnson Pavlich (V.C) M.Williams
R: Charman Swan Pendlebury (V.C)

Int: Wood, Clarke, Medhurst, Davis

Emg: Mundy, Prismall, Adcock


That would be a decent team. I love procrastination.

For the sake of it I'll post the rest of the list:
Rocca
Prestigiacomo (I think these were the only two players taken before 99)
O'Bree
Maxwell
Stanley
Cook
Anthony
Toovey
Cox
Brown
Dawes
Dick
Goldsack
Bryan
Wellingham
Macaffer
McPhee
Rance*
McCarthy
Thoolen
Barham
Dyas - R
Rivers
B.Fisher
Rischketteli
Shirley

* We wouldn't have done the Medhurst trade and wouldn't have got 2006 pick 8, hence no reid. We wouldn't have done the trade for Wood as we picked him up in the draft and hence would have kept pick 14 which I used on Rance (he's a KPP isn't he?, he would be in Reids spot)

IIRC there can only be 36 players on a list come draft time, not including rookies? 14 players on the not on the field list would have to make way. De-listed/never would have been picked up:
O' Bree (retired, he would have made way elegantly as he was no longer needed)
Maxwell (I like him but just not as good as the players filling in his position)
B.Fisher (Don't like him)
Thoolen (has shown nothing)
Toovey (not good enough)
Stanley (not good enough)
Shirley (other players better than him, age a factor)
Rocca (age)
Prestigiacomo (age)
McPhee (see Shirley)
Cox (if our list was like this probably never would have picke him up anyway)
Riscitelli (Can't really de-list a kid and finding it hard at this point)
Macaffer (either him or Wellingham had to go)
Rivers (overtaken by Brown, have Brown and Mundy as other KP back)

As I said, really bored

much better draft!

 

[shawthing09]

Yeah it was shocking luck snagging Franklin at 5 and Rioli at 12

It's clear that your either Eddie's best mate. Eddie's biggest fan, on the payroll or shagging him. You should try be more subtle.

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

It's clear that your either Eddie's best mate. Eddie's biggest fan, on the payroll or shagging him. You should try be more subtle.

I'm just not a whiner like some

 

[shawthing09]

I'm just not a whiner like some

Whiner or realist. Is it a whiner to acknowledge that drafting and list management is within your control to a reasonable degree. Is it being a whiner to acknowledge in such a cut throat game with such limited list space that list management is the most important controlable aspect of our game.

 

[ButteredCrumpet]

Ahhh control.. the delusion of man.. the laughter of god