News Geelong’s list boss Stephen Wells to take some time away from his role

[Turbocat]

True, but we never had that many to begin with. Even going back to 1999 we've only had 4 picks in total from within the top 10 (Corey, Bartel, Mackie, and Tenace). It was a point of pride for plenty of Geelong fans that unlikely especially Carlton, St.Kilda, and Hawthorn we built a great team without very early or priority picks. Not one.

And while we definitely didn't drop that badly at any point (haven't finished bottom 4 since 1986), he still managed to find Kelly, Chapman, Ling, Enright, Johnson etc. from way outside the perceived early pick range. It seems that plenty on here don't seem to think that's even possible now. At the same club, with the same recruiter.

Agree completely on development too. Vital.

Certainly .. its a blend of early and not early picks... too many of either seems to distort a list. Corey, Bartel, Mackie, Tenace and Selwood are far from the sole reason we were flag winners, and some may say that picking top 10 kids that requires less of peopel like SW than the later picks. Its rare that names come from no where to be in the top10 now, most phantomes get close to the mark... but without those players I doubt we can build a flags side from scratch. Historically there may be examples but ist very rare. Most , if not all premierships sides have players they have drafted from within the top 10. I cant think of when the last flags side did not have someone like that .

That we also had such good Father Sons results , that at least one of the drafts was perhaps the best draft of all time, that not all clubs were as well focused and informed ..probably distorted how well we did. In 2001 we were actually disadvantaged by priority picks... the Bartel pick should have been earlier. So sometimes fate plays a part.

So does that mean we should not go for kids.. no. I, similar to you, believe we can draft and find players .. and with time and a little luck we can players from picks within the top 40-60 kids. Just how good they will be is hard to gauge. Most will have flaw that was the cause of their dropping. Sav for example... I just do not think we can have a side built from them. In the end I think you probably lack class

Just who we miss out on for Cameron for example is hard to say... who would have we picked if we had those picks..again hard to say but again they would not have been top ten. Most likely we get one or two kids the quality of Guthrie or Parfitt. Not obviously AA but players that might just be in our best 5-10 in five years time.

 

[Turbocat]

Jordan Clark

OK.. Not obviously wrong call this early id have thought. I think there were whispers we liked Sturt.

 

[Turbocat]

No i think you are reading too much into the Caddy trade - it was just a fluke/unusual set of circumstances how that all panned out - and i dont think you can blame anyone at Geel

I have posted this before - but Caddy and his older brother ( who actually played a couple of games for Richmond ) were at an AFL final as spectators - when the game finished they just happened to bump into Brendan Gale ( who Caddys brother had played with at Rich ) . So the 3 of them are having a bit of a yack - and Caddys brother said to Gale - look Josh is restless - hed love to play for the Tigers - it was a throw away line but he said it - and it was way before anything actually happened

Then Deledio out of the blue after years of frustration playing at Rich - and because his parents live at Ocean Grove - said i want a transfer to Geel . At that point or a bit after - Gale went to Rich recruiting officer - and mentioned the conversation he had with the 2 Caddy bros - and thus Rich requested Caddy in the possible Deledio trade - that was the reason

It was just a fluke set of circumstances how that all ended up

Thats all good... and to a degree.. I have no issue with them being proactive because we do not see both sides of the list management. I have no wish to be like Collingwood last year... which means that sometimes replacing a player on good money for a drafted player is convenient for salcap. Did we get enough for him? Hard to say, we gave a mid round R1 and a late pick and received a pick in the 20's for a 24 year old... perhaps something similar to a FA comp for him while he was contracted. So to me it probably had a lot to do with us clearing space for other players.

It got us the Parfitt pick so it looks OK now, not so much when he was playing well in a flag winning side

 

[catempire]

Wells’ role has evolved in step with the industry norms. All clubs now have list managers that are involved in both draft talent identification and trading/FA.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

If Wells is this god like genius people on bigfooty think he is who uses his picks to find diamonds in the rough
Why the hell would you give away picks or trade away picks for old guys?
Wouldn't you want to give him as many picks as possibly?

If Wells was a genius at picking good players late, why would you ever want an early pick? He'd just be picking Max Holmes or Frank Evans a dozen picks earlier

 

[CatToTheFuture]

No i think you are reading too much into the Caddy trade - it was just a fluke/unusual set of circumstances how that all panned out - and i dont think you can blame anyone at Geel

I have posted this before - but Caddy and his older brother ( who actually played a couple of games for Richmond ) were at an AFL final as spectators - when the game finished they just happened to bump into Brendan Gale ( who Caddys brother had played with at Rich ) . So the 3 of them are having a bit of a yack - and Caddys brother said to Gale - look Josh is restless - hed love to play for the Tigers - it was a throw away line but he said it - and it was way before anything actually happened

Then Deledio out of the blue after years of frustration playing at Rich - and because his parents live at Ocean Grove - said i want a transfer to Geel . At that point or a bit after - Gale went to Rich recruiting officer - and mentioned the conversation he had with the 2 Caddy bros - and thus Rich requested Caddy in the possible Deledio trade - that was the reason

It was just a fluke set of circumstances how that all ended up

And where we are today I'm more than happy with Parfitt on the list over Caddy

 

[Catter]

My understanding is Wells didn't want to trade away so much for Cameron, but Scott overruled.
Also, Wells wanted to "layoff" T Selwood (for a number of reasons) but Cook was against it, as a result, he walked.

 

[Turbocat]

My understanding is Wells didn't want to trade away so much for Cameron, but Scott overruled.
Also, Wells wanted to "layoff" T Selwood (for a number of reasons) but Cook was against it, as a result, he walked.

On the bold... I struggle with. I could understand perhaps others but the whole purpose keeping a coach at a reasonable distance is to ensure separation no long term choices that damage the club after he was gone. Perhaps Scott said his piece to others ... but those others would have to make the final choice.

 

[goyoucatters]

And where we are today I'm more than happy with Parfitt on the list over Caddy

For all those who bang on about what went down with Caddy leaving (just went for a longer contract and the 'promise' of midfield time, as I understand it), this is the most pertinent information right now about the whole deal.

We're looking at Parfitt (about to be 23, with 76 games of experience) playing a more and more significant role in our midfield every year. And comparing his ongoing trajectory to Caddy (now 28), who played a role at Richmond that they really needed (and we mostly didn't) for a couple of years. And is now pretty much fringe there, anyway.

How this deal is not seen as pretty much the definition of 'win-win' is seriously bemusing to me.

 

[Turbocat]

For all those who bang on about what went down with Caddy leaving (just went for a longer contract and the 'promise' of midfield time, as I understand it), this is the most pertinent information right now about the whole deal.

We're looking at Parfitt (about to be 23, with 76 games of experience) playing a more and more significant role in our midfield every year. And comparing his ongoing trajectory to Caddy (now 28), who played a role at Richmond that they really needed (and we mostly didn't) for a couple of years. And is now pretty much fringe there, anyway.

How this deal is not seen as pretty much the definition of 'win-win' is seriously bemusing to me.

The only question is..have we missed him while Parfitt developed. From here on... we are position for it to be a WIN/win

 

[goyoucatters]

The only question is..have we missed him while Parfitt developed. From here on... we are position for it to be a WIN/win

Fair question. I would seriously say, not so much. His bullocking half-forward role suited the Tiges and their rolling maul to a tee. I don't see we would have had so much use for it. And he has not developed to the point where he would have demanded a spot in our midfield group over recent years.

In the end, he did contribute (importantly, at times) to them winning flags. I'm not convinced he would have had the same impact here. And, whether it was Parf or someone else, he would have potentially taken plenty of games off the younger players coming through at the Cattery.

Unlike those who get whacked here for supposedly changing their story overnight in relation to his departure, I was always relatively OK with him leaving. And nothing I have seen since has compelled me to alter that view. He's done particularly well for himself and we've picked up a minimum 10-year player who is going to be seriously important to us for many years to come. Textbook 'win-win' for mine.

IWWT.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

For all those who bang on about what went down with Caddy leaving (just went for a longer contract and the 'promise' of midfield time, as I understand it), this is the most pertinent information right now about the whole deal.

We're looking at Parfitt (about to be 23, with 76 games of experience) playing a more and more significant role in our midfield every year. And comparing his ongoing trajectory to Caddy (now 28), who played a role at Richmond that they really needed (and we mostly didn't) for a couple of years. And is now pretty much fringe there, anyway.

How this deal is not seen as pretty much the definition of 'win-win' is seriously bemusing to me.

It could have gone against us easily but selecting Parfitt means we stuck the landing

 

[goyoucatters]

On the bold... I struggle with. I could understand perhaps others but the whole purpose keeping a coach at a reasonable distance is to ensure separation no long term choices that damage the club after he was gone. Perhaps Scott said his piece to others ... but those others would have to make the final choice.

It's completely inconsistent with the messaging from the club on this matter to suggest that Scott had the final call. He could lobby as hard as he liked. As I'm sure he would have, in this case. Cameron is a generational player that could truly transform the club's prospects for several years to come. And, as has been noted several times now, the cost for his arrival (despite it being unnecessarily hiked by the pathetic grandstanding from GWS) is not unreasonable for a player of his quality.

In the end, it sounds suitably nefarious to suggest that Scott railroaded the whole process and just 'got his way', despite the protestations of everyone else. But this just doesn't square with the concept of list management that has a whole department dedicated to this task, with one party at the top of that pyramid designated as the 'list manager'.

As is so often the case, the clue is in the name.

 

[goyoucatters]

It could have gone against us easily but selecting Parfitt means we stuck the landing

Of course.

IWWT.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Fair question. I would seriously say, not so much. His bullocking half-forward role suited the Tiges and their rolling maul to a tee. I don't see we would have had so much use for it. And he has not developed to the point where he would have demanded a spot in our midfield group over recent years.

In the end, he did contribute (importantly, at times) to them winning flags. I'm not convinced he would have had the same impact here. And, whether it was Parf or someone else, he would have potentially taken plenty of games off the younger players coming through at the Cattery.

Unlike those who get whacked here for supposedly changing their story overnight in relation to his departure, I was always relatively OK with him leaving. And nothing I have seen since has compelled me to alter that view. He's done particularly well for himself and we've picked up a minimum 10-year player who is going to be seriously important to us for many years to come. Textbook 'win-win' for mine.

IWWT.

I would also add that if he was on the list we don't draft Kelly

 

[goyoucatters]

I would also add that if he was on the list we don't draft Kelly

Very sobering thought, that one...

 

[Partridge]

Unlike those who get whacked here for supposedly changing their story overnight in relation to his departure, I was always relatively OK with him leaving. And nothing I have seen since has compelled me to alter that view. He's done particularly well for himself and we've picked up a minimum 10-year player who is going to be seriously important to us for many years to come. Textbook 'win-win' for mine.

There's no supposedly about it. You only need to read the threads. He was valuable, going nowhere, best 22, and even still a contested bull, right up until he was traded. Then he was never any good and it didn't matter because Richmond were crap.

Of course the reality was somewhere in the middle. He was a good but not great player for us, at times very good. He never quite became the midfielder we wanted him to be and after a groin injury (from memory) he lost a little zip. Mature body though so slotted in well for them and particularly well from 2017-2019. Richmond got the best out of him for that window but it's not obvious where he gets a game now. Defensive half forward maybe. We got Parfitt who is getting better all the time, and hopefully will be around for a lot longer yet.

 

[terry_bright]

There's no supposedly about it. You only need to read the threads. He was valuable, going nowhere, best 22, and even still a contested bull, right up until he was traded. Then he was never any good and it didn't matter because Richmond were crap.

Of course the reality was somewhere in the middle. He was a good but not great player for us, at times very good. He never quite became the midfielder we wanted him to be and after a groin injury (from memory) he lost a little zip. Mature body though so slotted in well for them and particularly well from 2017-2019. Richmond got the best out of him for that window but it's not obvious where he gets a game now. Defensive half forward maybe. We got Parfitt who is getting better all the time, and hopefully will be around for a lot longer yet.

At the time, I would of liked him (Caddy) to stay but not desperately . My only issue was the compensation we got for him leaving. I thought he was worth a pick in the mid teens but I suppose it’s not where those picks are, it’s what you can do with the hand your given. And so far it’s worked out for us.

On a side note history shows us many clubs have blown their draft pick bounty that they received for trading players (incl Geelong).
We stuffed up what we got for Gaz jr even if the compensation was grossly inadequate. Coincidentally Caddy was involved in that which has now effectively become Parfitt.
The 2 biggest trades we were involved in prior to Cameron was Richmond and Ottens and then Adelaide and Dangerfield. Both clubs blew it.

Will be interesting to see in a few years if GWS nail it for the Cameron trade and also if we nailed it with the Kelly trade.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Caddy is an over rated half forward flanker. Nothing more. Anyone thinking Richmond got the better of that deal is a complete fool. Parfitt is a future AA midfielder -

 

[Catter]

On the bold... I struggle with. I could understand perhaps others but the whole purpose keeping a coach at a reasonable distance is to ensure separation no long term choices that damage the club after he was gone. Perhaps Scott said his piece to others ... but those others would have to make the final choice.

Don't want to divulge further, but it was Scott... He knew the "Dangerfield" premiership clock, and his legacy was closing. A person of Wells's significance does not leave at a drop of a hat (Mid Season). There is a bit of a boys club developing (Scott, Selwood, Dangerfield). Not only did Joel get his brothers back to the club, he even got his close friends employed (positions within the coaches box). GAJ also said he wouldn't have retired if he knew of the blokes they were recruiting.

 

[Partridge]

Caddy is an over rated half forward flanker. Nothing more. Anyone thinking Richmond got the better of that deal is a complete fool. Parfitt is a future AA midfielder -

He helped them win two premierships, and they beat us in finals both times en route to them. Those flags put them ahead for now.

 

[Partridge]

Don't want to divulge further, but it was Scott... He knew the "Dangerfield" premiership clock, and his legacy was closing. A person of Wells's significance does not leave at a drop of a hat (Mid Season). There is a bit of a boys club developing (Scott, Selwood, Dangerfield). Not only did Joel get his brothers back to the club, he even got his close friends employed (positions within the coaches box). GAJ also said he wouldn't have retired if he knew of the blokes they were recruiting.

Think it’s more than a bit, and has been developing for a fair while.

 

[dazbroncos]

The Caddy discussion is done.

If you want to go back to 2014 or whenever the * it was, grab your Delorian and have at it.

This is the Wells thread and about him stepping away from the club and his role now.

GO Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Think it’s more than a bit, and has been developing for a fair while.

Are you seriously trying to insinuate that just because we get 2 of the captains brothers to the club, one of them pushes out the greatest recruiter of all time, we put Zak Guthrie on the senior list and get James Sutherland on the board that we're becoming a bit of a boys club?

 

[thejester]

Interesting listening to Selwood talk about streamlining processes and generally doing things differently last year as a result of COVID, and whether or not they'd keep it that way post-COVID.