Autopsy Geelong defeated by Tigers by 31 points.

[feelinfeline]

Nope - but it worked before.

Yep, and there are all the other examples of it not working at other clubs.

 

[Tiger71]

[


Dusty is also the cream, I mean he's the best kind of cream sure and is always there to finish it off, but he's the biggest recipient of his team mates work further up the ground.
He finishes off what the richmond system gives him, and he has the composure and talent to take every chance given to him.
We need those types, I thought Hawkins was that kind of player however the QF and GF showed that he lacks in that area.
Danger never will be and is of an age now that he'll never be.
Outside of that I'm not sure if we really have any players that take those moments and take those chances more often than not?

Morning guys!

Have waited till now to allow some of the emotion to settle. First, great game from both sides in relation to the intent to win. Both threw everything at each other physically and it was awesome to see. People writing the cats off, do it at your peril IMO. Yes you have some aging stars but you have a wealth of talent that judging by this finals series look likely they will step right up. Guthrie reminds me so much of a richmond player, some think he is a decent roleplayer but he has shown this year he is actually a very, very good player and looks primed to take the next step. His game on Saturday, along with Stewart was immense. Both those players are fast becoming my favorite non tiger players.

I was so proud of my players paying the respect due to the little master, that was more then a nice touch. Just a pity he got injured as it would have been awesome to see him one last time in full flight.

I, if allowed just wanted to address the above point. People when they Judge Dusty, they consider him the cream due to his ability to finish and by doing so getting in he right spots to allow him to finish. It appears if you dont watch all his games that he is just benefiting from the boys work up field. That is so unfair on Dusty. He is the one that normally starts the scoring chain and by work rate wills himself in the position to finish. This year, we have not had our starting midfield for most of the year, its been left to Dusty and Shai essentially, Saturday night was probably the first time he was allowed to play his natural game, prior he has been forced to play in the center of the ground to allow us to contest and move the ball and hardly has been able to move forward as without him, our ball movement would slow forward of center.

Anyway, good luck in the off season and i have no doubt now that we have met in the GF we have birthed a true rivalry as I believe we will meet in a few more finals in the years to come and and lets all hope we get to share again the last day in September.

 

[Pollywaffle]

You know who has hit the draft consistently the last decade and a half? Blues... Demons....

You forget, we have Wells..
Their list managers are/were shyte
(Just get someone else to do the big men )

 

[Schlurp]

2 days later and all i can say this is the worse grand final loss since the 90s.

this is way worse then 2008. In 2008 we had already won a flag and it was seen as hiccup with the club clearly having more grand finals in its future.

this current team is done. This was our shot. hawkins is 33. Ablett and taylor are gone. Selwood is 33. Dangerfield is 31 and clearly on the decline. Even the likes of duncan, stanley and blicavs are now hitting 30 and will start to decline. And virtually none of the kids are coming through and the ones that are look like B graders not A graders you can build a team around.


the other thing that hurts is effing richmond now have a 3 flag era further devaluing the 2007-11 cats team Achievements.


this hurts big time. Think im going to need to take a day off work.

With respect, nothing Richmond did or could do in any way devaluates your Club's 2007-11 achievements. Like Brisbane and Hawthorn, your three Premierships are a testament to a confluence of talent identification, great coaching, excellent administration and sheer hard work. I don't doubt that Saturday night hurts but may I suggest you look to your recent finals achievements as tangible and permanent examples of how good you were, how good you are and how much better you can be.

 

[Spazz Cat]

If it were just Carlton, that would be one thing, but it's not just Carlton. There are plenty of other examples, as I've mentioned in my other post.

Maybe, just maybe, it would have worked. But if it hadn't, would all these people asking for a rebuild have been whingeing about being near the bottom for 10 years? I wonder.

It would of worked. We still had Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Duncan, Guthrie playing the other night.
Doing a rebuild shouldn't be about gutting your club and not trading anyone in.
We never did that. Even for our great era.
Just get some quality kids together and most importantly around the same age!!!!
Not one here and there.
Clark last year is a good start, add to that our 3 best picks this year, add to that next year.
Then usually by the time Menegola, Stewart, Duncan, Guthrie, Parfitt, Blitz are veterans and THEN + your FA's you've got that core group plus a decent veteran group + your cream on top FA's.
Unfortunately though because we got in a lot of those players as mature agers and cause of heavy trading that veteran group are going to be older than they should be or even retired.
We needed a couple more good ones around Parfitt's age.
So we're sort of on an endless merry go round of competing now but not quite there of too many older and too many younger and unable to never build that middle without using our good picks trade some in, which in turn keeps that merry go round turning.

 

[Partridge]

Richmond had more traded in players on their list than we did...
Hawks won 3 flags on the back of traded in players....
It's not 2000 anymore FFS, may as well go on about zoning again if you keep looking that far back.

Did they? The team that took the field on Saturday night had FOUR players from other clubs. Add five if you want to include Caddy.

Geelong had seven players from other clubs on the field, and Steven and Jenkins. And Ablett who technically would be a trade in as well.

If you want more fun reading, Richmond had no less than six players on the field Saturday night taken from either the rookie, midyear, or preseason drafts (Short, Lambert, Castagna, Baker, Pickett and most hilariously Grimes).

"BUT BUT BUT WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO TOP END TALENT". Yeah right.

 

[feelinfeline]

The difference between Scott's time and the start of Bomber's time is that we were coming off a period of great success and still had several multiple premiership players.

To rebuild, you need to cull senior players. I remember the outrage when Chapman and SJ left the club. Would people on here have been happy to trade other premiership heroes, such as Harry, for draft picks? I have my doubts.

St Kilda is an example of attempting that, and it didn't work out for the best.

 

[feelinfeline]

It would of worked. We still had Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Duncan, Guthrie playing the other night.
Doing a rebuild shouldn't be about gutting your club and not trading anyone in.
We never did that. Even for our great era.
Just get some quality kids together and most importantly around the same age!!!!
Not one here and there.
Clark last year is a good start, add to that our 3 best picks this year, add to that next year.
Then usually by the time Menegola, Stewart, Duncan, Guthrie, Parfitt, Blitz are veterans and THEN + your FA's you've got that core group plus a decent veteran group + your cream on top FA's.
Unfortunately though because we got in a lot of those players as mature agers and cause of heavy trading that veteran group are going to be older than they should be or even retired.
We needed a couple more good ones around Parfitt's age.
So we're sort of on an endless merry go round of competing now but not quite there of too many older and too many younger and unable to never build that middle without using our good picks trade some in, which in turn keeps that merry go round turning.

I can see your point, but if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

'A couple more good ones around Parfitt's age'. Yeah, that'd be nice, but there's no magical formula of falling just enough to get the good picks and then bouncing back up again.

 

[Mr X]

I was disappointed, but not angry about losing on Saturday night and I am still not angry.

I thought we had to take every chance we got to win - unfortunately we didn't when we were up and had the play in the first half. Cannot say we did not have a red hot crack and throw everything at them though.

....and then there is Martin. As unlikable personally as he seems to be (to me), he is an absolute freak of a player. Slotting all four of those goals, all under pressure and nothing given easy to him is nothing short of spectacular and he has now done it consistently on the big stage.

They were just too good on the night, and know how to beat us. I thought we had an amazing season and really could not gotten much more out of that squad than we did. Do we need to improve and have problems to solve? Absolutely. Did we deserve to be there Saturday night and did we represent ourselves well? Absolutely.

Enjoy the offseason, I don't think we have anything to be ashamed of from our 2020 campaign.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Did they? The team that took the field on Saturday night had FOUR players from other clubs. Add five if you want to include Caddy.

Geelong had seven players from other clubs on the field, and Steven and Jenkins. And Ablett who technically would be a trade in as well.

If you want more fun reading, Richmond had no less than six players on the field Saturday night taken from either the rookie, midyear, or preseason drafts (Short, Lambert, Castagna, Baker, Pickett and most hilariously Grimes).

"BUT BUT BUT WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO TOP END TALENT". Yeah right.

Fairly important 4. Ruck, rover, full forward and all australian half back. Surely everyone agrees that drafting and trading are as important as each other these days.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Prior to trading in players from other clubs their previous 4 seasons were - Lost GF, lost Prelim, lost EF, didn't make finals.
Where were they "******* good" before they started trading in players?
Was the core there? Yup, but it needed to be finished off with trades.
You know who has hit the draft consistently the last decade and a half? Blues... Demons....

I agree. But the back of their success was built from the draft. There's no question.
As you just said the core was there.
So can you build a core from FA's trades and old veterans? Has it been done?
Collingwood a bit for sure. Nearly worked once.

 

[someday-somehow]

Perhaps read the context just a little better, I clearly said you'll continue to be a sad sad person because they disagree with you aswell.
The Cats, and the rest of the competition in general, will continue doing what they want to do which you so vehemently oppose.

How is that not an insult?

Anyway I will continue to post my opinion whether you like it or not. You know that old saying? "opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one and they all stink" - and that includes yours!

 

[Partridge]

Fairly important 4. Ruck, rover, full forward and all australian half back. Surely everyone agrees that drafting and trading are as important as each other these days.

Sorry, that wasn't what you said.

You said Richmond had more traded in players than we did. That is categorically wrong.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I agree. But the back of their success was built from the draft. There's no question.
As you just said the core was there.
So can you build a core from FA's trades and old veterans? Has it been done?
Collingwood a bit for sure. Nearly worked once.

It's nearly worked for us, even though I believe our core are almost entirely drafted players.
Hence why we continued to bring them in while the core of Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins, Danger were in their prime.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Sorry, that wasn't what you said.

You said Richmond had more traded in players than we did. That is categorically wrong.

No I didn’t say anything of the sort.

my only argument is that I don’t think Bomber or Scott built anything, I think Wells does, along with support from the coaches, his recruiting team and the bean counters.

 

[winty]

Have mentioned before that our ‘close but no cigar’ seasons of last 9 years or so have seduced the club into believing the myth of always being in contention. Maybe our ability to drag ourselves into finals over that long period has caused more harm than good. This year is no different. Probably worse, as we made a grand final. We almost tasted the carrot.
Hindsight is 20 /20 vision and, as others have pointed out, rebuilding these days is a fraught process.
Scott and co will stay, but I can’t see him at this stage of his career presiding over a drastic rebuild or game plan reboot. (We might be surprised, but I doubt it)
Club admin are the same.
They are just looking at financials and have a morbid fear of a couple of seasons down the lower rungs of the ladder and the perceived effects on the bottom line, which insults the intelligence of supporters.
The result will be a bit of backslapping, some tweaking, wallpapering and off chasing the mirage for another season..
Port’s motto is ’We exist to win premierships’
Ours should be ‘We exist to be there or therabouts’

Hasn't Cook come out and said it wouldn't be financially viable for the club to do a hard rebuild and be out of contention for 4-5 years?

 

[Spazz Cat]

The difference between Scott's time and the start of Bomber's time is that we were coming off a period of great success and still had several multiple premiership players.

To rebuild, you need to cull senior players. I remember the outrage when Chapman and SJ left the club. Would people on here have been happy to trade other premiership heroes, such as Harry, for draft picks? I have my doubts.

St Kilda is an example of attempting that, and it didn't work out for the best.

You don't have to cull senior players at all.
No need to cut Chapman or SJ. Was dumb.
As they gradually retire you develop kids in their place.
It's what we did last time. People will disagree with me on Ablett, Hocking etc but I don't think last time we cut anyone before their time. Did it gradually.
I think it was the right time for Riccardi and Graham to go.
We didn't get rid of everyone at once or fill up all the holes with trades.
We were just patient. And not even really patient. Just a few years.

 

[feelinfeline]

You don't have to cull senior players at all.
No need to cut Chapman or SJ. Was dumb.
As they gradually retire you develop kids in their place.
It's what we did last time. People will disagree with me on Ablett, Hocking etc but I don't think last time we cut anyone before their time. Did it gradually.
I think it was the right time for Riccardi and Graham to go.
We didn't get rid of everyone at once or fill up all the holes with trades.
We were just patient. And not even really patient. Just a few years.

Yeah, well, you might be right. It might have worked and it might not have.

We will never know.

 

[Partridge]

The difference between Scott's time and the start of Bomber's time is that we were coming off a period of great success and still had several multiple premiership players.

To rebuild, you need to cull senior players. I remember the outrage when Chapman and SJ left the club. Would people on here have been happy to trade other premiership heroes, such as Harry, for draft picks? I have my doubts.

St Kilda is an example of attempting that, and it didn't work out for the best.

Not necessarily. It depends on the player. All players need to be phased out eventually. And really who cares what people on here think.

I'll give you a recent real world example. Brad Sewell

Brad Sewell

Age

41

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

. 2014 Qualifying Final. Here's a decorated player, who had played in two premierships, a Best and fairest winner (unlike say Bartel or Kelly for us), and after that game - which they won - he got dropped. Forever. No sentiment at all. They won the flag that year and did it again the next. The needs of the team and club were greater.

The outrage about Chapman and SJ was more they still had good footy left in them (and each did, one season each). But of many things I criticise the club for, making tough calls on veterans isn't one of them. More clubs should do it.

 

[Partridge]

Yep, and there are all the other examples of it not working at other clubs.

Which is fine, but on the flipside, give me one example where the core of a team has come from traded-in players. I can't think of one.

 

[Spazz Cat]

It's nearly worked for us, even though I believe our core are almost entirely drafted players.
Hence why we continued to bring them in while the core of Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins, Danger were in their prime.

Our core (Except Danger) is from the draft. Duncan and Guthrie are from way back before we started all this stuff, and Menegola and Stewart are master strokes by Wells.
(Imagine what he could of done with more quality picks)
I would've said it's nearly worked for us. But after the sadness and anger of Sat night went away it was pretty easy to see we weren't on the same level and there's no point trying to blame anyone. They were too good.
First half was brilliant, but we're not good enough to match it with them. Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

, Higgins etc or not.
But it was good enough to get where we got. Which was good. Not gonna say it wasn't.

 

[Partridge]

So you know for certain this would have happened? Amazing clairvoyant powers!

They could also have been like St Kilda, Melbourne, Carlton and even Richmond for many years - stuck on eternal rebuilding.

St Kilda are now on their third coach since Lyon and have had their first good year since 2011.

It's no more certain than knowing for a fact that focusing on the draft will fail.

 

[Partridge]

Have mentioned before that our ‘close but no cigar’ seasons of last 9 years or so have seduced the club into believing the myth of always being in contention. Maybe our ability to drag ourselves into finals over that long period has caused more harm than good. This year is no different. Probably worse, as we made a grand final. We almost tasted the carrot.
Hindsight is 20 /20 vision and, as others have pointed out, rebuilding these days is a fraught process.
Scott and co will stay, but I can’t see him at this stage of his career presiding over a drastic rebuild or game plan reboot. (We might be surprised, but I doubt it)
Club admin are the same.
They are just looking at financials and have a morbid fear of a couple of seasons down the lower rungs of the ladder and the perceived effects on the bottom line, which insults the intelligence of supporters.
The result will be a bit of backslapping, some tweaking, wallpapering and off chasing the mirage for another season..
Port’s motto is ’We exist to win premierships’
Ours should be ‘We exist to be there or therabouts’

If they go after Higgins we know for certain there's no change. They'll be getting a 33 year old to replace a 36 year old. It's nuts.

The motto should also include "We exist to provide a retirement fund for ex-Geelong falcons. Performance guarantees not required."

 

[Spazz Cat]

I can see your point, but if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

'A couple more good ones around Parfitt's age'. Yeah, that'd be nice, but there's no magical formula of falling just enough to get the good picks and then bouncing back up again.

Everyone could and should be doing it. But they are either not patient and want to give supporters hope now to get memberships or for some weird reason they just gut the joint and want to start all over again.
I agree some of the interstate sides can't do it like that cause they can't hold on to kids.

 

[Footy Smarts]

To be honest I'm less angry and upset about that loss than I thought I'd be. We turned up, we played really well and were beaten by an exceptional team with one of the best individual GF performances of recent times. If Martin doesn't play an unbelievable match dragging them back into it at the key moment we probably win and if they're not a team full of belief from winning 2 recent flags we probably win. Yes you can always look at moments and find things we could've done better and there's no doubt that when the game needed to be won they had more confidence and belief which is the difference between having won recent GFs and having lost a lot of recent finals. But ultimately we pushed an extremely good team to the brink, had them on them on the ropes and when it mattered they were good enough to drag themselves back into it by playing some truly unbelievable footy. Sometimes you just lose to a better team on the night.