Geelong sending players for surgery early and impacting GWS finals chances

[Demonic Ascent]

I agree, but there's still an integrity issue that occurs every year that nobody talks about.

The impact varies, but if you potted West Coast for not putting an extra behind the ball because of integrity, than this is no different.

It also likely gives Geelong a better chance to get an earlier draft pick.

Why is tanking only an issue for the struggling bottom place sides, but not an issue if a mid table side throws their last games?

You're 100% correct but the AFL won't and can't do anything about it. I don't have an issue with what the Cats are doing, I have an issue with the hypocrisy of the AFL/media calling integrity into question when other teams in different circumstances do similar.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

If the Geelong Football Club determines that some players are injured and won’t play, then that’s fine.
If the Geelong Football Club considers it is beneficial to their interests to have players undergo surgery now, then that’s fine.
Geelong owe no one else anything. If all this suits the interests of the Geelong Football Club, then so be it.

But if teams further down the ladder do the same they'd be called out for tanking. What if instead of sending players for early surgery now, a team like Hawthorn for example did it after round 16?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Crows fans are really looking very small pathetic at the moment. They need to move on. Human error happens all the time. If they have played better earlier in the match, they would have been good enough to have one accounting for human error. Their whingeing and complaining is embarrassing. It’s hilarious that they’re up in arms because they may have possibly scraped into eighth. All the hallmarks of a club that have not been relevant for a quarter of a century.

Garbage, the Crows supporters have every right to be filthy when they were effectively ruled out of the finals because of umpiring and AFL incompetence.

 

[iameviljez]

Garbage, the Crows supporters have every right to be filthy when they were effectively ruled out of the finals because of umpiring and AFL incompetence.

I’ll swap it for a Leigh Colbert mark, a Libba goal, and North remembering how to kick.

 

[Checksider]

Move over North, West Coast and Hawthorn - Harley Reid is coming home.

Cats are about to trade Phoenix Foster to North for Ben McKay and pick 1.

 

[Shadow89]

If you read my first post, I make it pretty clear this isn't about Geelong - it's just this year's example. I'm in no way having a go at Geelong, teams have been doing it for years and will continue to do so. They're doing the right thing by themselves. No need to get so defensive.

My question was more so around whether it was fair to other teams and whether it impacts the integrity of the comp.

It'd be easier to accept that premise, if every second post of yours in this thread wasn't geared at stating we're doing something untoward.

My response was to simply point out that using us as a case study, doesn't really work when basically all that aren't playing are already injured anyway.

If instead all of the aforementioned players were not injured/suspended, that would be an entirely different story - and I'd be more than happy to have this debate. As it stands though, the result of this game would be much the same, except for a 50% Cameron playing - against a close to full strength Dogs side.

 

[Lsta062]

1. It is not Geelong's responsibility to give GWS a chance to make finals. That's GWS' responsibility.
2. Geelong's interest lies in their players recovering from any issues as soon as possible. If they want to send players to surgery early, then that's up to them.
3. Western Bulldogs are by no means guaranteed to win this week despite the outs. They just lost to West Coast at home and haven't won at KP in many years.

 

[Checksider]

If we did this then McClure, Wilson, Cornes and Whateley would be screaming for draft sanctions.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

They have themselves to blame somehow dropped a game to WCE earlier in the year

 

[LukeParkerno1]

People also are forgetting this is the same Dogs side that made a 18th side look good last week…

 

[The Hobo]

They have themselves to blame somehow dropped a game to WCE earlier in the year

Completely irrelevant...

 

[The Hobo]

If we did this then McClure, Wilson, Cornes and Whateley would be screaming for draft sanctions.

That's part of my point, it seems ok for teams midtable to do it. Cats could finish as high as 9th or as low as 13th based on if they win or not.

Ppl only seem to care if resting players gets you pick 1...

 

[Footy Smarts]

That's part of my point, it seems ok for teams midtable to do it. Cats could finish as high as 9th or as low as 13th based on if they win or not.

Ppl only seem to care if resting players gets you pick 1...

The difference between getting pick 1 and pick 5 is way bigger than the difference between pick 6 and 10.

And it's clear this is a team that tried their hardest for 22 games to make finals carrying a stack of injuries. If we cared about draft picks we could've put the cue in the rack mid season and got pick 4 but we prefer to try to win.

If there is any paper trail indicating draft picks came into this decision or that losing would have benefits then throw the book at Geelong. But there's no evidence at the moment we're trying to do anything other than win without compromising our chances to be the best we can be next year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Completely irrelevant...

Completely relevant. Don’t put yourselves in a position relying on other teams. Pretty simple

 

[JackFlash]

It's a sound and just decision. These players have been playing as the walking wounded for weeks and they can't make the 8, It makes perfect sense, GWS just has to win and they're in. If you have to rely on other results to make the finals something has gone wrong with your season. Geelong are simply looking toward 2024 and have the chance to prepare early, they could give the entire list 2 months off and return Monday, November 6th to commence pre season injury free and well.

 

[WillHayward]

Under the current agreement with the Players Association the players aren't required to head back to training until November anyway so really not sure a one week "early surgery" makes any difference at all. Just means more holiday time for players over the next 10 weeks.

Players now get a bye and far shorter pre seasons.

So the "early surgery" excuse is yet another player concession that hurts the product.

Just means more s**t games.

 

[doppleganger]

Where is the OP outrage at Collingwood.

Pies beat Port at AO to go 3 games and % clear of 3rd.

Then we stop playing our best three players in N.Daicos, Moore and DeGoey - and cough up games all over the shop as we cruise to September.

Means teams like Brisbane get gifted a W and a potential home final over Port.

 

[Corkintheocean]

According to the main board this week, we may as well just pack the whole thing in, shutter the doors and do something else because the league is systematically unfair.

It's was a sporting code created for leisurely entertainment, not as an elaborate attempt to prove Marxist theory ffs!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I agree, but there's still an integrity issue that occurs every year that nobody talks about.

The impact varies, but if you potted West Coast for not putting an extra behind the ball because of integrity, than this is no different.

It also likely gives Geelong a better chance to get an earlier draft pick.

Why is tanking only an issue for the struggling bottom place sides, but not an issue if a mid table side throws their last games?

They aren’t going in to have surgery for “fun” mate. They are having surgery because they have been carrying significant injuries that were not at a risk of getting worse with play.

Now that their is no chance of finals, those players have absolute no reason to play on with limitations and pain as it is pointless for them.

How the integrity of the game apparently is in question because a player no longer plays through pain and limitations and opts for necessary surgery with nothing to play for is a bit of a silly argument.

 

[iameviljez]

But if teams further down the ladder do the same they'd be called out for tanking. What if instead of sending players for early surgery now, a team like Hawthorn for example did it after round 16?

Largely because there is a difference between not trying everything you can to win, and trying everything you can to lose.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Clubs should be able to manage their players however they want. Rest then before finals, send them for surgery early, drop half their team who cares.

Each club is responsible for winning enough games and shouldn’t be focused on what other clubs are doing. Scrap the pre finals bye, allow clubs to select teams as they see best suits them and get on with it.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Rules for some teams (cough Sydney Geelong Collingwood + the draft cheat teams Norf GCS cough)




_______________________________________




Rules for others

 

[Osho]

Geelong are fully within their rights to look after the long term health of their players. They are already plotting for 2024. Would you want the AFL sitting in on clubs' team selection meetings? Absolute *ing ROAR! Though I'm sure this has crossed AFL minds!

Vicissitides. You can't stop them no matter how hard you try fckn with this and meddlin with that. Just ask Job. Or Leopold Bloom. Or Betty Cuthbert.

GWS just need to win. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Seeds]

Teams have always done this, sent players in for surgery early when they realise their season is over. So this is not a dig at Geelong specifically, they're just the example for this season.

Geelong have done it this week, and there's a direct impact on GWS. The Dogs are likely to win now, and can potentially win by a decent margin, thereby boosting their %.

GWS could miss finals on Geelongs decision.

All this talk of integrity of the competition and attention on West Coast, and even the Crows missing finals due to the goal umpiring decision is all fair, but why isn't this getting brought up?

Everyone used to kick and scream when teams rested players before finals, so much so that they brought in a bye. But again, this issue doesn't get talked about.

There is no way Geelong send all those blokes in for surgery if they were in finals.

One could even argue retiring players at home a round early (Cotchin & Riewoldt) would have similar issues - though this one is a little blurry.

I can't help but think that if Collingwood were in GWS position, there would be a lot more noise about it.

You want to force injured players to keep playing?

 

[The Hobo]

They aren’t going in to have surgery for “fun” mate. They are having surgery because they have been carrying significant injuries that were not at a risk of getting worse with play.

Now that their is no chance of finals, those players have absolute no reason to play on with limitations and pain as it is pointless for them.

How the integrity of the game apparently is in question because a player no longer plays through pain and limitations and opts for necessary surgery with nothing to play for is a bit of a silly argument.

I never suggested they were having surgery for fun, nor that they weren't injured. I am suggesting that players would have played this week if finals was on the card. Again, not talking specifically Geelong, it's just an example of what happens every season. Players play through injury all season.

One could argue West Coast have been no chance for finals for quite some time now. They could have sent Oscar Allan away for shoulder surgery as he has been carrying that injury for weeks. But then the tanking talks would begin.