Nicho50
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- Apr 20, 2022
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I am not disagreeing with that I am just saying any team that has played fast this year has pretty much beaten Geelong and in fact my own side also is in that same boat.
Geelong sending players for surgery early and impacting GWS finals chances
- Thread starter The Hobo
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Rule of thumb is generally “ if playing them won’t make the injury worse, there is potential to play”.
Inject or drug them up and play through it… if a team wants to roll the dice and play someone who is on cortisone injections in his shoulder and can hardly lift it… what supposed advantage is geelong getting from this?? We are the ones disadvantaged no matter how you look at the situation. injured players requiring surgery are rarely going to be tearing up games.
The side carrying them is the one losing out.
Agree entirely with OP, Geelong should be fined and stripped of draft picks.Teams have always done this, sent players in for surgery early when they realise their season is over. So this is not a dig at Geelong specifically, they're just the example for this season.
Geelong have done it this week, and there's a direct impact on GWS. The Dogs are likely to win now, and can potentially win by a decent margin, thereby boosting their %.
GWS could miss finals on Geelongs decision.
All this talk of integrity of the competition and attention on West Coast, and even the Crows missing finals due to the goal umpiring decision is all fair, but why isn't this getting brought up?
Everyone used to kick and scream when teams rested players before finals, so much so that they brought in a bye. But again, this issue doesn't get talked about.
There is no way Geelong send all those blokes in for surgery if they were in finals.
One could even argue retiring players at home a round early (Cotchin & Riewoldt) would have similar issues - though this one is a little blurry.
I can't help but think that if Collingwood were in GWS position, there would be a lot more noise about it.
EDIT:
Example below of where there's noise around the Kangaroos not playing their strongest team, but no noise around other teams resting/sending players for surgery early.
'Why would they want to win?' Footy Classified panel's suspicious reaction to North gun's injury
Luke Davies-Uniacke is set to miss the Kangaroos final round against Gold Coast with a toe injury. The Footy Classified panel believes it is…www.theroar.com.au
True, I'm just trying to find out what the OP would propose to change this.
There's not many logical black and white rules I can come up with.
"All players selected when finals were a mathematical possibility must continue playing until the last round, regardless of injury status - unless omitted" Very dicey on player welfare and ludicrous from every standpoint.
"No surgeries until the completion of round 24" - nope the solutions are only going to get more and more ridiculous.
Sassermon
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I just don't think the fact that teams are playing weaker sides at the end of the season is an integrity thing. It's the element of attrition that makes getting to that last game of the year and winning it such an achievement. Teams will have key players injured, they will have older or injury prone players being rested to make sure they can get up for finals, they will be blooding youngsters to get a few games into them. It's all part of this time of the year.
If you were lucky enough to play a cellar dweller twice during the year, if you had a whole bunch of players injured in freak incidents, if you had a flu run through your club before a do or die game, if you play a team that can't make finals so they're sending some injured peeps off for repair, its all part of the variable nature of this competition.
Don't disagree. But for me, and most tellingly, it looked like guys like Holmes, Stengle, Close etc. were all a step off most of the year too.
Smith was finished at the end of the year, and Tuohy is a part time VFL/depth player if he wants to play on for an extra year.
These guys were always on the precipice last year.
Then the injuries on top of an extra year, just completely cooked some of them. Danger was going great from Rounds 5-8, and then copped injuries off an on constantly for the next 15 weeks. Rohan never got going and was a shadow of himself last year. Jez was Jekkyl and Hyde this year in the first/second half of the season respectively. Hawk had an interrupted pre-season. So did Duncan. Stewart got injured early, J. Henry kept injuring his foot. SDK got his face smashed and looked like Batman.
Was just a disaster year, and one where we were honestly just pushing s**t up hill the majority of it. Everything went right last year, and everything went wrong this year. Can't afford injury to your depth as well, when you have so many oldies playing as well.
Having a clean out will be good for us, and I am genuinely excited to see the next 'wave', as soon as this weekend! Definitely time for a few of the oldies to call it a day.
so you are saying Geelong should base their selection criteria on another team's (GWS) chances at a final ??? , or based on some other imaginary secnario that suits your narrative? Seriously? GWS had their chance ( and stil do when they samck blues on weekend) to cement their spot in the 8.Teams have always done this, sent players in for surgery early when they realise their season is over. So this is not a dig at Geelong specifically, they're just the example for this season.
Geelong have done it this week, and there's a direct impact on GWS. The Dogs are likely to win now, and can potentially win by a decent margin, thereby boosting their %.
GWS could miss finals on Geelongs decision.
All this talk of integrity of the competition and attention on West Coast, and even the Crows missing finals due to the goal umpiring decision is all fair, but why isn't this getting brought up?
Everyone used to kick and scream when teams rested players before finals, so much so that they brought in a bye. But again, this issue doesn't get talked about.
There is no way Geelong send all those blokes in for surgery if they were in finals.
One could even argue retiring players at home a round early (Cotchin & Riewoldt) would have similar issues - though this one is a little blurry.
I can't help but think that if Collingwood were in GWS position, there would be a lot more noise about it.
EDIT:
Example below of where there's noise around the Kangaroos not playing their strongest team, but no noise around other teams resting/sending players for surgery early.
'Why would they want to win?' Footy Classified panel's suspicious reaction to North gun's injury
Luke Davies-Uniacke is set to miss the Kangaroos final round against Gold Coast with a toe injury. The Footy Classified panel believes it is…www.theroar.com.au
You were "robbed" by your innate inabaility to acheive a finals spot on your own merits - you were given 23 games to win adn u came up short - absurd to blame your poor outcome on another teams ..
The same could apply to players retiring and not playing the last game. Like Jack and Cotch how should the AFL punish the club involved then?
Same for the OP then if that's your response.
It’s not an excuse for anything.
Your team of all of them should be able to appreciate the idea that as a club who tries to win the comp every year, as soon as that becomes an impossibility, the attention turns to trying to win the next one. Best way to do it? Get everything under control as early as humanly possible
Imagine the 18 afl teams are in the Tour de France.
There are riders every year in the tour - a s**t load of them - who aren’t there to win or even compete in a stage.
That’s neither here nor there for the sake of the analogy.
Let’s say 12 riders start the tour trying to win and they throw everything into it. Pick the stages where they go hard, pick the stages where they try and survive etc etc. they have crashes, falls, get violently ill and eventually they get to the final time trial and their chances of finishing in the mix are gone. You would not begrudge any team in that situation the chance to be cautious, do their best without risking their tilt at the Vuelta Espana.
Meanwhile there’s two teams who entered the race with no goal whatsoever other than to just get some experience on a grand tour.
It’s gone even worse than they could have imagined. But the silver lining is that whoever finishes last gets a massive time bonus at the start of the next grand tour.
So these two teams play silly buggers in the final time trial, deliberately fall, have mechanical issues that don’t actually exist, and try and out s**t each other as a deliberate means of losing.
That’s the difference between tanking and what’s being spoken about here
There are riders every year in the tour - a s**t load of them - who aren’t there to win or even compete in a stage.
That’s neither here nor there for the sake of the analogy.
Let’s say 12 riders start the tour trying to win and they throw everything into it. Pick the stages where they go hard, pick the stages where they try and survive etc etc. they have crashes, falls, get violently ill and eventually they get to the final time trial and their chances of finishing in the mix are gone. You would not begrudge any team in that situation the chance to be cautious, do their best without risking their tilt at the Vuelta Espana.
Meanwhile there’s two teams who entered the race with no goal whatsoever other than to just get some experience on a grand tour.
It’s gone even worse than they could have imagined. But the silver lining is that whoever finishes last gets a massive time bonus at the start of the next grand tour.
So these two teams play silly buggers in the final time trial, deliberately fall, have mechanical issues that don’t actually exist, and try and out s**t each other as a deliberate means of losing.
That’s the difference between tanking and what’s being spoken about here
- Thread starter
- #166
My point exactly. If a team rested a whole team mid season, it wouldn't be accepted.
yeah, because there is zero reason to do that apart from throwing a game.
Whereas putting players in for surgery or resting players for finals is at least a reason.
You do know that players don’t just sit on the couch for ten weeks, right? And that you don’t just jump off the operating table and start lifting heavy weights?
Especially shoulder surgery.
Yep i do get that.
Doesn't change my view though.
There is still plenty of "* around" time for players over the next 12 weeks. I certainly dont buy they are 100% perfectly efficient robots all doing perfect rehab over the next 12 weeks.
I seriously doubt a week makes much difference. Some players will do rehab better than others.
Elmer_Judd
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Freo got into trouble several years ago for sending practically a reserves team to play Hawthorn in Tassie because they had a finals spot sewn up.
Surgery= repairing injury not playing to prevent further injury. Not playing last game of season because retiring with no injury = CBF, one would think CBF is not putting your best team on the ground. Could be seen as a form of tanking I would think
Oh no the course of elimination finals losers history will be changed forever
The Crows are 1-8 away from home.
That’s why you’re not playing finals.
And even if you were - you would lose week 1 anyway.
Onus is on teams to win to make finals.
Stop ******* stressing about what other teams are doing - GWS win and it’s out of the Dogs hands.
Teams that drop games to bottom 3 sides (I.e. the Dogs) need to rely on other results to make finals. Good teams do not need to rely on other results. If GWS is a good team, they will not need to rely on other results. Simple as that.
Stop ******* stressing about what other teams are doing - GWS win and it’s out of the Dogs hands.
Teams that drop games to bottom 3 sides (I.e. the Dogs) need to rely on other results to make finals. Good teams do not need to rely on other results. If GWS is a good team, they will not need to rely on other results. Simple as that.
Additionally, why should Geelong delay their players surgeries and recoveries for the sake of other teams?
What if Jez Cameron pops his shoulder for good? Hawkins hamstring fully goes?
On top of that, at what point is an injury “bad enough” to miss? Who decides that? Surely a 35 year old with a dodgy hammy in the last month can miss the final game of the year without people carrying on about “integrity”.
What if Jez Cameron pops his shoulder for good? Hawkins hamstring fully goes?
On top of that, at what point is an injury “bad enough” to miss? Who decides that? Surely a 35 year old with a dodgy hammy in the last month can miss the final game of the year without people carrying on about “integrity”.
