Geelong sending players for surgery early and impacting GWS finals chances

[The Hobo]

'Why would they want to win?' Footy Classified panel's suspicious reaction to North gun's injury

Luke Davies-Uniacke is set to miss the Kangaroos final round against Gold Coast with a toe injury. The Footy Classified panel believes it is…

www.theroar.com.au

Example right here of how teams in different positions get treated differently.

 

[STPer18]

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Lets not forget that had Sydney lost, Carlton would have been guaranteed a home final and would have little to play for this week, that also hurts GWS.

So that bloody goal umpire has screwed with other teams finals chances in many more ways.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Dogs will be missing a few too.
Bruce, Duryea, JJ, Macrae, possibly Libba.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Dogs will be missing a few too.
Bruce, Duryea, JJ, Macrae, possibly Libba.

Don’t forget they still have Bevo coaching them too

 

[The Hobo]

Never suggested he wasn't injured, but the Cats felt it was worth playing him over the next available when the season was alive.

 

[The Hobo]

Dogs will be missing a few too.
Bruce, Duryea, JJ, Macrae, possibly Libba.

Yes, but they are playing for a spot in their finals, not making a choice to send players in early.

 

[Sassermon]

I don't think tanking and sending players who need surgery to get surgery are the same thing. If they play throught the injury where possible, as long as there is a chance of finals then that's them going above and beyond for the greater good of the club. That's admirable but not mandatory and often we praise them for their guts. Of course clubs, as soon as they are out of contention, will start looking to next year to make sure their players have as much preseason in them as possible. Thats not tanking, thats player management. For the teams who are still in contention but barely, thats just the nature of this time of year. Its that whole, dont leave it in the hands of the judges/circumstances thing. If you don't put finals beyond a doubt by the last couple of rounds then you are at the mercy of many variables.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Yes, but they are playing for a spot in their finals, not making a choice to send players in early.

I'm just saying that it levels the playing field to a certain degree and doesn't just hand the Dogs a win, especially at GMHBA.

 

[blue harvest]

'Why would they want to win?' Footy Classified panel's suspicious reaction to North gun's injury

Luke Davies-Uniacke is set to miss the Kangaroos final round against Gold Coast with a toe injury. The Footy Classified panel believes it is…

www.theroar.com.au

Example right here of how teams in different positions get treated differently.

And rightly so.
A mid table team like the Cats don't have much to gain draft wise, so we can be sure that the injuries etc are legit.
But a bottom side has much more to gain draft wise so will cop a lot more scrutiny over whether it is legit or not.

As for the premise of the thread in that it is impacting the integrity of the competition and the Giants' finals chances - there is only one thing that impacts the Giants' finals chances and that is the Giants. If they win enough games they get in the 8.
A million different things happen in a season, stuff like this is just how the cookie crumbles.

 

[The Hobo]

I don't think tanking and sending players who need surgery to get surgery are the same thing. If they play throught the injury where possible, as long as there is a chance of finals then that's them going above and beyond for the greater good of the club. That's admirable but not mandatory and often we praise them for their guts. Of course clubs, as soon as they are out of contention, will start looking to next year to make sure their players have as much preseason in them as possible. Thats not tanking, thats player management. For the teams who are still in contention but barely, thats just the nature of this time of year. Its that whole, dont leave it in the hands of the judges/circumstances thing. If you don't put finals beyond a doubt by the last couple of rounds then you are at the mercy of many variables.

I'm not suggesting they're tanking - but I am saying that if the Roos or West Coast did the same thing, they would be accused of tanking. (LDU example above)

I am more so calling out the integrity of the comp though, where teams play weakened sides towards the end of the season, which impacts other teams and their position on the ladder. Yes, everyone is correct in saying that the team should have already secured their spot etc etc. - but every season there will be a few teams battling for a final spot in the 8. It greatly makes a difference to them if some of the teams have already checked out vs teams that are actively fighting for something.

It also benefits the team playing weakened sides as they gain a few spots on the draft ladder. All the focus is on pick 1 and pick 2, which is a big difference, but I'd argue the difference between pick 6 and pick 10 is also pretty significant depending on the draft year. I just don't understand how it's accepted if you're in the middle of the table, but not acceptable if you're at the bottom.

I don't know what the solution is, and I don't think forcing teams like Geelong to keep their players 'active' for the last round is the answer either. I think something needs to change with the fixturing to try and mitigate this - whether they fixture the last few rounds later to try reduce active teams playing dead teams, or some other way to try mitigate.

 

[The Hobo]

And rightly so.
A mid table team like the Cats don't have much to gain draft wise, so we can be sure that the injuries etc are legit.
But a bottom side has much more to gain draft wise so will cop a lot more scrutiny over whether it is legit or not.

Cats could finish as high as 9th or as low as 13th - that's a 4 pick swing in the first round. Pretty significant.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

'Why would they want to win?' Footy Classified panel's suspicious reaction to North gun's injury

Luke Davies-Uniacke is set to miss the Kangaroos final round against Gold Coast with a toe injury. The Footy Classified panel believes it is…

www.theroar.com.au

Example right here of how teams in different positions get treated differently.

Damien barret still thinks hawthorn is tanking when the roos are actually tanking

 

[OniAu]

Would you want Port playing your stars in a nothing match when they can get cleared up of their injuries by early season surgery?

 

[HeHateMe]

Teams have always done this, sent players in for surgery early when they realise their season is over.

This sounds like a 'form of tanking'

 

[MisterMarcus]

Out: “Duh huh Geelong’s old blokes are slow and cooked and past it!”

In: “WHY ARE GEELONG RIGGING THE FINALS BY LEAVING OUT ALL THEIR AWESOME EXPERIENCED TALENT?!?!”

 

[blue harvest]

Cats could finish as high as 9th or as low as 13th - that's a 4 pick swing in the first round. Pretty significant.

Could.
That's another example of how the cookie crumbles, Geelong don't know where they will finish. And that part of the draft there is normally no consensus on which player is better than the next few. It's safe to assume that the Cats' main motivation is player management.

Where as North will get pick 1 if they lose and this year there seems to be a clear consensus on the best player.
If there were 3 or 4 guns at the top of the draft that no one could split then I don't think there would be as much scrutiny on North/Eagles.

 

[Nicho50]

Regardless of injuries or not I would have backed the Dogs to beat Geelong anyway, finals on the line or not. Show some leg speed and Geelong can't keep up.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not suggesting they're tanking - but I am saying that if the Roos or West Coast did the same thing, they would be accused of tanking. (LDU example above)

I am more so calling out the integrity of the comp though, where teams play weakened sides towards the end of the season, which impacts other teams and their position on the ladder. Yes, everyone is correct in saying that the team should have already secured their spot etc etc. - but every season there will be a few teams battling for a final spot in the 8. It greatly makes a difference to them if some of the teams have already checked out vs teams that are actively fighting for something.

It also benefits the team playing weakened sides as they gain a few spots on the draft ladder. All the focus is on pick 1 and pick 2, which is a big difference, but I'd argue the difference between pick 6 and pick 10 is also pretty significant depending on the draft year. I just don't understand how it's accepted if you're in the middle of the table, but not acceptable if you're at the bottom.

I don't know what the solution is, and I don't think forcing teams like Geelong to keep their players 'active' for the last round is the answer either. I think something needs to change with the fixturing to try and mitigate this - whether they fixture the last few rounds later to try reduce active teams playing dead teams, or some other way to try mitigate.

What is your solution?

You can try to retroactively punish clubs when it is found out they have been playing people injured (e.g Cameron's surgery this week confirmed the worst kept secret in football: he's been a lame duck for 10 weeks). There's going to be so many grey areas though that it would be impossible to know where to draw the line.

If finals and top 4 were assured I have no doubt Dangerfield would've played 5 or 6 games less. Cameron around 8. It is dodgy that unless it's a torn muscle there can be wiggle room to roll out cooked players. But it's just what happens.

 

[Shadow89]

Regardless of injuries or not I would have backed the Dogs to beat Geelong anyway, finals on the line or not. Show some leg speed and Geelong can't keep up.

Given 10 of our Best 23 are either injured or have niggles, doesn't surprise me if they couldn't.

We weren't slow last year.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Never suggested he wasn't injured, but the Cats felt it was worth playing him over the next available when the season was alive.

I don’t think things are ever as black and white as you are suggesting.

Circumstances at all varying points of the season have driven selection and even dictated players going in or not for surgery depending if it’s optional.

If there is any integrity questions , it is probably more along the lines of teams being allowed to select injured players.

If your club is 10-0 and has a player in Cameron’s position who will be back for finals, they most likely send them in for surgery given the ladder luxury.

I don’t think these scenarios are ever straight forward.

 

[Nicho50]

Given 10 of our Best 23 are either injured or have niggles, doesn't surprise me if they couldn't.

We weren't slow last year.

I am talking about this year, regardless of injuries most games Geelong have lost this year sides have played at a very high pace which Geelong haven't been able to keep up with.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I am talking about this year, regardless of injuries most games Geelong have lost this year sides have played at a very high pace which Geelong haven't been able to keep up with.

Lol so simplistic I don’t even know where to begin. Very shallow ability to analyze right here

 

[Shadow89]

I am talking about this year, regardless of injuries most games Geelong have lost this year sides have played at a very high pace which Geelong haven't been able to keep up with.

Lack of preparation leads to lack of continuity leads to lack of enforcing game plan/running out games.

Barely anyone on our list has had a clean run this year - starting from pre-season.

Simply saying, that the lack of leg speed isn't just that 25-30 players have all become slow in the space of 6-12 months - and that there are other mitigating factors involved.

 

[Nicho50]

Lol so simplistic I don’t even know where to begin. Very shallow ability to analyze right here

Pretty much all season any team that has tried to play at a very fast paced style has defeated the Cats, but if you allow them to get the game on their terms they crush you like they did to Essendon.