Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[Mr Meow]

I might have been 1 year too early

At least you fessed up. 2025 is when I said a slide was much more likely. A bounce back in 2024 was written off but was always on the cards. 2023 was just a disaster.

This season, a handful of veterans have declined as expected but the 21-28 year olds are carrying us. However the retirements will still leave holes and that was always going to be the case.

 

[PhatBoy]

We don't have a boutique home ground we're allowed to train on that nobody else hardly plays on. Plus we don't have a Richmond man in the AFL to change the rules to suit our gamestyle like Hocking did, who then went back to Geelong incidently.

That you continue to make excuses for grown men who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for being unable to navigate their way around a patch of turf with some slightly different shaped ‘corners’ to the ones they’re used to at other ovals for 100 minutes every year or two, or that you make excuses for their even better paid coaches who seem unable to crack the code of putting out witches hats to match these dimensions is nothing short of stunning

 

[Seeds]

What's wrong with divorcing your wife? Is that a crime now?

Wowee on the double standards you are displaying in this thread.

Richmond can do whatever they want as long as it doesnt involve crimes. And even crimes are ok as long as it is "victimless" (even though its not).

Other clubs however must live up to much higher moral standards and enforce their own punishments seperate from the law.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You keep conflating team success with individual performance. Martin was also in the strongest performing finals side over those seasons. It worked both ways. You have this fantasy of him singlehandedly winning the flags rather than being the best performer in an extremely strong side.

In other words you are punishing players like Neale for having lesser performing team mates.

Ablett 2008 GF was better than in 2007, but in your eyes the 2007 game would be rated higher on account of his side winning. In fact Ablett's 2008 GF performance was better than any individual in 2007, where the TEAM smashed the opposition pillar to post (with about 12 starring performances).

Dusty’s prime(ish) seasons:

2016: AA team and B&F in a team that finished 13th

2017: Record breaking year won everything, Richmond Flag

2018: Richmond minor premiers, Dusty injured in prelim and we lost

2019: AA squad, Finals, MVP, NS and Richmond flag

2020: AA team, Finals MVP, NS and Richmond flag

2021: Dusty kidney injury, Richmond don’t make finals

2022: Dusty dad died and hamstring injury, Richmond lose EF

2023: Dusty AA squad, Richmond finished 13th

As you can see 2016 and 2023 he was elite even though Richmond were trash.

2018, 2021, 2022 we lost when he got injured/depressed

Rest of years when fully fit we won the flag.

That is the definition of carrying a team. You live in la la land if you think he’s a downhill skier.

 

[Cleansweep17]

At least you fessed up. 2025 is when I said a slide was much more likely. A bounce back in 2024 was written off but was always on the cards. 2023 was just a disaster.

This season, a handful of veterans have declined as expected but the 21-28 year olds are carrying us. However the retirements will still leave holes and that was always going to be the case.

Geelong 2022: premiers

2023: injury ridden finished 12th

2024: finals/top 4 finish with a better injury run so far

iJuRiEs ArE nOt aN eXcUe ThOuGh

 

[Cleansweep17]

You keep conflating team success with individual performance. Martin was also in the strongest performing finals side over those seasons. It worked both ways. You have this fantasy of him singlehandedly winning the flags rather than being the best performer in an extremely strong side.

In other words you are punishing players like Neale for having lesser performing team mates.

Ablett 2008 GF was better than in 2007, but in your eyes the 2007 game would be rated higher on account of his side winning. In fact Ablett's 2008 GF performance was better than any individual in 2007, where the TEAM smashed the opposition pillar to post (with about 12 starring performances).

Also Mr. Meow you are just trying to undersell Dustys achievements because GAJ couldn’t achieve them. GAJ was the polar opposite of Dusty in finals, just look at it.

07: played an ordinary GF against one of the worst GF teams ever. Geelong win the flag

08: GAJ played a great GF, Geelong lost

09: played an average GF, Geelong won

10: played a great finals series, Geelong don’t even make the GF

11: Gary leaves, Geelong won

It’s actually gross. GAJ is just very much a H&A King and will be remembered mostly for his 08 GF loss. In fact based on those results it’s actually a curse for Geelong if he plays well in finals. Tragic.

Players like Dusty and Hodge are better finals players because they help their team actually win the game. Ultimately although he played some good finals, GAJ did not contribute nearly as much as them in his flag years.

 

[Wojcinski]

We don't have a boutique home ground we're allowed to train on that nobody else hardly plays on. Plus we don't have a Richmond man in the AFL to change the rules to suit our gamestyle like Hocking did, who then went back to Geelong incidently.

sounds like a you problem for giving your ground up (due to being poor) and not helping Gale write a resume (because he can't write good)

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Also Mr. Meow you are just trying to undersell Dustys achievements because GAJ couldn’t achieve them. GAJ was the polar opposite of Dusty in finals, just look at it.

07: played an ordinary GF against one of the worst GF teams ever. Geelong win the flag

08: GAJ played a great GF, Geelong lost

09: played an average GF, Geelong won

10: played a great finals series, Geelong don’t even make the GF

11: Gary leaves, Geelong won

It’s actually gross. GAJ is just very much a H&A King and will be remembered mostly for his 08 GF loss. In fact based on those results it’s actually a curse for Geelong if he plays well in finals. Tragic.

Players like Dusty and Hodge are better finals players because they help their team actually win the game. Ultimately although he played some good finals, GAJ did not contribute nearly as much as them in his flag years.

Old reverse indicator Ablett a finals superstar according to deluded Cats fans.

Superstar easy kick chaser more like it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Old reverse indicator Ablett a finals superstar according to deluded Cats fans.

Superstar easy kick chaser more like it.

It’s an Ablett thing. They usually play their best finals in losses for some reason. Richmond fans don’t know what that’s like, must be hard hence their ingenious coping mechanisms.

 

[PhatBoy]

It’s an Ablett thing. They usually play their best finals in losses for some reason. Richmond fans don’t know what that’s like, must be hard hence their ingenious coping mechanisms.

Strange thing to say about someone whose best finals were wins.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Strange thing to say about someone whose best finals were wins.

GAS 89 GF was his best, Geelong lost

GAJ 08 GF was his best, Geelong lost

Comprende?

 

[PhatBoy]

GAS 89 GF was his best, Geelong lost

GAJ 08 GF was his best, Geelong lost

Comprende?

Not really. Gary played better finals in the 07 and 09 preliminary finals for starters. Having watched so much football from that era I’m amazed you’ve forgotten….

 

[Cleansweep17]

sounds like a you problem for giving your ground up (due to being poor) and not helping Gale write a resume (because he can't write good)

Imagine we got home games at punt road oval and demand finals to be played there. That’s what you guys are doing. It’s embarrassing, Dan Hannebery literally said not long ago that he would hate to play and watch games there.

You also just spent $142m to add 4,000 seats. Like wtf is that? Are they made of solid gold?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Not really. Gary played better finals in the 07 and 09 preliminary finals for starters. Having watched so much football from that era I’m amazed you’ve forgotten….

Nah 34 and 2 beats 31 and 2

09 is the same but it was just in a prelim compared to a GF.

Try again.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nah 34 and 2 beats 31 and 2

09 is the same but it was just in a prelim compared to a GF.

Try again.

Tell the world you didn’t watch those games without telling the world you didn’t watch those games

 

[PhatBoy]

**** this is boring.

‘Blah blah blah this incredible player played a shit tonne of incredible great games home and away and in finals and won heaps of them and lost a couple blah blah blah let’s do it all again.’

 

[Mr Meow]

Also Mr. Meow you are just trying to undersell Dustys achievements because GAJ couldn’t achieve them. GAJ was the polar opposite of Dusty in finals, just look at it.

07: played an ordinary GF against one of the worst GF teams ever. Geelong win the flag

08: GAJ played a great GF, Geelong lost

09: played an average GF, Geelong won

10: played a great finals series, Geelong don’t even make the GF

11: Gary leaves, Geelong won

It’s actually gross. GAJ is just very much a H&A King and will be remembered mostly for his 08 GF loss. In fact based on those results it’s actually a curse for Geelong if he plays well in finals. Tragic.

Players like Dusty and Hodge are better finals players because they help their team actually win the game. Ultimately although he played some good finals, GAJ did not contribute nearly as much as them in his flag years.

Nope, again you are just getting angry for no reason at me refusing to throw Neale under the bus for him playing very well in a losing prelim where his team mates were poor.

Any time you use weird, emotional language I am going to bold it and tell you to do better. It comes across as having a tantrum. I switch off around the rest of your post when I see this nonsense, so it might be a good idea to leave it out.

Players can be superb or average when their team is the dominant force, or superb or average when their team is bested. It isn't surprising to me that this nuance completely escapes you. For some odd reason you are acting as if only playing well when your side wins finals (this is the case for Dusty) puts him ahead of players who have been exceptional in finals of all circumstances (including losses).

For me it makes perfectly logical sense to not automatically downgrade a player's season because he played 2 finals compared to player x playing 4 finals, or in the case of Bont/Daicos last year one player got to play 2 knockout finals (and did so to a high level), while one did not get to play finals at all. Once you offer the Bontempelli vs Daicos comparison based on this, we will understand how far you will bend logic to suit your bias. Or if you simply have double standards.

 

[Mr Meow]

Tell the world you didn’t watch those games without telling the world you didn’t watch those games

He knows as much about Ablett's performances in any games prior to 2014 as I do about Dick Reynolds in his prime.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Nope, again you are just getting angry for no reason at me refusing to throw Neale under the bus for him playing very well in a losing prelim where his team mates were poor.

Any time you use weird, emotional language I am going to bold it and tell you to do better. It comes across as having a tantrum. I switch off around the rest of your post when I see this nonsense, so it might be a good idea to leave it out.

Players can be superb or average when their team is the dominant force, or superb or average when their team is bested. It isn't surprising to me that this nuance completely escapes you. For some odd reason you are acting as if only playing well when your side wins finals (this is the case for Dusty) puts him ahead of players who have been exceptional in finals of all circumstances (including losses).

For me it makes perfectly logical sense to not automatically downgrade a player's season because he played 2 finals compared to player x playing 4 finals, or in the case of Bont/Daicos last year one player got to play 2 knockout finals (and did so to a high level), while one did not get to play finals at all. Once you offer the Bontempelli vs Daicos comparison based on this, we will understand how far you will bend logic to suit your bias. Or if you simply have double standards.

Yes, you seem not to be sure how to grade players. Making hypothetical games in your head seems to be the go to atm. It’s strange but intriguing.

Who will be remembered as better finals players Dusty and Hodge or GAJ, Bont, Neale?

 

[Cleansweep17]

He knows as much about Ablett's performances in any games prior to 2014 as I do about Dick Reynolds in his prime.

Did you go to those GFs and prelims?

 

[Mr Meow]

Dusty’s prime(ish) seasons:

2016: AA team and B&F in a team that finished 13th

2017: Record breaking year won everything, Richmond Flag

2018: Richmond minor premiers, Dusty injured in prelim and we lost

2019: AA squad, Finals, MVP, NS and Richmond flag

2020: AA team, Finals MVP, NS and Richmond flag

2021: Dusty kidney injury, Richmond don’t make finals

2022: Dusty dad died and hamstring injury, Richmond lose EF

2023: Dusty AA squad, Richmond finished 13th

As you can see 2016 and 2023 he was elite even though Richmond were trash.

2018, 2021, 2022 we lost when he got injured/depressed

Rest of years when fully fit we won the flag.

That is the definition of carrying a team. You live in la la land if you think he’s a downhill skier.

These are his prime seasons and I've acknowledged the excuses for why he's been poor in his 30s. He was decent-good 2011-2015. A very good career with a short peak when his side were a dynasty force. The other modern greats played to a higher level in the other circumstances (i.e when not part of an active repeat flag winning run).

 

[Cleansweep17]

Tell the world you didn’t watch those games without telling the world you didn’t watch those games

The world knows, hence why they don’t talk about them. GAJ the “great finals player” yeah sure I hear that everyday

 

[Mr Meow]

Yes, you seem not to be sure how to grade players. Making hypothetical games in your head seems to be the go to atm. It’s strange but intriguing.

Who will be remembered as better finals players Dusty and Hodge or GAJ, Bont, Neale?

It's not about making guesses, it's about using the games that they played. Neale had an outstanding 17 game H&A season (carrying the fragile Lions, let's be honest), was okay in a QF they romped in and then outstanding in a losing prelim. So yes his season standard was higher than Martin's, but Martin was in a better knockout finals team and was outstanding for those last 3 weeks. It doesn't mean he bridged the gap before that. And it doesn't mean Neale gets marked down for doing all he could in a prelim but his team mates getting bullied by Geelong.

 

[Cleansweep17]

These are his prime seasons and I've acknowledged the excuses for why he's been poor in his 30s. He was decent-good 2011-2015. A very good career with a short peak when his side were a dynasty force. The other modern greats played to a higher level in the other circumstances (i.e when not part of an active repeat flag winning run).

He got a rising start nom and 2x under 22 selections.

He was an elite kid as well.

I also just gave you 2 examples of him getting an AA team/squad when our team finished 13th. Like what else do you want?

And again you think playing well is more impressive when you are losing. It’s such backwards thinking. Every other fan base in the world doesn’t do this. If you give this opinion to Americans or Europeans they’d laugh at you like you have two heads.

 

[Mr Meow]

The world knows, hence why they don’t talk about them. GAJ the “great finals player” yeah sure I hear that everyday

Yes which is why Ablett got 80% of the best midfielder votes and Martin got 2% in the recent poll. 40x as many people have Ablett well above, which is the whole reason you keep dragging these topics back up furiously.

We've already gone through Ablett's peak finals catalogue before, where he was universally recognised as THE best finals performer of the 2007-2010 period. While also being the best in H&A.

Martin achieved this in 2017. In 2018 he didn't achieve either. In 2019 and 2020 he was best finals player. So as a 4 year period it doesn't come close to Ablett's 2007-2010. And boy does that annoy you, despite you not even watching footy back then.