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At least you fessed up. 2025 is when I said a slide was much more likely. A bounce back in 2024 was written off but was always on the cards. 2023 was just a disaster.I might have been 1 year too early
We don't have a boutique home ground we're allowed to train on that nobody else hardly plays on. Plus we don't have a Richmond man in the AFL to change the rules to suit our gamestyle like Hocking did, who then went back to Geelong incidently.
Wowee on the double standards you are displaying in this thread.What's wrong with divorcing your wife? Is that a crime now?
You keep conflating team success with individual performance. Martin was also in the strongest performing finals side over those seasons. It worked both ways. You have this fantasy of him singlehandedly winning the flags rather than being the best performer in an extremely strong side.
In other words you are punishing players like Neale for having lesser performing team mates.
Ablett 2008 GF was better than in 2007, but in your eyes the 2007 game would be rated higher on account of his side winning. In fact Ablett's 2008 GF performance was better than any individual in 2007, where the TEAM smashed the opposition pillar to post (with about 12 starring performances).
At least you fessed up. 2025 is when I said a slide was much more likely. A bounce back in 2024 was written off but was always on the cards. 2023 was just a disaster.
This season, a handful of veterans have declined as expected but the 21-28 year olds are carrying us. However the retirements will still leave holes and that was always going to be the case.
You keep conflating team success with individual performance. Martin was also in the strongest performing finals side over those seasons. It worked both ways. You have this fantasy of him singlehandedly winning the flags rather than being the best performer in an extremely strong side.
In other words you are punishing players like Neale for having lesser performing team mates.
Ablett 2008 GF was better than in 2007, but in your eyes the 2007 game would be rated higher on account of his side winning. In fact Ablett's 2008 GF performance was better than any individual in 2007, where the TEAM smashed the opposition pillar to post (with about 12 starring performances).
sounds like a you problem for giving your ground up (due to being poor) and not helping Gale write a resume (because he can't write good)We don't have a boutique home ground we're allowed to train on that nobody else hardly plays on. Plus we don't have a Richmond man in the AFL to change the rules to suit our gamestyle like Hocking did, who then went back to Geelong incidently.
Also Mr. Meow you are just trying to undersell Dustys achievements because GAJ couldn’t achieve them. GAJ was the polar opposite of Dusty in finals, just look at it.
07: played an ordinary GF against one of the worst GF teams ever. Geelong win the flag
08: GAJ played a great GF, Geelong lost
09: played an average GF, Geelong won
10: played a great finals series, Geelong don’t even make the GF
11: Gary leaves, Geelong won
It’s actually gross. GAJ is just very much a H&A King and will be remembered mostly for his 08 GF loss. In fact based on those results it’s actually a curse for Geelong if he plays well in finals. Tragic.
Players like Dusty and Hodge are better finals players because they help their team actually win the game. Ultimately although he played some good finals, GAJ did not contribute nearly as much as them in his flag years.
Old reverse indicator Ablett a finals superstar according to deluded Cats fans.
Superstar easy kick chaser more like it.
It’s an Ablett thing. They usually play their best finals in losses for some reason. Richmond fans don’t know what that’s like, must be hard hence their ingenious coping mechanisms.
Strange thing to say about someone whose best finals were wins.
GAS 89 GF was his best, Geelong lost
GAJ 08 GF was his best, Geelong lost
Comprende?
sounds like a you problem for giving your ground up (due to being poor) and not helping Gale write a resume (because he can't write good)
Not really. Gary played better finals in the 07 and 09 preliminary finals for starters. Having watched so much football from that era I’m amazed you’ve forgotten….
Nah 34 and 2 beats 31 and 2
09 is the same but it was just in a prelim compared to a GF.
Try again.
Nope, again you are just getting angry for no reason at me refusing to throw Neale under the bus for him playing very well in a losing prelim where his team mates were poor.Also Mr. Meow you are just trying to undersell Dustys achievements because GAJ couldn’t achieve them. GAJ was the polar opposite of Dusty in finals, just look at it.
07: played an ordinary GF against one of the worst GF teams ever. Geelong win the flag
08: GAJ played a great GF, Geelong lost
09: played an average GF, Geelong won
10: played a great finals series, Geelong don’t even make the GF
11: Gary leaves, Geelong won
It’s actually gross. GAJ is just very much a H&A King and will be remembered mostly for his 08 GF loss. In fact based on those results it’s actually a curse for Geelong if he plays well in finals. Tragic.
Players like Dusty and Hodge are better finals players because they help their team actually win the game. Ultimately although he played some good finals, GAJ did not contribute nearly as much as them in his flag years.
He knows as much about Ablett's performances in any games prior to 2014 as I do about Dick Reynolds in his prime.Tell the world you didn’t watch those games without telling the world you didn’t watch those games
Nope, again you are just getting angry for no reason at me refusing to throw Neale under the bus for him playing very well in a losing prelim where his team mates were poor.
Any time you use weird, emotional language I am going to bold it and tell you to do better. It comes across as having a tantrum. I switch off around the rest of your post when I see this nonsense, so it might be a good idea to leave it out.
Players can be superb or average when their team is the dominant force, or superb or average when their team is bested. It isn't surprising to me that this nuance completely escapes you. For some odd reason you are acting as if only playing well when your side wins finals (this is the case for Dusty) puts him ahead of players who have been exceptional in finals of all circumstances (including losses).
For me it makes perfectly logical sense to not automatically downgrade a player's season because he played 2 finals compared to player x playing 4 finals, or in the case of Bont/Daicos last year one player got to play 2 knockout finals (and did so to a high level), while one did not get to play finals at all. Once you offer the Bontempelli vs Daicos comparison based on this, we will understand how far you will bend logic to suit your bias. Or if you simply have double standards.
He knows as much about Ablett's performances in any games prior to 2014 as I do about Dick Reynolds in his prime.
These are his prime seasons and I've acknowledged the excuses for why he's been poor in his 30s. He was decent-good 2011-2015. A very good career with a short peak when his side were a dynasty force. The other modern greats played to a higher level in the other circumstances (i.e when not part of an active repeat flag winning run).Dusty’s prime(ish) seasons:
2016: AA team and B&F in a team that finished 13th
2017: Record breaking year won everything, Richmond Flag
2018: Richmond minor premiers, Dusty injured in prelim and we lost
2019: AA squad, Finals, MVP, NS and Richmond flag
2020: AA team, Finals MVP, NS and Richmond flag
2021: Dusty kidney injury, Richmond don’t make finals
2022: Dusty dad died and hamstring injury, Richmond lose EF
2023: Dusty AA squad, Richmond finished 13th
As you can see 2016 and 2023 he was elite even though Richmond were trash.
2018, 2021, 2022 we lost when he got injured/depressed
Rest of years when fully fit we won the flag.
That is the definition of carrying a team. You live in la la land if you think he’s a downhill skier.
Tell the world you didn’t watch those games without telling the world you didn’t watch those games
It's not about making guesses, it's about using the games that they played. Neale had an outstanding 17 game H&A season (carrying the fragile Lions, let's be honest), was okay in a QF they romped in and then outstanding in a losing prelim. So yes his season standard was higher than Martin's, but Martin was in a better knockout finals team and was outstanding for those last 3 weeks. It doesn't mean he bridged the gap before that. And it doesn't mean Neale gets marked down for doing all he could in a prelim but his team mates getting bullied by Geelong.Yes, you seem not to be sure how to grade players. Making hypothetical games in your head seems to be the go to atm. It’s strange but intriguing.
Who will be remembered as better finals players Dusty and Hodge or GAJ, Bont, Neale?
These are his prime seasons and I've acknowledged the excuses for why he's been poor in his 30s. He was decent-good 2011-2015. A very good career with a short peak when his side were a dynasty force. The other modern greats played to a higher level in the other circumstances (i.e when not part of an active repeat flag winning run).
Yes which is why Ablett got 80% of the best midfielder votes and Martin got 2% in the recent poll. 40x as many people have Ablett well above, which is the whole reason you keep dragging these topics back up furiously.The world knows, hence why they don’t talk about them. GAJ the “great finals player” yeah sure I hear that everyday