GWS and GC - A stark contrast.

[TheSunGod]

Our start up fitness staff was well below AFL standard and the trainning facilities were /are an absolute embarrassment. I'm sure many suburban Melbourne teams have better facilities.
Anyway as of later this year they are moving into multi million dollar facilities next to Metricon. Apparently will be the most state of the art in the competition. Far cry from the tin sheds they currently have thank goodness.

Apparently the delay was because the AFL didn't want to spend the funds themselves until they could jump on the Commonwealth Games train and get major I put from the government.

 

[Rimmer]

The difference in 2016 is GC had their entire midfield injured for most of the year ... Ablett, Prestia, Swallow, O,Meara, Rischitelli between them missed most of the year. Had they all played through both GC and GWS would have finished top 4.

 

[The Passenger]

Gold Coast have had their injury problems no doubt but it would seem there is a decent portion of the blame to be placed on those put in change of the injury management. Or perhaps the people in those roles weren't given the resources to properly to do so.

There's some serious talent in that team.

GWS senior recruitments was definitely better than the Suns in the end.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Our best players are the seniors we brought in.

Mumford
Shaw
Patfull
Ward
Davis
Scully
Johnson
Griffen

We got lucky that pies didn't want heater anymore and that Adams wanted to go to Collingwood. Win/win trade that has been immense for us.

Missing out on buddy was a god send for us as it pushed Mumford out the doors of Sydney and into our laps. Arguably our most influential and structurally important player.

Patfull was extraordinary in the qualifying final and his experience allowed him to keep cool under pressure and stopped a lot of the swans momentum.

Davis was a perennially injured young defender when we got him. Now he is our co captain and our most vital member of the back 6. Only player on the list that can match up with the leagues best forwards

Ward aka cement head has been our best senior pick up. Leads by example and is always one of our best players on game day.

Scully has finally had his breakout season and earned selection in the all Australian squad. The new rule changes along with our own development has allowed us to capitalise on his elite running ability. He has become a weapon for us and is no longer on the coin that it took to lure him to us.

Johnson was a free kick and what a free kick it was! We offered Geelong a top 10 pick for him 12 months before we got him for a future 5th round selection. Has given us that leadership and experience we have always lacked in the F50 and has made it click. His miracle goals have been a delight all season for me!

Griffen has shown what he can do when he isn't injured and played a great game in the later half of the year. Provides great leadership and has been massive off the field for the boys.


This group is the main reason we are performing well and it came down to a mixture of luck and right place at the right time trades

 

[coerced]

You make some decent points. You talk about additional amounts of money, more access to draft picks, and recruiting techniques/prefetencing. I still put it to people, that aside from these draft picks, GWS have set themselves up far better than GC. I am telling you now, it's not the kids that have put GWS in this position, it's the senior players;
Ward
Shaw
Johnson
Mumford
Patfull
Davis
Scully

You just can't underrate that experience and leadership. Who did GC bring in of note? Ablett? He was the only one who had an impact. GWS also have lost Tyson, Boyd and Treloar, and Marchbank will also leave, so yeah, we can talk about money and picks, but look at clubs who have had high picks and done nothing;
Melbourne - Morton, Watts, Trengove, Scully, that is just to name a few. High picks, poor club, poor culture, no senior leadership. There is definitely more, and the only one you'd now take is Watts.
Richmond - A littany of high picks who've had no impact, due to the same factors Melbourne suffered from.

I've always maintained you can put a team of no.1 picks together, but with a poor club culture and administration, you'll get zero impact. GC have had ENOUGH access to talent to impact, yet we talk about injuries for example? Ok, so why haven't GWS been impacted by injuries? Why did Hawthorn & Geelong always get 90% of their best list on the park? It's not coincidental is it? Is it also worth noting that GWS have Leon Cameron? A former Hawthorn assistant?

There are a lot of points to really think about, and personally, I don't buy the draft pick and money argument.

You can't bring in that many extra senior players in addition to retaining all your talented draft picks without extra space in the salary cap and extra list space, which IronMike ably pointed out in his original post.

Your argument is worthless.

 

[demondavey]

You can't bring in that many extra senior players in addition to retaining all your talented draft picks without extra space in the salary cap and extra list space, which IronMike ably pointed out in his original post.

Your argument is worthless.

Righto mate

 

[Freomaniac]

Geelong;

Harley - Recruited from Port
Hunt - No.44 National Draft
Milburn - No.48 National Draft
Wojo - No.44 National Draft
Enright - No.47 National Draft
Mooney - Recruited from NM
Ottens - Recruited from Richmond
Johnson - No.24 National Draft
Stokes - No.61 National Draft
Rooke - His old man wrote to the club and said pick him!

That's just a sample from the 07 premiership side.

even though they didnt win the flag, look at freos 2013 side that made the grand final......I will post that another day...

 

[DieSwans]

Stupid whinging Vics giving all us Vics a bad name.

 

[demondavey]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-28/how-the-sydney-swans-and-western-bulldogs-built-their-lists

Interesting isn't it?

 

[Unfinished]

If the drafting wasn't great then how are they on the verge of a Premiership so early in the piece? I agree there were so many picks that it would've been hard to **** it up, but SOS' trading for mature players and creating a balance of old and young, as well as bringing in the right characters for little to no cost to build the right culture has been impressive.

Eg GWS got James Mcdonald, GC got Campbell Brown.

Campbell Brown is a horrible example to use...

 

[chunkylover53]

Campbell Brown is a horrible example to use...

y tho

 

[Giant Pete]

People getting carried away. Take out Ward, Coniglio, Griffen, Shiel and Scully from our team and we would be in the exact same position as the Suns. They are a scary unit when all fit. They will belt some teams next year.

 

[CD Xbow]

1. Draft picks are just an underage ranking system for the best youth. Once they get to AFL it's a different story.
2. Senior recruits are critical for success.
3. Culture is critical.
4. Coaching is critical.
5. Luck

Good post, but I had to add one point, luck. As others have said, injuries have cruelled GC, which to most part can be put down to luck. Same with draft picks, it's a bit of a raffle, so luck plays a big part here too. Picking the coaches, support staff and senior recruits also has an element of luck, though you would expect less than the first two if you do appropriate due diligence.

 

[Unfinished]

y tho

A fearless hard tough leader who had already played in a flag with Hawthorn as a leader is not the person you should be singling out..

 

[skipper kelly]

Heres a quick look at the GC Suns 2016 without injuries. I don't know the fringe players that well so an expert can correct a few.

B. Kolodjashnij May Harbrow
HB Malceski Thompson McKenzie
C T. Miller O'Meara Hall
HF Rosa T.Lynch Swallow
F Matera Wright J.Martin
Foll Nicholls Ablett Prestia
I/C Rischitelli Stanley Day Sexton

Looks like a fairly powerful line-up.

 

[TheSunGod]

Heres a quick look at the GC Suns 2016 without injuries. I don't know the fringe players that well so an expert can correct a few.

B. Kolodjashnij May Harbrow
HB Malceski Thompson McKenzie
C T. Miller O'Meara Hall
HF Rosa T.Lynch Swallow
F Matera Wright J.Martin
Foll Nicholls Ablett Prestia
I/C Rischitelli Stanley Day Sexton

Looks like a fairly powerful line-up.

Replace Malceski and Stanley with Saad and Lonergan and you're probably bang on. Problem is our depth doesn't provide much cover. If a couple go down we're ok. If 10 go down which has happened arguably 60% of the last two years we are in big trouble (as most sides would be).

 

[skipper kelly]

Replace Malceski and Stanley with Saad and Lonergan and you're probably bang on. Problem is our depth doesn't provide much cover. If a couple go down we're ok. If 10 go down which has happened arguably 60% of the last two years we are in big trouble (as most sides would be).

Injuries to key players kills. Most teams have depth to cover lesser players being injured, but not many can cover their guns going down. I know Omeara won't be there next year but still a great centre line if you throw Swallow in there. Down the guts May, Thompson, Swallow, Lynch, Wright reads very well. IMO the key players are there for the Suns, just need to get them on the park. Malceski is the cream and him being on the ground with a full list would be invaluable. The depth will develop if the guns get on the park. Plenty played this year when not quite ready, so that is good for the future. Obviously losing O'Meara and Prestia will hurt but the nucleus is still there for a much better 2017.

 

[demondavey]

Interesting to note that Sydney have the following as a core group of players;

Papley
Lloyd
Smith
Richards
Marsh
Rampe
Grundy
Jack
Naismith

All were taken in the fourth round, beyond, or the rookie draft.

Yes the Swans have top round picks, but the majority of their side is not made up of top selections.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Interesting to note that Sydney have the following as a core group of players;

Papley
Lloyd
Smith
Richards
Marsh
Rampe
Grundy
Jack
Naismith

All were taken in the fourth round, beyond, or the rookie draft.

Yes the Swans have top round picks, but the majority of their side is not made up of top selections.

Yet people still claim that they are only good because of cola and academies

 

[Mutt]

Yet people still claim that they are only good because of cola and academies

And if COLA and Academies aren't worth s**t, then let's get rid of them.

 

[demondavey]

And if COLA and Academies aren't worth s**t, then let's get rid of them.

Or maybe your club should hand back it's handouts from the AFL?

 

[Bokonon]

Injuries to key players kills. Most teams have depth to cover lesser players being injured, but not many can cover their guns going down. I know Omeara won't be there next year but still a great centre line if you throw Swallow in there. Down the guts May, Thompson, Swallow, Lynch, Wright reads very well. IMO the key players are there for the Suns, just need to get them on the park. Malceski is the cream and him being on the ground with a full list would be invaluable. The depth will develop if the guns get on the park. Plenty played this year when not quite ready, so that is good for the future. Obviously losing O'Meara and Prestia will hurt but the nucleus is still there for a much better 2017.

I think we'll be rivals moving forward for a while. You're our natural rivals IMO.. The last game we played was a great game of footy, would have been a lot more recognised if at least one Vic team was involved.

 

[Mutt]

Or maybe your club should hand back it's handouts from the AFL?

Lighten up buddy. I was just pointing out the contradiction in his post.

This is not the thread to talk about equalisation policy.

 

[Frankmagpie]

Or maybe your club should hand back it's handouts from the AFL?

So should yours

 

[Cold Sober]

Is Abletts move and subsequent captaincy viewed as a success?

failure send him to essendon please