Speculation Harry McKay

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SnusCG

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1.3 million is insane. I'd be taking it too, and he could go with my blessing.

Our offer will be something like 750 on 2 years to take him up to 8 years F/A.

Uncontracted so we'd have to accept a 1st and a reasonable player.
to start with, theres no way we have 1.3 mil per season spare - like, 0%, so this wouldn't be a legitimate report.

but secondly, I think it's been established in the AFL system that when trades like that happen you end up with a couple of first round picks + some change, and players (particularly good players) aren't involved. It's not like the NBA/NFL where you can trade a player against their will to benefit the club (and forcing them out the door tends to be a really bad idea re. club culture).

eg.

Dixon - 10 + future second
Treloar - 7 + 65 + future first
T.Mitchell - 14 +52
Prestia - 6 + future second
O'Meara - 10 + future second
Lever - 10 + future first + future fourth
Gibbs - 10 + 16 + 73 + future second
Neale - 6 + 19 + 55
Kelly - 14 + 24 + 33 + future first
Hogan - 6 + 23

the only examples of players being involved in a big name since trading future picks was allowed.

Dangerfield - 9 + 28 + Dean Gore (fringe who was delisted)
Wingard - 15 + 35 + future 4th + Burton (Adelaide boy who supported Port as a kid - said he only agreed because he didn't feel wanted at Hawks anymore)
Brad Hill - 10 + 58 + future second + future 4th + Blake Acres (fringe)
 

The 747

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McGovern got dogged by Adelaide in his contract, that played a big part. The dogs offered more for Martin and Saad was offered the same by Essendon. Williams was all about money.

ATM he is going to cost probably ~$200k more then expected. It’s unfortunate but not that big of a deal.
With the benefit of hindsight Adelaide valued McGovern more accurately.

At the moment perhaps 200K YEAH but what if he keeps kicking lots of goals and stays unsigned?
 

Elmer_Judd

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With the benefit of hindsight Adelaide valued McGovern more accurately.

At the moment perhaps 200K YEAH but what if he keeps kicking lots of goals and stays unsigned?
For the record, McGovern left mostly because of what happened at the camp, and is not getting paid as much as what Riccuito and most Crows fans think he is.
 

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Malifice

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to start with, theres no way we have 1.3 mil per season spare - like, 0%, so this wouldn't be a legitimate report.

but secondly, I think it's been established in the AFL system that when trades like that happen you end up with a couple of first round picks + some change, and players (particularly good players) aren't involved. It's not like the NBA/NFL where you can trade a player against their will to benefit the club (and forcing them out the door tends to be a really bad idea re. club culture).
Oh no, I agree with all that. These offers of 1.2 or 1.3 million are insane fantasy land stuff. If they actually eventuated then he can walk with my blessing, laughing all the way to the bank.

If he did decide to go elsewhere, we'd ask for a 1st (this year or next) plus a decent player (we can slot into the midfield).

Contracted, McKay at present would be a (nope) when it came to a trade, but a minimum of 2 x 1sts would be the going rate if we were to entertain trading him contracted.

Uncontracted, his trade value goes down. I dont think a future 1st and a decent player for a year or two is overs.
 

Malifice

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Playing devil's advocate here, is there anything to stop North saying we will give you 1 million bucks to come, but we will give you 1.3 million to come via the PSD?
Other than the AFL rules prohibiting Draft Tampering, nope.

PRECEDENT INFORMATION PAGE (afl.com.au)

Specifically Rule 29.1

See also, Adelaide and Tippet.

North cant exactly come with a crazy offer and then refuse to negotiate a trade in good faith. Arbitration steps in in that case.

Any trade would be for 'unders' due to his contract situation, but talks of 'walking him to the PSD without making a reasonable trade proposal' are fantasy.
 

SnusCG

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Oh no, I agree with all that. These offers of 1.2 or 1.3 million are insane fantasy land stuff. If they actually eventuated then he can walk with my blessing, laughing all the way to the bank.

If he did decide to go elsewhere, we'd ask for a 1st (this year or next) plus a decent player (we can slot into the midfield).

Contracted, McKay at present would be a (nope) when it came to a trade, but a minimum of 2 x 1sts would be the going rate if we were to entertain trading him contracted.

Uncontracted, his trade value goes down. I dont think a future 1st and a decent player for a year or two is overs.
oh for sure that would be the asking rate, but I just don't see players ever getting involved in trades without reason now that futures are involved, ie. behind closed doors they already asked to go home type of thing.

It's kind of like when Dodoro was asking for one of Heeney or Blakey to be involved in the Daniher trade in 2019 or when we were asking for a player in the O'Meara trade. The question is always put out there but it never really eventuates.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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With the benefit of hindsight Adelaide valued McGovern more accurately.

At the moment perhaps 200K YEAH but what if he keeps kicking lots of goals and stays unsigned?
It was that they apparently lied to him. They were probably paying him bang on what he was worth.

He will still stay for unders or go for massive overs. If it gets stupid and over $1mil then that’s when we probably go looking for his replacement.
 

Malifice

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oh for sure that would be the asking rate, but I just don't see players ever getting involved in trades without reason, ie. behind closed doors they already asked to go home type of thing.
Plenty of examples of players being tapped on the shoulder and pushed into a trade (Josh Kennedy in the Judd trade for example, Burton at the Hawks, Treloar last year etc).

They still have to accept of course, but with the immediate trajectory of Norths list being 'bottom out rebuild' it shouldnt be too hard to convince them.
 

bluebaggerjuls

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Other than the AFL rules prohibiting Draft Tampering, nope.

PRECEDENT INFORMATION PAGE (afl.com.au)

Specifically Rule 29.1

See also, Adelaide and Tippet.

North cant exactly come with a crazy offer and then refuse to negotiate a trade in good faith. Arbitration steps in in that case.

Any trade would be for 'unders' due to his contract situation, but talks of 'walking him to the PSD without making a reasonable trade proposal' are fantasy.
isn't that exactly what Adelaide did with hately tho.
 

Malifice

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isn't that exactly what Adelaide did with hately tho.
No, and it wasnt what we did with Martin either.

We offered an early second round pick for Martin, which GCS refused. Adelaide reportedly offered either pick 23 or 40 for Hately which the Giants knocked back. Both clubs then tabled an offer to those players on terms (after the trade couldnt be done), and took them in the PSD.

Thats a little different to providing a financial incentive inducing the player to avoid a trade in advance, to force them into PSD, and then refusing to deal with the oppo club.
 

Elmer_Judd

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Not one player in the league is worth 1.3 P/A, especially under current Salary Cap regulation.

And no way in hell does 'battling North' have that money to spend anyway.

Finally it is on record that North offered Zac Williams quite a bit more coin per season than us, yet he still chose Carlton.
 

Rich01

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If Harry left, I don’t think Carlton would get adequate compo from North. Their second rounder would be their first and last offer, knowing they could get him in the PSD.

In saying that, I don’t think he will leave, but his manager should be asking for $1m a year, and he’ll get it as well.
 

DeezNuts

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Tricky period ahead for Carlton's list management team with Mcgovern, Curnow, Martin, Saad, Weitering, Williams etc all already signed up on relatively big deals

I think the onus is on Cripps here, might need to take a fair chunk less than he was expecting on his next deal to keep them all together
 

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Elmer_Judd

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Tricky period ahead for Carlton's list management team with Mcgovern, Curnow, Martin, Saad, Weitering, Williams etc all already signed up on relatively big deals

I think the onus is on Cripps here, might need to take a fair chunk less than he was expecting on his next deal to keep them all together
Martin's contract was heavily front loaded for his first 2 seasons
 

Malifice

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If Harry left, I don’t think Carlton would get adequate compo from North. Their second rounder would be their first and last offer, knowing they could get him in the PSD.
Which goes straight to arbitration.

If he's a 1 million+ per year player, it's not a second rounder.
 

David_Full

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North should offer one of those 7 year 8 million dollar contracts to lure Harry McKay

I love when other clubs put pressure on others, his brother already plays for the club.

Going from Ben Brown to Harry McKay would be a big win in the space of a year.
 

Malifice

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North should offer one of those 7 year 8 million dollar contracts to lure Harry McKay

I love when other clubs put pressure on others, his brother already plays for the club.

Going from Ben Brown to Harry McKay would be a big win in the space of a year.
There will be no pressure. Our offer will stand at around 750k.

If he walks on that sort of money, we'll take the 1st rounder and grab a Kelly or Merrett as a F/A.
 

Handsome.B.Wonderful

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I don’t remember the last big name player North recruited. They just don’t have that pull. Ben playing there is the only positive and that is probably offset by getting regularly belted for the next 40 odd games.
It depends if you are talking about "big names" or great recruits who performed. Waite, Dal Santo & Higgins all chose North and performed well in finals, playing big parts in teams that made Prelims.

Carlton have landed the "big names" in Saad, Williams and McGovern but they aren't of the same quality and haven't performed yet.
 

schmuttt

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There will be no pressure. Our offer will stand at around 750k.

If he walks on that sort of money, we'll take the 1st rounder and grab a Kelly or Merrett as a F/A.
Merrett isn't going to join Carlton unless you improve your current standing significantly and make finals.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

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It depends if you are talking about "big names" or great recruits who performed. Waite, Dal Santo & Higgins all chose North and performed well in finals, playing big parts in teams that made Prelims.

Carlton have landed the "big names" in Saad, Williams and McGovern but they aren't of the same quality and haven't performed yet.
You could argue North’s recruits have performed better yes.
 

Elmer_Judd

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I’ll also argue that Dal Santo, Waite and Higgins are all far bigger names than Saad, Williams and McGovern.

Put it this way, Nick Dal Santo has played more games than all of Carlton’s “big names” put together.
So what ?
Zac Williams took far less money to come play with us than join your mob.
 

Malifice

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Merrett isn't going to join Carlton unless you improve your current standing significantly and make finals.
I tend to agree.

While we've had issues defensively this year and can play better than we have, we've also had a tough start to the year with losses to the top 3 from last year (Port, Tigers, Brissy) and games coming up against the top 2 this year (Dogs and Melbourne) over the next two weeks.

We've beaten teams we should beat (Freo, Suns, Bombers) and lost to teams that are frankly better than us (Port, Tigers, Brissy) with a loss to Collingwood being the aberration (and one we should have won). While our wins were scratchy, we also havent been blown away in any losses either.

If we can snatch a win over the next 2 games, we'll be 4 and 5, and have a pretty good run coming up after that with Hawthorn, Sydney (A), West Coast (MCG), GWS (A), Adelaide (MCG), Freo (A), Geelong (MCG), Collingwood, North, St Kilda, GCS (Marvel), and then Port (A).

Other than the Port game in Adelaide, and the Hawks game (because they have the wood on us, and we can NOT seem to beat them for some reason) they're all winnable, and with the way this season is going, positions 6-8 on the ladder are anyone's.
 

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