Harry Himmelberg [Re-Signed to 2029]

[Pure_Ownage]

You’re front of the line, I hear. Not interested in big $$$. Likely as a result of being surrounded by players who earn millions and have no success.

Thats interesting. Look we do need kpp given the age of all our kpp so i can see the fit. Id just be surprised if he gave up a lot of $ to do it (we would have the cap space to pay more but we dont tend to).

The other aspect us gws-id assume they match unless its band 1? (We dont have the picks to trade this year and wont be). So im not sure he can get to us unless its on higher $ anyway.

 

[Giant Strides]

Thats interesting. Look we do need kpp given the age of all our kpp so i can see the fit. Id just be surprised if he gave up a lot of $ to do it (we would have the cap space to pay more but we dont tend to).

The other aspect us gws-id assume they match unless its band 1? (We dont have the picks to trade this year and wont be). So im not sure he can get to us unless its on higher $ anyway.

Yep, if GWS isn't getting a first round pick, then I think it would be pretty-much guaranteed that we would match the lower $$ on offer for him. Kingsley has said now on numerous occasions that he's important to our structure, and his versatility is excellent.

Clearly a choice for clubs: pay top $$ to get him free of draft pick payments, or pay him less but have to trade for him.

I doubt GWS really wants to lose him, but won't (I hope) be prepared to overpay to keep him. For HH, the decision will come down to what he is actually looking for.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yep, if GWS isn't getting a first round pick, then I think it would be pretty-much guaranteed that we would match the lower $$ on offer for him. Kingsley has said now on numerous occasions that he's important to our structure, and his versatility is excellent.

Clearly a choice for clubs: pay top $$ to get him free of draft pick payments, or pay him less but have to trade for him.

I doubt GWS really wants to lose him, but won't (I hope) be prepared to overpay to keep him. For HH, the decision will come down to what he is actually looking for.

I agree with that.
For the record i expect we have the cap space to make him a band 1 offer we just generally dont tend to do that.
Maybe we will offer him daniher band 1 money for 2 or 3 years and then extend him at a lower rate post that (if the afl still allows it).

 

[tiger_tough]

I agree with that.
For the record i expect we have the cap space to make him a band 1 offer we just generally dont tend to do that.
Maybe we will offer him daniher band 1 money for 2 or 3 years and then extend him at a lower rate post that (if the afl still allows it).

Didn't they close that loophole?

 

[JasRulz63]

Didn't they close that loophole?

It was mentioned that the AFL was probing the extension, but then we didn't hear anything else after it I think.

 

[FB19]

We should be the giants best ally either we take the enormous Whitfield contract or we get Harry Himmelberg for way overs and give them another very early pick.

 

[Tom14]

I agree with that.
For the record i expect we have the cap space to make him a band 1 offer we just generally dont tend to do that.
Maybe we will offer him daniher band 1 money for 2 or 3 years and then extend him at a lower rate post that (if the afl still allows it).

There is no loophole per se to offer a high base salary for say 3 years which gets band 1 compo (which we did with Daniher) - controversy is whether you are allowed to alter the terms of the FA deal with an extension for further years afterwards.

Logically you really shouldn't be able to, and I'm pretty sure Sydney weren't allowed to adjust any of the money Buddy got? I can't recall if we ever got confirmation that the Lions actually changed any of the $ that Daniher got in the initial FA deal.

On HH - I have minimal interest in paying him a band 1 worthy deal as a key forward. I have a lot of interest in paying him that to be an intercepting key back/general defender for Brisbane, but assume he isn't keen on that positional shift full-time.

 

[tiger_tough]

Ralphy said yesterday tigers and swans most keen. The Age reporting we haven't actually met with him yet as was reported last week.

 

[PaythePerryman]

There is no loophole per se to offer a high base salary for say 3 years which gets band 1 compo (which we did with Daniher) - controversy is whether you are allowed to alter the terms of the FA deal with an extension for further years afterwards.

Logically you really shouldn't be able to, and I'm pretty sure Sydney weren't allowed to adjust any of the money Buddy got? I can't recall if we ever got confirmation that the Lions actually changed any of the $ that Daniher got in the initial FA deal.

On HH - I have minimal interest in paying him a band 1 worthy deal as a key forward. I have a lot of interest in paying him that to be an intercepting key back/general defender for Brisbane, but assume he isn't keen on that positional shift full-time.

I actually don't think he would mind playing as a defender. He's deadly back there. Giants just NEED him to be a forward.
I agree he isn't worth band 1 unless you play him as a defender. He's prime Haynes adding on elite disposal.

 

[Tom14]

I actually don't think he would mind playing as a defender. He's deadly back there. Giants just NEED him to be a forward.
I agree he isn't worth band 1 unless you play him as a defender. He's prime Haynes adding on elite disposal.

We'll have Daniel Rich retiring soon and I genuinely think HH could replace him in our lineup as an unaccountable medium defender - but with the intercepting ability you mention. Wouldn't even need to mind a key forward unless there was a run of injuries.

But suspect our ability to offer the band 1 compo contract might be limited, and we'd have to do that to get him with no first round pick this year.

 

[My Tilly]

He reeks of a Geelong type pickup. Or swans.

Geelong only have a couple of young kpp's on the list and not sure Ratugolea goes forward again.

I'd be far more keen on Tom De Koning as he would make a better forward prospect than Himmelberg while sharing ruck duties with Conway.

 

[tiger_tough]

Geelong only have a couple of young kpp's on the list and not sure Ratugolea goes forward again.

I'd be far more keen on Tom De Koning as he would make a better forward prospect than Himmelberg while sharing ruck duties with Conway.

You reckon? Hasn't shown it yet.

 

[My Tilly]

You reckon? Hasn't shown it yet.

I should say I can see more potential than Himmelberg who has only managed 30+ goals in a season on two occasions.
I get he's a good utility but De Koning at 23 years of age, his ceiling is higher.

 

[Bevoman]

There is no loophole per se to offer a high base salary for say 3 years which gets band 1 compo (which we did with Daniher) - controversy is whether you are allowed to alter the terms of the FA deal with an extension for further years afterwards.

Logically you really shouldn't be able to, and I'm pretty sure Sydney weren't allowed to adjust any of the money Buddy got? I can't recall if we ever got confirmation that the Lions actually changed any of the $ that Daniher got in the initial FA deal.

On HH - I have minimal interest in paying him a band 1 worthy deal as a key forward. I have a lot of interest in paying him that to be an intercepting key back/general defender for Brisbane, but assume he isn't keen on that positional shift full-time.

I expect GWS to match any offers thus, forcing a trade.
It is how they got three picks out of Geelong for Jeremy Cameron

 

[tiger_tough]

I should say I can see more potential than Himmelberg who has only managed 30+ goals in a season on two occasions.
I get he's a good utility but De Koning at 23 years of age, his ceiling is higher.

He was kicking a fair few in a shite team last year before McVeigh took over and moved him back.

 

[tiger_tough]

I expect GWS to match any offers thus, forcing a trade.
It is how they got three picks out of Geelong for Jeremy Cameron

I dont. The compo for band 2 would be around the same as they'd get for a trade for HH whereas they got 2 extra first rounders by forcing cats to trade for Cameron....

 

[Tom14]

I dont. The compo for band 2 would be around the same as they'd get for a trade for HH whereas they got 2 extra first rounders by forcing cats to trade for Cameron....

They were a finals team that year too, would have ended up being pick 12 only I think if they'd taken the compo. They got so much more back in the trade.

Hasn't the reporting also been that while their cap is a bit healthier, its still not exactly flush with space so not sure if matching a Himmelberg contract is worth it when they might end up with say pick 7/8 in FA compo if its band 1?

 

[tiger_tough]

They were a finals team that year too, would have ended up being pick 12 only I think if they'd taken the compo. They got so much more back in the trade.

Hasn't the reporting also been that while their cap is a bit healthier, its still not exactly flush with space so not sure if matching a Himmelberg contract is worth it when they might end up with say pick 7/8 in FA compo if its band 1?

Kingsley was asked about that the other night on 360, he said it was all in order but he probably wouldn't say otherwise.

Cant see gws matching a band 2 compo, no chance matching a band 1 compo.

 

[Giant Strides]

Cant see gws matching a band 2 compo, no chance matching a band 1 compo.

I disagree, I'd be highly confidant that we'd match if we thought it would be band 2. His value would be more than end of first round.

 

[anotherletdown]

He's good at both ends but great at neither. Is a swing man more valuable than a player who is very good at one area of the ground? Himmelburg can only really be in one position at any one time.

I feel the AFL "swingman" is overrated.

Except at Sydney. Here it's a key part of our structure. Sam Reid just by being on the field makes us look better, it's hard to fathom really

 

[tiger_tough]

I disagree, I'd be highly confidant that we'd match if we thought it would be band 2. His value would be more than end of first round.

You think? His numbers are eerily similar to Finlaysons over their career who was traded for a 3rd rounder. Ladhams went to Sydney for a 4-pick upgrade and a 3rd rounder. Josh Bruce went to the Dogs for a late 2nd and late 3rd.

In fairness I'd have HH ahead of all those guys in terms of trade value but not by twice as much. I couldn't see anyone paying up more than around pick 20 for a solid utility in HH. In fact, I don't think you'd get that for him on the trade table.

 

[Giant Strides]

You think? His numbers are eerily similar to Finlaysons over their career who was traded for a 3rd rounder. Ladhams went to Sydney for a 4-pick upgrade and a 3rd rounder. Josh Bruce went to the Dogs for a late 2nd and late 3rd.

In fairness I'd have HH ahead of all those guys in terms of trade value but not by twice as much. I couldn't see anyone paying up more than around pick 20 for a solid utility in HH. In fact, I don't think you'd get that for him on the trade table.

Then he'll be at GWS next year!

 

[tiger_tough]

Then he'll be at GWS next year!

Teams don't match bids for blokes that want to leave unless they know they're going to get a trade bounty out of it. Even then, it's rare.

 

[tiger_tough]

i believe matching a bid doesn't mean they stay, they just have to be traded but if a decent offer doesn't come then they can walk to the draft and anyone can take them

so far whenever a bid has been matched a suitable trade has been struck

Thats what I was getting at.

 

[Shadow89]

GWS have shown they have no trouble with matching, if they can even extract the smallest bit more.

They don't want to be seen as 'pushovers' anymore who just give away their players, so they're happy to play hardball if need be.

Reckon it's Giants, Swans or Tigs - with us as a smokey. Either way he'll need to be paid 750K+ for the Giants not to match, and I can see Richmond and Swans as most likely to do that if it saves them picks.

If he gets his worth which is around the 500-600K mark, then that would be Band 2 and GWS would almost certainly force a trade - as that's likely to be around Pick 25ish.

Gonna be an interesting one, but I reckon Tiges are most likely given their dearth of decent talls and picks - and might shell out 750k for 4 years, with a view to pay him less at the backend of his career. Dusty, Riewoldt, Tarrant, Grimes etc. all retiring over the next few years, should give them more than enough cash to do so.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out, as I reckon the best thing for the Giants would be to keep him, and let someone like Whitfield go instead.