Has Competitive Equalisation created a need for wild-card finals?

[Whiskers]

If the idea is to make more money why not play 3rd vs 6th and 4th vs 5th on that weekend also for a top 4 spot?

 

[MadMundy]

Wildcard rule never needs to be introduced, the league has been perfect with an 8 team finals series for the longest time, they don't need to change it now.

 

[jwint43]

Having 18 teams and 8 finalists has made finals more rewarding as it is harder to get in, and it's made the teams that actually make it be of a better quality. The 7th and 8th sides in recent years have been pretty good and far more competitive than the 16 team era.

Wildcard games will be meaningless.

 

[peetoo]

Which just means eight is too many.

Yep. The current elim finals are the wildcards

Want to compensate for ‘inequities’? Make 5 v 8 and 6 v 7 two leg home and away. This is not traditional AFL though

 

[Dan26]

I was on Dwayne's World this afternoon and won a Grandmother Ham for my call.

I was advocating for the knockout final-10. I'm the first caller. I feel like such a nerd, lol.

Dwayne's World

Dwayne’s World will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre

www.sen.com.au

 

[Breretonisahood]

The so-called wild card round is just a final 10. If it’s 7 v 10 and 8 v 9, it will be virtually impossible for any of these teams to win 5 games straight without a break to win a flag. The great irony is that effectively you really now only have 6 teams that could win the flag, even though you’ve increased the number of finalists to 10.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It really boils down to whether you'd be okay with the team that finished tenth in the H&A rounds lifting the cup at the end of the season. If so, then sure, go for it.

I think that bit gets lost to a degree by everyone getting so excited about "Carlton v Collingwood in a wildcard game: sick!!!": could you actually live with the team that finished tenth making a prelim, making the grand final, winning the grand final?

 

[peetoo]

I was on Dwayne's World this afternoon and won a Grandmother Ham for my call.

I was advocating for the knockout final-10. I'm the first caller. I feel like such a nerd, lol.

Dwayne's World

Dwayne’s World will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre

www.sen.com.au

You put it well.

 

[Dan26]

The so-called wild card round is just a final 10. If it’s 7 v 10 and 8 v 9, it will be virtually impossible for any of these teams to win 5 games straight without a break to win a flag. The great irony is that effectively you really now only have 6 teams that could win the flag, even though you’ve increased the number of finalists to 10.

Yes, this is what I think too. The proposed wild card thing is an 11-match 5 week final-10. It's too convoluted; too long.

Since 1972, when the final-5 was introduced making it necessary for some teams to win 4 finals to win the premiership only one team in those 52 years has won 4 finals from outside the top-4 (The Bulldogs in 2016). The Crows won 4 finals from 4th under a different system, but only one in 52 years has won 4 finals from outside the top-4.

And this wild-card mess means 4 teams will now have to win FIVE matches. It's ridiculous. It needs to be a knockout final-10 - 9 finals over 4 weeks.

I get that the final-10 isn't for everyone and most prefer 8, but we are definately going to go to 10 when Tasmania enter the league and we have 19 teams. So why not do it now? The AFL introduced the final-8 in a 15-team league in 1994 in anticipation of Fremantle entering the next season so there is a precedent for expanding the finals BEFORE the expansion team enters.

The best thing about the knockout final-10 is that it retains the bye for the top-6 in the first week ensuring they can have players get over their injuries (which is an selling point of the bye this week on September 2nd as I am writing this) but it ALSO has the bye before the Grand Final. You can't do that under the current system, because it expands the finals to 6 weeks. The knockout final-10 is able to have byes in both the first week for the top-6) and the 4th week (bye before the Grand Final)

It needs to happen. We are going to move to a final-10 in 2028 anyway, but it needs to be the right final-10.

WEEK 1
1st elimination final: 7 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9

WEEK 2
1st Semi Final: 1st vs lowest ranked Elimination final winner (1 v 8)
2nd Semi Final: 2nd vs highest ranked Elimination final winner (2 v 7)
3rd Semi Final : 3 v 6
4th Semi Final : 4 v 5

WEEK 3
1st Preliminary Final: highest ranked team vs lowest ranked team (1 v 4)
2nd Preliminary Final: 2nd-highest ranked team vs 2nd lowest ranked team (2 v 3)

WEEK 4
Bye (ensuring 14 day break for Grand Final)

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)

 

[Billy ray]

Yes, this is what I think too. The proposed wild card thing is an 11-match 5 week final-10. It's too convoluted; too long.

Since 1972, when the final-5 was introduced making it necessary for some teams to win 4 finals to win the premiership only one team in those 52 years has won 4 finals from outside the top-4 (The Bulldogs in 2016). The Crows won 4 finals from 4th under a different system, but only one in 52 years has won 4 finals from outside the top-4.

And this wild-card mess means 4 teams will now have to win FIVE matches. It's ridiculous. It needs to be a knockout final-10 - 9 finals over 4 weeks.

I get that the final-10 isn't for everyone and most prefer 8, but we are definately going to go to 10 when Tasmania enter the league and we have 19 teams. So why not do it now? The AFL introduced the final-8 in a 15-team league in 1994 in anticipation of Fremantle entering the next season so there is a precedent for expanding the finals BEFORE the expansion team enters.

The best thing about the knockout final-10 is that it retains the bye for the top-6 in the first week ensuring they can have players get over their injuries (which is an selling point of the bye this week on September 2nd as I am writing this) but it ALSO has the bye before the Grand Final. You can't do that under the current system, because it expands the finals to 6 weeks. The knockout final-10 is able to have byes in both the first week for the top-6) and the 4th week (bye before the Grand Final)

It needs to happen. We are going to move to a final-10 in 2028 anyway, but it needs to be the right final-10.

WEEK 1
1st elimination final: 7 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9

WEEK 2
1st Semi Final: 1st vs lowest ranked Elimination final winner (1 v 8)
2nd Semi Final: 2nd vs highest ranked Elimination final winner (2 v 7)
3rd Semi Final : 3 v 6
4th Semi Final : 4 v 5

WEEK 3
1st Preliminary Final: highest ranked team vs lowest ranked team (1 v 4)
2nd Preliminary Final: 2nd-highest ranked team vs 2nd lowest ranked team (2 v 3)

WEEK 4
Bye (ensuring 14 day break for Grand Final)

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)

Can you post one where each week the non favourite wins?

Ham ham grandmother ham

 

[Dan26]

Can you post one where each week the non favourite wins?

Odds of the below happening. 1,000,000,000,000,000 to 1

1st elimination final: 7 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9

WEEK 2
1st Semi Final: 1st vs lowest ranked Elimination final winner (1 v 10)
2nd Semi Final: 2nd vs highest ranked Elimination final winner (2 v 9)
3rd Semi Final : 3 v 6
4th Semi Final : 4 v 5

WEEK 3
1st Preliminary Final: highest ranked team vs lowest ranked team (5 v 10)
2nd Preliminary Final: 2nd-highest ranked team vs 2nd lowest ranked team (6 v 9)

WEEK 4
Bye (ensuring 14 day break for Grand Final)

WEEK 5
Grand Final (9 v 10)

 

[Billy ray]

As i have said in previous posts on this, i think the afl is too wedded to tradition and double chances. But agree this is better.
Enjoy your ham. Im jealous. I like ham.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Damien Barrett reporting today that the current consensus is that it won't be happening any time soon, despite as recently as a few months ago looking like a certainty for 2025.

The incredible final Sunday of round 24 proved it's a pointless idea.

Considering the 7 vs 10 and 8 vs 9 option for a moment...
All bias aside, why should Fremantle, fresh off 4 consecutive losses, get another chance (hypothetically) against Hawthorn, coming off 14 wins from 18 games?

The form line is already there and both teams finished where they deserved to at the completion of the home and away season.

 

[Dan26]

Damien Barrett reporting today that the current consensus is that it won't be happening any time soon, despite as recently as a few months ago looking like a certainty for 2025.

The incredible final Sunday of round 24 proved it's a pointless idea.

Considering the 7 vs 10 and 8 vs 9 option for a moment...
All bias aside, why should Fremantle, fresh off 4 consecutive losses, get another chance (hypothetically) against Hawthorn, coming off 14 wins from 18 games?

This rationale doesn't make sense.

Fremantle finished 12-10-1, Hawthorn finished 14-9.

Suppose Fremantle were 8-10-1 and then won their last 4 games to get to 12-10-1? And suppose Hawthorn started the season 14-4, and then lost their last 5 games to finish 14-9?

Under whatever system you use, if you finish in the required position on the ladder you deserve to make it, because the same rules apply to everyone. Recent form has nothing to do with it.

You also talk about how an incredible Sunday proved it's a bad idea.

Had a final-10 been in place, the Melbourne-Collingwood match would have been a match to determine who finished 10th. Essentially an elimination Final. It would have drawn 85,000 instead of the dead-rubber 50,000 that it drew. There is your economic benefit right there.

That would have been pretty incredible. Consider how huge that match would have been.

This would have been the ladder going into the final round. I've given Collingwood 12 wins not 11 because two draws is the same as 12 wins 10 losses from 22 games. Consider the battle to finish in the top-6 also.

1.SYDNEY 16-6
2. PORT AD-15-7
3. GWS 15-7
4. GEELONG 14-8
5. BRISBANE 13-1-8
6. BULLDOGS 13-9
7. Hawthorn 13-9
8. Carlton 13-9
9.Fremantle 12-9-1
10.Collingwood 12-10.....100.1%
11. Essendon 11-10-1
12. Melbourne 11-11..........101.1%

Could have potentially got 90,000 on Friday night.

Fremantle, Carlton and Hawthorn would have all all still had possibilities of making the top-6. Essendon could still have made it if Melbourne beat Collingwood and the Bombers beat Brisbane.

 

[Chiz]

The so-called wild card round is just a final 10. If it’s 7 v 10 and 8 v 9, it will be virtually impossible for any of these teams to win 5 games straight without a break to win a flag. The great irony is that effectively you really now only have 6 teams that could win the flag, even though you’ve increased the number of finalists to 10.

It really boils down to whether you'd be okay with the team that finished tenth in the H&A rounds lifting the cup at the end of the season. If so, then sure, go for it.

I think that bit gets lost to a degree by everyone getting so excited about "Carlton v Collingwood in a wildcard game: sick!!!": could you actually live with the team that finished tenth making a prelim, making the grand final, winning the grand final?

On the one hand, you've got one argument that it would be virtually impossible for 7-10 to win the flag with a wildcard game, and then you've got another suggesting that people wouldn't be comfortable with 10th winning the grand final. I'd suggest that even if the 10th placed team carried the most form into the finals, their chances of winning the GF would still be very low (say less than 5%). It's probably a bit higher under a knockout system as they would only have to win 4 games instead of 5, but it would still be unlikely.

 

[Dogflogger]

it all sounds a bit demented.

 

[Dangerousfield]

The so-called wild card round is just a final 10. If it’s 7 v 10 and 8 v 9, it will be virtually impossible for any of these teams to win 5 games straight without a break to win a flag. The great irony is that effectively you really now only have 6 teams that could win the flag, even though you’ve increased the number of finalists to 10.

Can't we just leave things as they are, AFL always has to be dreaming up new ideas, nearly always about making extra money to meet execs KPI's.

You have 23 weeks to stake your claim to a finals spot. If you can't get it done in 23 weeks, try again next year!

This will just allow perennial bed sh*tters like Essendon and Freo another go despite not getting it done in 23 regular H&A games.

Stop effing our game AFL, get on with more important things like fixing the umpiring and the farcical draft, you've dropped the ball on those in recent seasons!

 

[Dangerousfield]

This rationale doesn't make sense.

Fremantle finished 12-10-1, Hawthorn finished 14-9.

Suppose Fremantle were 8-10-1 and then won their last 4 games to get to 12-10-1? And suppose Hawthorn started the season 14-4, and then lost their last 5 games to finish 14-9?

Under whatever system you use, if you finish in the required position on the ladder you deserve to make it, because the same rules apply to everyone. Recent form has nothing to do with it.

You also talk about how an incredible Sunday proved it's a bad idea.

Had a final-10 been in place, the Melbourne-Collingwood match would have been a match to determine who finished 10th. Essentially an elimination Final. It would have drawn 85,000 instead of the dead-rubber 50,000 that it drew. There is your economic benefit right there.

That would have been pretty incredible. Consider how huge that match would have been.

This would have been the ladder going into the final round. I've given Collingwood 12 wins not 11 because two draws is the same as 12 wins 10 losses from 22 games. Consider the battle to finish in the top-6 also.

1.SYDNEY 16-6
2. PORT AD-15-7
3. GWS 15-7
4. GEELONG 14-8
5. BRISBANE 13-1-8
6. BULLDOGS 13-9
7. Hawthorn 13-9
8. Carlton 13-9
9.Fremantle 12-9-1
10.Collingwood 12-10.....100.1%
11. Essendon 11-10-1
12. Melbourne 11-11..........101.1%

Could have potentially got 90,000 on Friday night.

Fremantle, Carlton and Hawthorn would have all all still had possibilities of making the top-6. Essendon could still have made it if Melbourne beat Collingwood and the Bombers beat Brisbane.

Looked at what team this poster supports - yup, Essendon. Just the kind of club that's desperate for a wildcard final so they have a shot at actually winning one. How many days now, 8,542 and counting?

 

[Daka]

Wild card is just another excuse for the AFL to make more money, I'm actually surprised guys like Luke Hodge have advocated for this. a lot of people can't see past that it won't a better quality finals.

 

[Purple Suit]

Can't we just leave things as they are, AFL always has to be dreaming up new ideas, nearly always about making extra money to meet execs KPI's.

You have 23 weeks to stake your claim to a finals spot. If you can't get it done in 23 weeks, try again next year!

This will just allow perennial bed sh*tters like Essendon and Freo another go despite not getting it done in 23 regular H&A games.

Stop effing our game AFL, get on with more important things like fixing the umpiring and the farcical draft, you've dropped the ball on those in recent seasons!

The problem is they haven’t left things the way they are for 40 years so why start now?

The only compelling reason to play a wildcard round is to fill up the pre-finals bye with a couple of games.

It is the biggest anticlimax having a full weekend off at this time of the year. Especially for a code hell bent on over saturating the media.

 

[Billy ray]

The only compelling reason to play a wildcard round is to fill up the pre-finals bye with a couple of games

A problem they created and a solution to their problem

Or you know remove the first change, have no pre finals bye, but (due to concussion protocols ) insert the bye to pre GF and on that weekend you have brownlow and lower league grand finals

 

[Dan26]

Looked at what team this poster supports - yup, Essendon. Just the kind of club that's desperate for a wildcard final so they have a shot at actually winning one. How many days now, 8,542 and counting?

Geez buddy could you be more insulting? Why make the (incorrect) assumption that every opinion a person has about any topic is somehow related to their own footy team? I've been an advocate of a final-10 ever since it was announced that Tasmania would enter the competition as the 19th team. It's got nothing to do with who I go for.

There is precedent for this. In 1994 it was a 15-team league and the AFL introduced a final-8, meaning more teams made the finals than missed. They did this in anticipation of Fremantle's entry into the league as the 16th team the following season to get people used to the final-8 one year early.

I think they should do the same with the final-10 because we all know that when the competition moves to 19 teams that we will have a 10-team finals series. Why not just do it now to get people used to it?

I also have been very critical of this wild card crap. I don't like the AFL's proposed system, which is essentially an 11-match 5-week final-10 which is the wrong type of system. It's too messy, too convoluted. I think it should be a knockout final-10, nine finals over 4 weeks, which is more efficient and in my opinion, fairer.

Can't we just leave things as they are, AFL always has to be dreaming up new ideas, nearly always about making extra money to meet execs KPI's.

The reason things change occasionally, is because the competition changes. We have moved from a 16-team league to an 18-team league to a 19-team league. Due to this, the AFL rightly consider adding more teams to the finals.

 

[Purple Suit]

A problem they created and a solution to their problem

Or you know remove the first change, have no pre finals bye, but (due to concussion protocols ) insert the bye to pre GF and on that weekend you have brownlow and lower league grand finals

Your idea is better but I haven't seen the AFL wind back a change yet.

A pre GF bye would suck as well, I just want to get rid of it or fill it with some sort of Footy from the competition I have been watching. I'd even go for a 17th v 18th spoon game and the loser gets presented with it at the end if the bye is staying.

 

[janty]

Next year the Suns and Fremantle will finish 9th and 10th and no one will bring up the wildcard round idea.

 

[Dan26]

A problem they created and a solution to their problem

Or you know remove the first change, have no pre finals bye, but (due to concussion protocols ) insert the bye to pre GF and on that weekend you have brownlow and lower league grand finals

If you use the knockout final-10, you get both.

The top-6 have the week off in the first week of the finals, so they get the 14-day preparation for their first final, and you can have the bye before the Grand Final, because the finals series is condensed one week, so this can be implemented without extending the finals series longer than 5 weeks.