NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[PJays]

"Amy" is the one who made a number of the claims and she was not present at the time the discussions took place.

It was "Amy"' 's partner, not her, who was quoted in the Binmada/Egan report.

Regardless of who was quoted, I find it very difficult to believe that the event occurred exactly as described in the report.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

So is massively embellishing your accusations.

Right ?

Or only one side would play dirty?

Of course they could be.

 

[Elixuh]

We don't know that. In a civil case, if they subpoenaed documents, there can be a counter process to not have them released if they're not relevant.

Yeah we don’t know that. But I’m responding to people making posts about things which they equally have no idea about.

If we limited posting to that then the thread would be dead

 

[Elixuh]

But it could be.

Trueeee

 

[Chief]

It was "Amy"' 's partner, not her, who was quoted in the Binmada/Egan report.

Regardless of who was quoted, I find it very difficult to believe that the event occurred exactly as described in the report.

I don't think many people do, when they think about it. It's ten years or so.

 

[perplexed]

It’s a big strategic gamble to hinge things on whether or not documents are produced.

There has also been no suggestion that the documents requested aren’t relevant. On the contrary the suggestion has simply been that access has been either denied or delayed.

It is likely that if the documents weren't relevant that Quinn wouldn't have asked the players permission to release them. More likely is that they are a combination of player medical records viewed by the coaches prior to their actions and records of interview from the Hawthorn review which are covered by NDA's.

 

[Elixuh]

It is likely that if the documents weren't relevant that Quinn wouldn't have asked the players permission to release them. More likely is that they are a combination of player medical records viewed by the coaches prior to their actions and records of interview from the Hawthorn review which are covered by NDA's.

Ah, I didn’t realise that had happened. Then yes that is a fair assumption.

 

[perplexed]

Ah, I didn’t realise that had happened. Then yes that is a fair assumption.

It was in this

Revealed: How Hawks investigation stalled over key documents

An impasse over releasing private information about ex-Hawthorn players to former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt has delayed the AFL panel’s investigation into mistreatment claims.

www.theage.com.au

 

[blackshadow]

It was in this

Revealed: How Hawks investigation stalled over key documents

An impasse over releasing private information about ex-Hawthorn players to former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt has delayed the AFL panel’s investigation into mistreatment claims.

www.theage.com.au

“This objection was made on the basis that the production of documents at this time prejudices the prospects of successful mediation.

I wonder why that would be…

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

“This objection was made on the basis that the production of documents at this time prejudices the prospects of successful mediation.

I wonder why that would be…

Why?

 

[perplexed]

“This objection was made on the basis that the production of documents at this time prejudices the prospects of successful mediation.

I wonder why that would be…

No idea. But it does suggest that the documents requested are relevant and not part of a fishing expedition or delaying tactics as some on here have suggested.

 

[HairyO]

I don't think many people do, when they think about it. It's ten years or so.

Depends on the event. I would think that miscarriages, abortions, being told that football is more important than your relationship, etc would all stay fairly fresh of mind.

I have strong recollections of things 40 years ago, but cant remember where I left the cat last week.

 

[blackshadow]

No idea. But it does suggest that the documents requested are relevant and not part of a fishing expedition or delaying tactics as some on here have suggested.

To me it suggests that those documents probably puts context around the allegations and shows that what actually happened all those years back was quite different to the stories told to messrs Egan and Jackson.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

No idea. But it does suggest that the documents requested are relevant and not part of a fishing expedition or delaying tactics as some on here have suggested.

I don't think that's been suggested. It's been pointed out that it's possible.

 

[Chief]

Depends on the event. I would think that miscarriages, abortions, being told that football is more important than your relationship, etc would all stay fairly fresh of mind.

I have strong recollections of things 40 years ago, but cant remember where I left the cat last week.

No I recall from reading about this stuff that your brain still edits its memories even with a shocking event. Then there is the theory that when we remember an event, we are remembering the last time we remembered it, not the day itself.

Here's an example:

Long-term memory for the terrorist attack of September 11: Flashbulb memories, event memories, and the factors that influence their retention - PMC

More than 3,000 individuals from seven US cities reported on their memories of learning of the terrorist attacks of September 11, as well as details about the attack, one week, 11 months, and/or 35 months after the assault. Some studies of flashbulb ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[apollo_creed]

To me it suggests that those documents probably puts context around the allegations and shows that what actually happened all those years back was quite different to the stories told to messrs Egan and Jackson.

Stop with the common sense.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

To me it suggests that those documents probably puts context around the allegations and shows that what actually happened all those years back was quite different to the stories told to messrs Egan and Jackson.

Yes one thing I have always thought is if these events (or something similar to what was described) did actually happen there must have been some pretty remarkable circumstances around them.

I strongly, strongly doubt that Clarkson, Fagan and Burt would just go and meddle in the personal affairs of a player just for kicks. What possible benefit would they get out of that, they aren't monsters yet that's exactly how Egan and Jackson have portrayed them.

That's what those documents would have shown I believe, some extreme personal circumstances surrounding these players and their families that would test anybody's ability to deal with in the moment.

 

[Chief]

I strongly, strongly doubt that Clarkson, Fagan and Burt would just go and meddle in the personal affairs of a player just for kicks.

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

 

[perplexed]

I don't think that's been suggested. It's been pointed out that it's possible.

That's what 'suggested' means.

 

[blackshadow]

Yes one thing I have always thought is if these events (or something similar to what was described) did actually happen there must have been some pretty remarkable circumstances around them.

I strongly, strongly doubt that Clarkson, Fagan and Burt would just go and meddle in the personal affairs of a player just for kicks. What possible benefit would they get out of that, they aren't monsters yet that's exactly how Egan and Jackson have portrayed them.

That's what those documents would have shown I believe, some extreme personal circumstances surrounding these players and their families that would test anybody's ability to deal with in the moment.

I’d say the documents provide context.

If the accusers want reconciliation and the ability to move on from whatever the events were why are they objecting to the provision of documented evidence that would shed further light on the events?

 

[Chief]

If the accusers want reconciliation and the ability to move on from whatever the events were why are they objecting to the provision of documented evidence that would shed further light on the events?

If the accused are innocent just show up and say what happened.

Simple.

 

[QuietB]

If the accused are innocent just show up and say what happened.

Simple.

The medical records are the evidence of what happened.

As a side note Clarkson, Fagan and Burt do deserve credit for not saying "what happened". They have shown a whole lot more respect to the accused than anyone has shown to them.

 

[Chief]

I'd say that's on legal advice.

 

[QuietB]

I'd say that's on legal advice.

Maybe. But they were there. They know precisely what did and didn't happen. And they know precisely what is in the records the players do not want to release.

 

[Chief]

They know precisely what did and didn't happen. And they know precisely what is in the records the players do not want to release.

They know as much as they remember ten years on. If it was not too much of an out of the ordinary situation compared to other player welfare issues they might remember even less.