Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[sr36]

Did you not see the animosity between the two parties during the Pies/Hawks match at Gather Round?

No I didn't.

But Tom's interview last year made it clear that they don't get on. It's the senior coaches job to manage relationships with players. Sam clearly didn't do so and I daresay he would have if he didn't want to move him on.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You're right: "a further hint" is an absolute ...

Hawks have gone the quaddie: inexperienced coach, mainly inexperienced assistants, inexperience leadership group, inexperienced players.

Good luck maximising development.

Reference to you posting throughout the thread, keep up

Mainly Inexperienced assistants?

David Hale - 5th Year as an assistant across 2 clubs
Adrian Hickmott - 10+ Year assistant coach across 3 clubs
Andy Collins - Coached Williamstown and Sandringham to Premiership and Coached West Adelaide for 6 years
Brett Ratten - Former Senior Coach at 2 Clubs and Caretaker at North
Littlejohn has been the head of development at Brisbane for the past 6 years
Simpson and Siposs are young coaches

Im good with our group of coaches

Young playing list has inexperience leadership group?'
Wow, what an insight

 

[sr36]

The stupid part of your posts is that if we were even worried about the lack of leadership, we’d be talking about getting JOM back, not Tom.

Either or. I'm just responding to Tom and not JOM because that's who others are bringing up.

No I don't think you are worried about it, as seen by the inexperience all through the club. It's a bit of a hallmark of inexperience that experience is undervalued.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

No I didn't.

But Tom's interview last year made it clear that they don't get on. It's the senior coaches job to manage relationships with players. Sam clearly didn't do so and I daresay he would have if he didn't want to move him on.

Mitchell sooked up at being called out for selfish play within a game

Something that happened regularly at Hawthorn

See the footage from Hodge being mic'd up during an Adelaide game

 

[sr36]

Reference to you posting throughout the thread, keep up

Mainly Inexperienced assistants?

David Hale - 5th Year as an assistant across 2 clubs
Adrian Hickmott - 10+ Year assistant coach across 3 clubs
Andy Collins - Coached Williamstown and Sandringham to Premiership and Coached West Adelaide for 6 years
Brett Ratten - Former Senior Coach at 2 Clubs and Caretaker at North
Littlejohn has been the head of development at Brisbane for the past 6 years
Simpson and Siposs are young coaches

Im good with our group of coaches

Young playing list has inexperience leadership group?'
Wow, what an insight

Hale: Blokes not long retired with 5 years as an assistant are relatively inexperienced.
Hickmott - experienced
Collins: out of the AFL for years
Brett Ratten: experienced, but I assumed that Ratten was the footy boss sitting outside the coaching group? If not who is the footy boss overseeing this group?
Others - relatively inexperienced or inexperienced

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Hale: Blokes not long retired with 5 years as an assistant are relatively inexperienced.
Hickmott - experienced
Collins: out of the AFL for years
Brett Ratten: experienced, but I assumed that Ratten was the footy boss sitting outside the coaching group? If not who is the footy boss overseeing this group?
Others - relatively inexperienced or inexperienced

hale - experienced, relative to what?, 5+ years relative to other coaches in the current landscape is experienced
Ratten - is the head of coaching

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hale: Blokes not long retired with 5 years as an assistant are relatively inexperienced.
Hickmott - experienced
Collins: out of the AFL for years
Brett Ratten: experienced, but I assumed that Ratten was the footy boss sitting outside the coaching group? If not who is the footy boss overseeing this group?
Others - relatively inexperienced or inexperienced

Dig up.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

hale - experienced, relative to what?, 5+ years relative to other coaches in the current landscape is experienced
Ratten - is the head of coaching

I tapped out when I read him disregard Andy Collins’ credentials.

 

[sr36]

I tapped out when I read him disregard Andy Collins’ credentials.

I'm surprised we didn't have to pay a first round pick for our prize recruit Lachie Sullivan. Have you seen his VFL credentials?

Actually your hero Mabior is a better comparison when you look at his previous AFL experience.

Check out the credentials of the twice sacked assistant coach we picked up...

 

[SSSSSS]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm surprised we didn't have to pay a first round pick for our prize recruit Lachie Sullivan. Have you seen his VFL credentials?

Actually your hero Mabior is a better comparison when you look at his previous AFL experience.

Check out the credentials of the twice sacked assistant coach we picked up...

You’re struggling.

 

[boncer34]

I see Hawks fans have gone the classy route of attacking Mitchell's character from behind their anonymous keyboards since the "he wasn't good enough to keep" rhetoric has been exposed for the bullshit we all knew it was.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I see Hawks fans have gone the classy route of attacking Mitchell's character from behind their anonymous keyboards since the "he wasn't good enough to keep" rhetoric has been exposed for the bullshit we all knew it was.

Nah, had issues prior to him leaving

But whatever helps your attempt to be a moral arbiter of Bigfooty

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I see Hawks fans have gone the classy route of attacking Mitchell's character from behind their anonymous keyboards since the "he wasn't good enough to keep" rhetoric has been exposed for the bullshit we all knew it was.

I see Bombers fans have gone the predictable route of sticking up for a player they once claimed was a stat padding non-damaging crab, which can be seen for the bullshit we all know it is.

 

[boncer34]

Nah, had issues prior to him leaving

But whatever helps your attempt to be a moral arbiter of Bigfooty

Of course you did.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I'm surprised we didn't have to pay a first round pick for our prize recruit Lachie Sullivan. Have you seen his VFL credentials?

Actually your hero Mabior is a better comparison when you look at his previous AFL experience.

Check out the credentials of the twice sacked assistant coach we picked up...

Well as an SSP, you wouldn't have to (im aware of the sarcasm, your post is just weird), Hawthorn or Collingwood haven't paid first round picks for VFL players

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Of course you did.

Thanks for rectifying your comment

 

[sr36]

I see Hawks fans have gone the classy route of attacking Mitchell's character from behind their anonymous keyboards since the "he wasn't good enough to keep" rhetoric has been exposed for the bullshit we all knew it was.

It's pretty funny.

Recruited by two of his previous assistant coaches - Bolton and Macrae - who both bang on about group culture and connection continuosly. But apparently they went out and pursued this culture killer. Apparently they must know less about him than the Hawk bigfooty crew ... And then he nearly won a Norm Smith and finished high in a good teams BnF - despite the unanimous agreement that he was washed up - agreement that hasn't been wavered by what's occured since.

You believe what you want to believe - I suppose...

 

[Sirlemsip]

I see Hawks fans have gone the classy route of attacking Mitchell's character from behind their anonymous keyboards since the "he wasn't good enough to keep" rhetoric has been exposed for the bullshit we all knew it was.

There is a massive difference between saying 'he wasn't good enough to keep' in a vacuum of reviewing one player's playing ability, and the impact they have on a young developing team by taking a midfield position/CBAs that should go to players like Will Day, Cam MacKenzie, Josh Ward and others.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's pretty funny.

Recruited by two of his previous assistant coaches - Bolton and Macrae - who both bang on about group culture continuosly. But apparently they went out and pursued this culture killer. And then he nearly won a Norm Smith - despite the unanimous agreement that he was washed up

You believe what you want to believe - I suppose...

You do realise that both things can be true?

FoxFooty quite literally showed a montage of plays early last year from when Tom was at Hawthorn, burning players in better positions and dump-kicking around the corner. This was a constant criticism of him by Hawks fans who watched him each week.

Just because Collingwood saw his inside work and said “we can use that, and we can prosper if he sticks to that role” doesn’t mean he didn’t do what was evident to us while at the Hawks.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

It's pretty funny.

Recruited by two of his previous assistant coaches - Bolton and Macrae - who both bang on about group culture and connection continuosly. But apparently they went out and pursued this culture killer. Apparently they must know less about him than the Hawk bigfooty crew ... And then he nearly won a Norm Smith and finished high in a good teams BnF - despite the unanimous agreement that he was washed up - agreement that hasn't been wavered by what's occured since.

You believe what you want to believe - I suppose...

Bolton coached the midfield at Hawthorn in 2021, who started the process of Mitchell being phased out of a midfield needing rejuvenation

Craig McCrae was the forwards coach

Its laughable how little you know of what occurred during the 1 year they crossed over from a player/coach perspective

 

[boncer34]

It's pretty funny.

Recruited by two of his previous assistant coaches - Bolton and Macrae - who both bang on about group culture and connection continuosly. But apparently they went out and pursued this culture killer. Apparently they must know less about him than the Hawk bigfooty crew ... And then he nearly won a Norm Smith and finished high in a good teams BnF - despite the unanimous agreement that he was washed up - agreement that hasn't been wavered by what's occured since.

You believe what you want to believe - I suppose...

And Hawks fans can't even agree if it was his character or his "burning" of players that was his culture killing attribute.

I guess if you just throw enough shit at a bloke eventually some of it will stick.

 

[boncer34]

There is a massive difference between saying 'he wasn't good enough to keep' in a vacuum of reviewing one player's playing ability, and the impact they have on a young developing team by taking a midfield position/CBAs that should go to players like Will Day, Cam MacKenzie, Josh Ward and others.

Yes.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

And Hawks fans can't even agree if it was his character or his "burning" of players that was his culture killing attribute.

I guess if you just throw enough s**t at a bloke eventually some of it will stick.

“Hawks fans don’t all say the same thing” isn’t the gotcha moment you think it is.

 

[sr36]

Bolton coached the midfield at Hawthorn in 2021, who started the process of Mitchell being phased out of a midfield needing rejuvenation

Craig McCrae was the forwards coach

Its laughable how little you know of what occurred during the 1 year they crossed over from a player/coach perspective

I don't know what point you think you're making, but you're right I didn't realise that Bolton was his direct line manager, but I do know that just makes the uncoachable culture killer calls even more ridiculous.