How many from your team can walk in to any best 23

[Elixuh]

Sorry McKenna is absolutely far off. For starters, he wasn’t even in your own Round 1 best 23 until Cameron was a late out, and that was a 23 without two clear best team defenders in Doedee and Coleman already missing through injury.

McKenna is great depth but nowhere near this conversation.

Unfortunately, Brisbane has the best talent in the league. Some of our fringe players would walk in to any best 23. They'd certainly get a game at the Pies.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Unfortunately, Brisbane has the best talent in the league. Some of our fringe players would walk in to any best 23. They'd certainly get a game at the Pies.

If they can’t walk into their own best 23 by definition they can’t walk into every best 23.

McKenna wouldn’t make our best defensive setup. Might be next solider in but unless he’s developed a capacity to play full back on the Curnows and Hogans of the world there’s no spot for him at the Pies.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

For North, I would fairly confidently say the following.

Xerri
Larkey
LDU
Sheezel

Happy to be corrected

 

[Iridescence]

Rankine
Dawson
Thilthorpe
Fogarty

By year's end, Jake Soligo.

 

[iameviljez]

So he is rubbish but kicked 42 goals last year

... and got the arse from the worst forward line in the comp.

I didn't say he was rubbish, by the way. I said he wouldn't walk into every 22 in the comp, that's a different story. If he were good enough to walk into any side, he wouldn't have slid to p53 at the trade table.

 

[PhatBoy]

Struggle to think of a side loaded for small forwards enough to keep Watson out. Even if it requires a tweak of structure he’s certainly one name IMO.

Barrass too walks into any defensive set up in the league.

Not because he’s from Hawthorn but he’s not getting a game for us yet. He may soon enough.

We have two key forwards who produce more goals than him on a reasonably regular basis, another mid sized forward who does, and a genuine small forward who does, plus Miers and Close who between them last year gave us 96 goals/assists and get lots more ball, and Miers tackles a heap more.
Then you have Ollie Dempsey who gave us 46 goals/assists last year and 18 touches a game.

Watson basically goes at a touch over 2 goals/assists per game which is in itself better than a few of our guys. But he’s a fair way off Stengle who would be the logical one to replace as far as his actual role goes (Stengle is about 2.8) and he simply doesn’t get enough ball etc to fill the other guys’ roles.

He’d have been a great Gary Rohan replacement but we don’t really need one. The 8 guys that rotate through there at the moment are a very good core group (Cameron, Neale, Dangerfield, Henry, Stengle, Close, Miers, Dempsey).

Watson is a good player and he’s obviously gonna keep getting better, as are a lot of his young teammates. I don’t think our forward line is one that he’d crack, though.

 

[Golumless]

Any team?

Rankine
Dawson
Thilthorpe
Michaelanny
Fogarty
Rachele
Neal Bullen
Keays

The rest probably get into most, but those seven would get into any side at the moment. Most of it is just for tactical reasons, for instance with Rachele, you're not leaving out a 30+ goalscorer with good ball skills in the seconds. Keays/Neal Bullen are in a league where you need to be a strong contested and pressure team in your forward line and they are two of the best at it which means you're probably throwing them in your bottom slots over a kid at worse. Michaelanny is someone you can match up on smalls and offer a bit of intercepting power and good ball skills, you're probably finding a way to fit him into your defense. Fogarty, you're not leaving a 40 goal forward with good ball skills out, even if it just means you're using him as a decoy to two gun key forwards.

For pure star power, you're throwing Rankine/Dawson/Thilthorpe in. Especially Rankine/Dawson as they're dual position players.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

This is either anti-fan behaviour or proof I post too much

 

[L_W_P]

Bevo might disagree on that one.

He might not be a starting mid under Bevo but he'd be in the 23 for sure.

 

[hawkman]

Struggle to think of a side loaded for small forwards enough to keep Watson out. Even if it requires a tweak of structure he’s certainly one name IMO.

Barrass too walks into any defensive set up in the league.

Does Barrass walk into the GWS team? I'm not sure he does

 

[Sentinel]

He might not be a starting mid under Bevo but he'd be in the 23 for sure.

Other than in rounds 20 and 21 last year.

 

[KissKiss]

Struggle to think of a side loaded for small forwards enough to keep Watson out. Even if it requires a tweak of structure he’s certainly one name IMO.

Barrass too walks into any defensive set up in the league.

For Watson Im not sure he starts at:

• Geelong - they are pretty stacked for small forwards. Not sure he gets in front of Stengle, Miers and Close
• Maybe not Brisbane - Cameron, Lohman, Ah Chee, Bailey and Rayner is tough to push ahead (and that's with McCarthy now gone with another ACL)

Question comes up on whether he can be flexible to play off the bench/sub or can he only play small forward.

I think Ive come around on guys like Barrass, Battle and Moore. I think enough of them are good enough that they could push out the third tall (or shift things around) at most clubs. Are they better than Idun or Buckley at GWS or Payne and Lester at the Lions? I think they do make it.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

For Watson Im not sure he starts at:

• Geelong - they are pretty stacked for small forwards. Not sure he gets in front of Stengle, Miers and Close
• Maybe not Brisbane - Cameron, Lohman, Ah Chee, Bailey and Rayner is tough to push ahead (and that's with McCarthy now gone with another ACL)

Question comes up on whether he can be flexible to play off the bench/sub or can he only play small forward.

I think Ive come around on guys like Barrass, Battle and Moore. I think enough of them are good enough that they could push out the third tall (or shift things around) at most clubs. Are they better than Idun or Buckley at GWS or Payne and Lester at the Lions? I think they do make it.

Funnily enough the two sides you’ve come up with are the same two I think are like ball calls, so agree!

 

[stallon]

Disagree, the days of good teams taking two good primary ruckmen are gone. Second-stringers are now far more likely to be someone like MacLean, Blicavs, Mason Cox, Darcy, etc.

if a ruckman can be a very good forward, like Marshall can then it is very doable, especially at a cub that doesnt have very good KPFs

 

[JHF1870]

I think it was a poor set of metrics for Lewis to bring up. BAsically set it to suit his narrative against Carlton.

If we're being strict, most teams wouldn't have over 8 players that would 100% get a game at EVERY club.

We've only really got three that would be a straight up start at all clubs.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

if a ruckman can be a very good forward, like Marshall can then it is very doable, especially at a cub that doesnt have very good KPFs

It’s funny. There should be a very clear standard setter in Carlton. If you can’t ruck better than TDK, or provide more value as a genuine forward than Silvagni/Kemp (behind Curnow/McKay), then you shouldn’t be in, and thus don’t meet the criteria for this thread.

Unfortunately, in reality Crazy Vossy prefers (at least on ‘24 evidence) to sacrifice TDK forward and play with a two ruck structure, so instead the standard becomes “are you a better ruck than Pittonet”, which is a standard most clubs would have an option that clears comfortably.

 

[TheKanga]

LDU
Sheezel
Wardlaw
Larkey
Xerri
Powell

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

LDU
Sheezel
Wardlaw
Larkey
Xerri
Powell

Wardlaw and Powell don't play in collingwood's 23

 

[stallon]

It’s funny. There should be a very clear standard setter in Carlton. If you can’t ruck better than TDK, or provide more value as a genuine forward than Silvagni/Kemp (behind Curnow/McKay), then you shouldn’t be in, and thus don’t meet the criteria for this thread.

Unfortunately, in reality Crazy Vossy prefers (at least on ‘24 evidence) to sacrifice TDK forward and play with a two ruck structure, so instead the standard becomes “are you a better ruck than Pittonet”, which is a standard most clubs would have an option that clears comfortably.

I think Voss wants the standard 2 KPF + a ruck/fwd structure in his front half, but he doesnt have the personnel to do it lol.
TDK is better forward and ruck chop out than those blokes you mentioned AND hes a better ruck than Pittonet.
He gets stuck doing weird things with TDK, similar to what Freo do with Jackson when Darcy is out lol

 

[stallon]

Wardlaw and Powell don't play in collingwood's 23

Mate you good do you think the Pies midfield is? Its literally just Daicos and a bunch of plodders whose only job is to make space for Daicos

I guarantee you that your club would take any of those 2 you just mentioned, or Durham in a heartbeat over Long or Sidebottom or perryman or whoever else you have

 

[iameviljez]

if a ruckman can be a very good forward, like Marshall can then it is very doable, especially at a cub that doesnt have very good KPFs

The last ruckman I can think of who was also a very good forward was Salmon, also Peter Everitt in his StKilda days. Perhaps David Hale at a pinch.

The best 23 he doesn't get into... If Carlton were to pick TDK over Marshall, then he doesn't get in there IMO. The same goes with the Dogs and Tim English.

 

[stallon]

The last ruckman I can think of who was also a very good forward was Salmon, also Peter Everitt in his StKilda days. Perhaps David Hale at a pinch.

The best 23 he doesn't get into... If Carlton were to pick TDK over Marshall, then he doesn't get in there IMO. The same goes with the Dogs and Tim English.

Marshall is legit a very good forward, he 100% could play there in a decent side

Remember that most teams dont have 2 very good KPFs(theres like 3 clubs maybe who do), and even fewer have good ruck/fwds as well
The idea is not that he has to be a coleman contender.

At the Dogs Marshall just pushes out English lol, the forward line doesnt even come into it.

Blues would take Marshall as either the main ruck with TDK to be the ruck/fwd, or theyd pick TDk as the main ruck with Marshall up forward.
Marshall if far better than their other 3rd tall/backup ruck options or Pittonet.

 

[iameviljez]

Remember that most teams dont have 2 very good KPFs(theres like 3 clubs maybe who do), and even fewer have good ruck/fwds as well

Yeah, for two good key forwards, it's only the Dogs, Carlton, Adelaide, that's it. Though the Dogs have some issues of their own with key forwards...

 

[stallon]

Yeah, for two good key forwards, it's only the Dogs, Carlton, Adelaide, that's it. Though the Dogs have some issues of their own with key forwards...

and west coast*, I originally missed Carlton, forgot about them

But my point stands anyway, most clubs can fit any half decent player.
The bottom few players in any teams best 23 would be out in a heartbeat for at least half a dozen players from any other club.

 

[PhatBoy]

The last ruckman I can think of who was also a very good forward was Salmon, also Peter Everitt in his StKilda days. Perhaps David Hale at a pinch.

The best 23 he doesn't get into... If Carlton were to pick TDK over Marshall, then he doesn't get in there IMO. The same goes with the Dogs and Tim English.

Ottens at Richmond had one season where he averaged nearly 2 goals a game and about 15 hit outs which I will assume was his AA season but he never hit those heights as a forward again.