Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Gralin]

roads are apparently overloaded because people are avoiding public transport as they dont want to be in enclosed spaces with lots of people.

Yeah the "peak hour" train in during the week my carriage didn't run out of seats but was full enough that i had a rando sit next to me

 

[kalex6251]

Which is fairly much what I posted. As you say it won't be just the call of the workforce. I know of a prominent architectural firm where the staff hasn't been given a choice. Others where remote work in some circumstances is less efficacious - law firms for example where face-to-face has clear advantages. And I can't see the courts sitting remotely for longer than they have.

It's true the CBD will never be the same.

its possible corporate businesses will abandon cbd's in favour of areas that provide staff with greater amenity and wellbeing benefits - and at a fraction of the cost (think suburban hubs and in some cases regional towns ...... the rule book has seriously been thrown out the window now and the power and prestige of doing business in a cbd head office probably doesnt hold the same cache it once did) .... cremorne in inner city melbourne is an indication of what this change could look like

to adjust, cbd's may need to redefine themselves as hi-density residential and entertainment centres .... dining and entertainment all easily accessible by foot from your front door ..... no car required

 

[Proper Gander]

There are many good reasons to move from centralised cbd work to wfh or hybrid. It will mean some pain for cbd retail and hospitality but the benefits of decentralised work are such that it would be stupid not to move in that direction.

I work in the CBD for a govt. agency (federal). The salary from these jobs is fine, but nowhere even close to adequate to consider buying anywhere inner Melbourne to be close to work. As I see my colleagues get engaged, look to taking a mortgage etc. they can only look in places further than an hour by public transport away from the CBD. So they add more than 2 hours per day in lost travel time.

WFH over the past couple of years has made work flexibly much more possible. Lots of people structure their work day to allow picking up kids from school or childcare which was impossible previously. Not to mention the relief for everyone from peak hour travel. I don’t think anyone would argue that raising a family is a lot easier without losing 2 plus dead time hours in travel for 5 days a week.

My office has settled for hybrid WFH, where we do 2 or 3 days in office and the rest at home. This has meant that on the expiry of the previous lease they were able to move premises to somewhere smaller, and much much better. People on the floor no longer have an assigned permanent desk but dock their laptop in more general work areas. It’s not cramped now and meeting space which was inadequate before is excellent in the new office. Importantly, the cost of the lease is significantly reduced, which is relevant given the taxpayer stumps up for government on-costs.

It is sad for businesses that are struggling under the new conditions but it is so much better for workers and families to have the more flexible arrangements. The retail, hospitality and social offerings of the city will have to find other ways to function rather than expect that employers must corral their workforce in one area to support the sale of more coffee and bagels.

 

[Gralin]

Might make the local cafes and shops more viable

 

[Proper Gander]

Might make the local cafes and shops more viable

I reckon it does. My local area seems much more vibrant as people shop, dine and drink within walking distance. Fewer cars. Fewer piss-artists behind the wheel. And I can get life admin tasks like shopping and washing done within the day and better enjoy the weekend. Less congestion at the market as people can spread out their shopping times. We no longer take the car. I can shop a couple of times on foot with one of those rollers and get some exercise at the same time. Better for the environment.

Less stress overall. Productivity in my agency is streets better with staff happier and more engaged with less gas guzzling.

The other reality is that the employers who insist on full 5 day office will lose workers as more opportunities are opening up that permit flexibility

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

There are many good reasons to move from centralised cbd work to wfh or hybrid. It will mean some pain for cbd retail and hospitality but the benefits of decentralised work are such that it would be stupid not to move in that direction.

I work in the CBD for a govt. agency (federal). The salary from these jobs is fine, but nowhere even close to adequate to consider buying anywhere inner Melbourne to be close to work. As I see my colleagues get engaged, look to taking a mortgage etc. they can only look in places further than an hour by public transport away from the CBD. So they add more than 2 hours per day in lost travel time.

WFH over the past couple of years has made work flexibly much more possible. Lots of people structure their work day to allow picking up kids from school or childcare which was impossible previously. Not to mention the relief for everyone from peak hour travel. I don’t think anyone would argue that raising a family is a lot easier without losing 2 plus dead time hours in travel for 5 days a week.

This is where housing affordability bites on the arse.
Half a mill for a shoebox in Pakenham that's an hour and a half away is the best some can afford on thier office wages.



I find the whole people have to go in to support the restraunts, bars and cafes funny.

If the last two years have taught me anything is how much they charge.
You're easily blowing 50 bucks at a pub for a meal and a pint of beer.
I've decided to cut back on going and I say that as someone who has had a pay rise.

 

[pazza]

Returned to Lygon Street Friday night. Only a few closed restaurants but most open in full.

 

[Pessimistic]

Which is fairly much what I posted. As you say it won't be just the call of the workforce. I know of a prominent architectural firm where the staff hasn't been given a choice. Others where remote work in some circumstances is less efficacious - law firms for example where face-to-face has clear advantages. And I can't see the courts sitting remotely for longer than they have.

It's true the CBD will never be the same.

It was busting at the seams pre covid. This way the city will support a much larger population in future, but without the constraints and inneficencies of everything being cbd based, and mass daily migration

The best thing is the pandemic has shown us the sky doesn’t fall in. Now we need to continue to put people before speculators profits.
People in dog box apartments couldn’t work from home sot there’s that too

 

[Sttew]

Episode 97. Further evidence of lies and wasted money.

The government told us new FRV industrial agreement would cost taxpayers $160 Million over 4 years. Data released to the Age under FOI suggests the cost was a lot more. A leaked CFA document from 2016 suggested the figure was likely to be $663M, and this now is looking more realistic than $160M.

Here’s one reason why - the new FRV has a disproportionate number of chiefs and commanders compared to Police and the fire services in NSW.

Under the agreement senior FRV officials will receive private cars. That’s fine. But in Victoria FRV has 57 assistant commissioners, compared to 6 in NSW or 16 at Victoria Police. FRV has 237 commanders compared to 45 in NSW and 13 in VicPol.

Why does FRV need so many “chiefs”? And why did the MFB deplete all of its cash reserves in implementing the new Agreement?

Cue the LOL and “nothing to see” responses

 

[Gralin]

Episode 97. Further evidence of lies and wasted money.

The government told us new FRV industrial agreement would cost taxpayers $160 Million over 4 years. Data released to the Age under FOI suggests the cost was a lot more. A leaked CFA document from 2016 suggested the figure was likely to be $663M, and this now is looking more realistic than $160M.

Here’s one reason why - the new FRV has a disproportionate number of chiefs and commanders compared to Police and the fire services in NSW.

Under the agreement senior FRV officials will receive private cars. That’s fine. But in Victoria FRV has 57 assistant commissioners, compared to 6 in NSW or 16 at Victoria Police. FRV has 237 commanders compared to 45 in NSW and 13 in VicPol.

Why does FRV need so many “chiefs”? And why did the MFB deplete all of its cash reserves in implementing the new Agreement?

Cue the LOL and “nothing to see” responses

why are you comparing fire services to vicpol

NSW Fire services makes sense but then you need to look at how they are setup, raw numbers like that mean nothing without context

I'm interested in the context btw, FRV vs CFA is an ongoing issue for all Victorian's but its not like you can say well the cops have xx people with this job title so the firebrigade should have the same

 

[Sttew]

why are you comparing fire services to vicpol

NSW Fire services makes sense but then you need to look at how they are setup, raw numbers like that mean nothing without context

I'm interested in the context btw, FRV vs CFA is an ongoing issue for all Victorian's but its not like you can say well the cops have xx people with this job title so the firebrigade should have the same

Point taken re VicPol. The Age compared the 2. VicPol does have more than twice the number of Operational employees as FRV. Assistant commissioners are 2IC’s to the Commissioner and are typically responsible for business units within the organisation. FRV has 57 business units? What could they possibly be?

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

its possible corporate businesses will abandon cbd's in favour of areas that provide staff with greater amenity and wellbeing benefits - and at a fraction of the cost (think suburban hubs and in some cases regional towns ...... the rule book has seriously been thrown out the window now and the power and prestige of doing business in a cbd head office probably doesnt hold the same cache it once did) .... cremorne in inner city melbourne is an indication of what this change could look like

to adjust, cbd's may need to redefine themselves as hi-density residential and entertainment centres .... dining and entertainment all easily accessible by foot from your front door ..... no car required

Metro Melbourne offices aren't filling with staff as quickly as anticipated either. It's not only the CBD. My impression is the movers-n-shakers are assessing what the workplace will look like in the future. That may well mean cutting back on office space and using what you retain more expeditiously. Think one of the impediments to more remote work is mahogany row being comfortable peeps aren't skiving.

 

[Proper Gander]

Metro Melbourne offices aren't filling with staff as quickly as anticipated either. It's not only the CBD. My impression is the movers-n-shakers are assessing what the workplace will look like in the future. That may well mean cutting back on office space and using what you retain more expeditiously. Think one of the impediments to more remote work is mahogany row being comfortable peeps aren't skiving.

For office work, where you generally log into a network, the skiving issue is not problematic. And entirely limited to the small percentage of people who try to skive regardless.

Tradition has meant that the most senior managers favour line-of-sight management because they retain a fear (based on pessimistic guesswork) that everyone will game the system if not visible when working.

Me and all of my colleagues have deliverables and performance indicators. It becomes pretty apparent I should think where these things are no longer being met. Yet the lockdown changed nothing and, if anything, productivity in meeting goals was improved.

If there is a concern with an individual’s work behaviours and achievements, a networked office makes it easily possible to monitor logins and activity.

I manage a smallish team myself and it has worked fine through the lockdowns. The only small drawback is that because we draw from very large data warehouses the download speed is slower from home. But efforts were made to improve home office capacity which is great, plus the more recent 2 days in, 3 WFH has solved the problem as we structure the week to do tasks requiring more capacity on office working days.

It’s much better as a manager too. If someone has a local doctor’s appointment, they just let me know, start a bit earlier and slip out for the hour or two required. With an office work setup, they would be out of action for the day, or a half day for this type of thing.

 

[adogsfan5]

We should probably sort this one out before “sexy” marvel stadium scoreboards and windmills.

Twelve Victorians die, including four children, after waiting for triple-zero to pick up

Leaked official data suggests ongoing and systemic failings within the ambulance division emergency response call authority.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Crankyhawk]

We should probably sort this one out before “sexy” marvel stadium scoreboards and windmills.

Twelve Victorians die, including four children, after waiting for triple-zero to pick up

Leaked official data suggests ongoing and systemic failings within the ambulance division emergency response call authority.

www.theage.com.au

True
though for context I think the 14 year old case happened on a thunderstorm asthma day iirc (and during October COVID case rise)
and the Telstra person talking to the husband of the brain tumor patient isn't "permitted" to tell someone they are better off trying to make own way to hospital due to I think policy/ procedure (because can expose to litigation)

 

[GreyWind]

True
though for context I think the 14 year old case happened on a thunderstorm asthma day iirc (and during October COVID case rise)
and the Telstra person talking to the husband of the brain tumor patient isn't "permitted" to tell someone they are better off trying to make own way to hospital due to I think policy/ procedure (because can expose to litigation)

The whole system needs a re-work and a lot of it comes down to a fear of litigation that's why it's so clunky and inefficient.

 

[The Punter]

I would make two points about CBD revival:

• It only happened post-1992 with direct government intervention and support
• If you did want to make CBD revival a focus, a outer-suburban rail link creating activity centres 10-20km from the CBD is going to make it much, much tougher.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I would make two points about CBD revival:

• It only happened post-1992 with direct government intervention and support
• If you did want to make CBD revival a focus, a outer-suburban rail link creating activity centres 10-20km from the CBD is going to make it much, much tougher.

Village idiot Rita Panahi is all over it today.

Bike paths will destroy the CBD she says.

 

[Gralin]

I would make two points about CBD revival:

• It only happened post-1992 with direct government intervention and support
• If you did want to make CBD revival a focus, a outer-suburban rail link creating activity centres 10-20km from the CBD is going to make it much, much tougher.

Are you against the outer rail link or just making a comment that it's the kind of policy change that if cancelled would indicate trying to push workers back into the city?

 

[The Punter]

Are you against the outer rail link or just making a comment that it's the kind of policy change that if cancelled would indicate trying to push workers back into the city?

I'm certainly not sold on it considering the reported cost and the reported process that took place that led to its announcement. I can, however, appreciate it would be a "if you build it, they will come" project, which I also consider the original Eastern Freeway was, and the East West Link would be.

But the project as currently conceived would pull people away from the CBD rather than pull people back into it. I think we can all agree that the CBD will never be the same, but in 2019 it wasn't like it was in 1985 or even 2005. We need some planning and some foresight into what should and will become of the CBD, and in my opinion, that will require government intervention and leadership. And I'm not sure the Andrews Government has CBD revival as a priority right now.

 

[Gralin]

I'm certainly not sold on it considering the reported cost and the reported process that took place that led to its announcement. I can, however, appreciate it would be a "if you build it, they will come" project, which I also consider the original Eastern Freeway was, and the East West Link would be.

But the project as currently conceived would pull people away from the CBD rather than pull people back into it. I think we can all agree that the CBD will never be the same, but in 2019 it wasn't like it was in 1985 or even 2005. We need some planning and some foresight into what should and will become of the CBD, and in my opinion, that will require government intervention and leadership. And I'm not sure the Andrews Government has CBD revival as a priority right now.

No doubting the change in landscape from when the project was announced.

Im a big believer in needing much better public transport infrastructure than we have currently, but also think we need better regional infrastructure as alternatives to an ever growing Melbourne sprawl

 

[The Punter]

I use public transport regularly as a way to get into Melbourne from my regional Victoria home. I used public transport when I lived in Melbourne. And there is certainly also a "if you build it, they will come" element to major public transport projects.

But there are cultural issues at play with why people choose to drive over catch the train or a tram or a bus, and public transport advocates need better ways to get people out of cars than punitive measures targeting people who people who do drive, and the "eat your vegetables" approach which seems to be the only rhetorical approach in use.

 

[Gralin]

I use public transport regularly as a way to get into Melbourne from my regional Victoria home. I used public transport when I lived in Melbourne. And there is certainly also a "if you build it, they will come" element to major public transport projects.

But there are cultural issues at play with why people choose to drive over catch the train or a tram or a bus, and public transport advocates need better ways to get people out of cars than punitive measures targeting people who people who do drive, and the "eat your vegetables" approach which seems to be the only rhetorical approach in use.

Convenient, cheap, safe, quick and frequent

We don't hit all of those currently

Not consistently or across the board

 

[Sttew]

Village idiot Rita Panahi is all over it today.

Bike paths will destroy the CBD she says.

This is a City of Melbourne issue. Have you driven along William Street lately? It’s a dogs breakfast. If someone is turning left all cars have to wait until the car has turned left. Meanwhile the number of cyclists in the City has not risen and is reportedly down.

 

[The Punter]

To be fair, very few people are cycling to their manufacturing job in the outer suburbs.

The cyclists would make up a fair proportion of those who can work from home with no problem. I'm not surprised numbers are down.