Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Mofra]

Realistically we need a Royal Commission into the handling of Covid. Not to point fingers but to get a factual account of what happened, what worked and what didn't.
It has to be something where someone can't do thier best Sergeant Schultz impression.

Is there anyone who refused to give evidence in the last review that an RC would capture this time?

It merely compels testimony but doesn't prohibit "I can't recall" responses.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Is there anyone who refused to give evidence in the last review that an RC would capture this time?

It merely compels testimony but doesn't prohibit "I can't recall" responses.

Good question. I would assume the RC can compel someone to produce documentation.

 

[evolved2]

Inane chat about 15 minute cities and Senator Babet distract us from talking about the Premier, his attacks in IBAC and his political COVID-polling.

That succintly sums up this entire thread.

 

[Crankyhawk]

To paraphrase - Andrews has probably done something he should not have done, opposition useless, therefore Andrews' behaviour doesn't matter.

Not quite, more that opposition useless and don’t know how to hold him to account, therefore (effectively) behaviour doesn’t matter. It doesn’t help when idiot media focus on the wrong things too (I mentioned earlier the presser during the election at northern hospital instead of a follow up on a sketchy piece about northern hospital ED in crisis published in herald sun they chose to crap on about some dumb**** bike accident from 10 or 20 years ago like who gives a shit)

 

[Saint]

Out of spite?

No, there were more restrictions and rules because a section of the population, egged on by the media and Opposition, were promoting ignoring "advice".

When so many people are ignoring "advice", the "advice" has to become rules with consequences.

That's the thing about regulations, most of them are for safety reasons. When a portion of the population won't take safety precautions which affect others, then rules have to be made. This applies to almost every road safety law we have. We wouldn't have to have seatbelt laws if everyone could be trusted to wear their seatbelt, but when they were introduced a portion of the population simply refused.

 

[Saint]

The Dictator Dan stuff should never have happened, but none is more unable to resist alliteration than an opposition MP. The accusation contained herein is simply untrue.

Suggesting restrictions were inappropriate, unfair or unlikely to be followed is not the same as promoting non-compliance. It's a neat thing to believe when you are trying to maintain all the problems with how the government handled the pandemic were caused by someone outside the government. This is also simply untrue. Also, if the opposition sees the government doing something it does not believe should be done, they are duty bound to air that criticism and hold the government to account. Resoundingly the Victorian people endorsed the Andrews Government in 2022. So as a political and administrative process, the system worked. Plenty of information was in the public domain about the Andrews Government's relationship with integrity, transparency, and our political institutions, but Victorians have made their choice and made it clearly.

If you think the media and opposition had no influence over how the Victorian Govt handled the lockdown then I can't explain how to help you.

The Opposition are duty bound to air criticism which they think will benefit their constituents, not air anything which comes into their heads which makes the Govt look bad even if it endangers their constituents. Questioning mask mandates was basically a daily occurrence. Masks work at reducing the spread. I still don't think I've heard a LNP MP say those words, let alone promote the message to, you know, actually protect the health of their constituents.

Contrasting NSW and Victoria lockdown coverage reveals much about the politics of COVID – and the media

It’s not as simple as NSW is good and Victoria is bad, but it’s not a long way from it, either.

theconversation.com

 

[adogsfan5]

If you think the media and opposition had no influence over how the Victorian Govt handled the lockdown then I can't explain how to help you.

The Opposition are duty bound to air criticism which they think will benefit their constituents, not air anything which comes into their heads which makes the Govt look bad even if it endangers their constituents. Questioning mask mandates was basically a daily occurrence. Masks work at reducing the spread. I still don't think I've heard a LNP MP say those words, let alone promote the message to, you know, actually protect the health of their constituents.

Contrasting NSW and Victoria lockdown coverage reveals much about the politics of COVID – and the media

It’s not as simple as NSW is good and Victoria is bad, but it’s not a long way from it, either.

theconversation.com

The group of people you keep defending, have a look at what they are in the news for again this week, and then ask yourself again if you think those focus groups weren’t purely to check up on popularity at the time of lockdowns.

 

[Gough]

In breaking news politicians use focus groups.

 

[The Punter]

If you think the media and opposition had no influence over how the Victorian Govt handled the lockdown then I can't explain how to help you.

The Opposition are duty bound to air criticism which they think will benefit their constituents, not air anything which comes into their heads which makes the Govt look bad even if it endangers their constituents. Questioning mask mandates was basically a daily occurrence. Masks work at reducing the spread. I still don't think I've heard a LNP MP say those words, let alone promote the message to, you know, actually protect the health of their constituents.

Contrasting NSW and Victoria lockdown coverage reveals much about the politics of COVID – and the media

It’s not as simple as NSW is good and Victoria is bad, but it’s not a long way from it, either.

theconversation.com

I worked for an MP who promoted mask wearing in 2020 during the height of the pandemic. She lost and took down all her social media presence, otherwise I would link that for you.

The influence of the media in Victoria is overplayed, and one only has to look at recent election results to prove this. The left get to hit the right over the head with this media stuff, so at worst, the benefits are shared. I'm not going to defend the Murdoch press, especially their Sydney tabloid.

For the mistakes made by the opposition during the pandemic, one only has to google the names "Tim Smith" and "Bernie Finn". There were of course others, such as the flags at parliament house. Overreach is difficult to resist but in this correspondent's opinion, resisted it must be.

 

[adogsfan5]

In breaking news politicians use focus groups.

If you don’t know the context and the previous conversations had, then why are you butting in with a smartass comment?

 

[Gough]

If you don’t know the context and the previous conversations had, then why are you butting in with a smartass comment?

I tend to think we're seeing the post election temper tantrum right now and it's taking the form of whining about people not paying attention to all the terrible things that Dan Andrews has done.

 

[adogsfan5]

I tend to think we're seeing the post election temper tantrum right now and it's taking the form of whining about people not paying attention to all the terrible things that Dan Andrews has done.

Ha, no you don’t.

Straight out of the playbook. Not surprising.

 

[Gough]

Ha, no you don’t.

Straight out of the playbook. Not surprising.

What playbook would that be mate?

 

[boncer34]

I tend to think we're seeing the post election temper tantrum right now and it's taking the form of whining about people not paying attention to all the terrible things that Dan Andrews has done.

Is it as good as your temper tantrum post 2019?

 

[Gough]

Is it as good as your temper tantrum post 2019?

Having had the benefit of watching Morrison and his merry band of f***wits try to govern for three years I think you can concede my concerns weren't unreasonable.

 

[adogsfan5]

What playbook would that be mate?

Well first of all, he’s clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons re IBAC. Let’s hope you can agree with at least that point.

Secondly, there are posters discussing the tax payer money used during the pandemic for focus groups and what they were intended for.

Now, in my opinion, I don’t see anything wrong with people discussing those two points. Seems fairly valid, seeing as though we are in the correct thread for it and it is fresh news.

So when it comes your post, you have either posted it to try and get a reaction out of people or it was posted to try and make any critic become somewhat irrelevant because you don’t like the content. And it occurs a lot (not just from you).

 

[Gough]

Well first of all, he’s clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons re IBAC. Let’s hope you can agree with at least that point.

Secondly, there are posters discussing the tax payer money used during the pandemic for focus groups and what they were intended for.

Now, in my opinion, I don’t see anything wrong with people discussing those two points. Seems fairly valid, seeing as though we are in the correct thread for it and it is fresh news.

So when it comes your post, you have either posted it to try and get a reaction out of people or it was posted to try and make any critic become somewhat irrelevant because you don’t like the content. And it occurs a lot (not just from you).

Good thing we have fearless truth tellers like your good self to help me see the error of my ways.

 

[boncer34]

Having had the benefit of watching Morrison and his merry band of f***wits try to govern for three years I think you can concede my concerns weren't unreasonable.

Just maybe people in tantrum houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Saint]

Well first of all, he’s clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons re IBAC. Let’s hope you can agree with at least that point.

Secondly, there are posters discussing the tax payer money used during the pandemic for focus groups and what they were intended for.

Now, in my opinion, I don’t see anything wrong with people discussing those two points. Seems fairly valid, seeing as though we are in the correct thread for it and it is fresh news.

So when it comes your post, you have either posted it to try and get a reaction out of people or it was posted to try and make any critic become somewhat irrelevant because you don’t like the content. And it occurs a lot (not just from you).

"He's" clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons?

That's you taking the Murdoch line.

What the IBAC commissioner said is that the IOC (not Andrews, but appointed oversight committee of ALP MPs as well as Greens and LNP) he thought were undermining him by getting an independent review. His conclusion, that this was political, is not obvious. Nor does any of this implicate Andrews in any way.

One Professor even proposed that the opposition should be the chair of the IOC so that it's clear of politics.

If you can put your hand on your heart and say that if the current LNP MLAs or MLCs were overseeing IBAC that they wouldn't make it political, then I don't think you've been paying attention for 10 years.

For what it's worth, I think the IOC should have an independent balance, perhaps even get the Governor involved, they've got bugger-all to do. But at the same time, 2/3 of the parliament is ALP, so maintaining an ALP chair is arguably more democratic (that's Andrews' line).

Also, there's no suggestion that any IBAC investigations were influenced nor that Andrews was implicated in any of it. It's a HUGE bow to draw to draw a direct line between an independent review of IBAC's performance and the Premier and say it implicates him in corruption.

If I really thought the Murdoch press were interested in corruption, you would think that $30m to Hillsong or $300m for airport land, or Ventnor or Fishermans Bend would have got more of a run.

 

[adogsfan5]

"He's" clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons?

That's you taking the Murdoch line.

What the IBAC commissioner said is that the IOC (not Andrews, but appointed oversight committee of ALP MPs as well as Greens and LNP) he thought were undermining him by getting an independent review. His conclusion, that this was political, is not obvious. Nor does any of this implicate Andrews in any way.

One Professor even proposed that the opposition should be the chair of the IOC so that it's clear of politics.

If you can put your hand on your heart and say that if the current LNP MLAs or MLCs were overseeing IBAC that they wouldn't make it political, then I don't think you've been paying attention for 10 years.

For what it's worth, I think the IOC should have an independent balance, perhaps even get the Governor involved, they've got bugger-all to do. But at the same time, 2/3 of the parliament is ALP, so maintaining an ALP chair is arguably more democratic (that's Andrews' line).

Also, there's no suggestion that any IBAC investigations were influenced nor that Andrews was implicated in any of it. It's a HUGE bow to draw to draw a direct line between an independent review of IBAC's performance and the Premier and say it implicates him in corruption.

If I really thought the Murdoch press were interested in corruption, you would think that $30m to Hillsong or $300m for airport land, or Ventnor or Fishermans Bend would have got more of a run.

Murdoch has taken over the ABC as well now?

The funniest part is, if my government was being accused of corruption by the IBAC chief, that letter would probably be the first thing I read. But instead we got:

“someone who used to do a job [who has] written a letter that apparently says a whole bunch of stuff".

Calls for overhaul of IBAC oversight committee as Andrews denies allegations of government interference

Integrity experts call for an overhaul of Victoria's Integrity and Oversight Committee, following allegations the Andrews government interfered with the state's anti-corruption watchdog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[kalex6251]

If you can put your hand on your heart and say that if the current LNP MLAs or MLCs were overseeing IBAC that they wouldn't make it political, then I don't think you've been paying attention for 10 years.

the performative outrage by the opposition in parliament yesterday answers this very clearly

 

[The Punter]

One is disingenuous at best if attacking one party being performative in parliament while ignoring the other side being performative as well.

Kim Wells is the Deputy IOC Chair and would do a fine job as chair while keeping it non-political.

 

[Saint]

Murdoch has taken over the ABC as well now?

The funniest part is, if my government was being accused of corruption by the IBAC chief, that letter would probably be the first thing I read. But instead we got:

“someone who used to do a job [who has] written a letter that apparently says a whole bunch of stuff".

Calls for overhaul of IBAC oversight committee as Andrews denies allegations of government interference

Integrity experts call for an overhaul of Victoria's Integrity and Oversight Committee, following allegations the Andrews government interfered with the state's anti-corruption watchdog.

www.abc.net.au

Did you read the article?

Andrews rejected the ex-IBAC commissioners idea of having the IOC be run by the opposition. The ABC was reporting Andrews' response to the long-bow drawn by the News Corp journo.

This main part of the story is about the IOC and the setup of IBAC oversight. Guess who set up IBAC? Ted Baillieu. And he was the one who set it up to be overseen by the Government of the day.

So, out of the handful of things the Baillieu Govt did, one is now being criticised, Andrews is defending the Baillieu setup and people are saying it's proof that Andrews is not transparent and that it just so happens that the IOC should be led by the LNP again, who just happen to be in opposition now. I'm guessing when/if they get back in Govt, they'd change it back to the Govt of the day again? Probably led by accusations from the media that it's overly political (remember when they did this last year in NSW to defend Gladys?).

It seems like the media is only happy if IBAC are investigating the ALP and should be an independent ruthless authority. But when the LNP is in charge it should be Govt controlled and not do anything overly zealous. Funny that.

 

[FredLeDeux]

"He's" clearly in the news this week for the wrong reasons?

That's you taking the Murdoch line.

What the IBAC commissioner said is that the IOC (not Andrews, but appointed oversight committee of ALP MPs as well as Greens and LNP) he thought were undermining him by getting an independent review. His conclusion, that this was political, is not obvious. Nor does any of this implicate Andrews in any way.

One Professor even proposed that the opposition should be the chair of the IOC so that it's clear of politics.

If you can put your hand on your heart and say that if the current LNP MLAs or MLCs were overseeing IBAC that they wouldn't make it political, then I don't think you've been paying attention for 10 years.

For what it's worth, I think the IOC should have an independent balance, perhaps even get the Governor involved, they've got bugger-all to do. But at the same time, 2/3 of the parliament is ALP, so maintaining an ALP chair is arguably more democratic (that's Andrews' line).

Also, there's no suggestion that any IBAC investigations were influenced nor that Andrews was implicated in any of it. It's a HUGE bow to draw to draw a direct line between an independent review of IBAC's performance and the Premier and say it implicates him in corruption.

If I really thought the Murdoch press were interested in corruption, you would think that $30m to Hillsong or $300m for airport land, or Ventnor or Fishermans Bend would have got more of a run.

After more than half a century in ALP politics, Redlich would have a pretty good grasp of what is and isn't political

 

[The Punter]

Not for nothing, but Redlich is now "some bloke who used to run an agency". The Auditor-General was "entitled to his opinion" last year.

Of all his estimable political skills, perhaps Daniel Andrews' greatest one is his unrivalled ability to turn anyone who criticises him into a nobody.