Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[uranium_death]

Consistency = talent, there is no other way to look at it. All consistency means is that under a vast variety of circumstances and situations you are able to perform to a higher standard. Martin tbh screams a bit of a downhill skier, in that he was a top player only when richmond was flying at their peak, he didnt do anything much outside of those few seasons.

He would have struggled immensely in a side like gold coast

We actually don't know that with total certainty

Perhaps he would have actually lifted in that environment, but it's an unknown quantity
When Richmond were underperforming, he was still a very good player - but never in MVP discussion

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Crazy dude claims a player who smashes 3 separate finals series to pieces is a downhill skier. Ok, that checks out, nothing to see here, the guy is crazy after all.

Fadge agrees with him by liking the post.....

 

[PhatBoy]

No Geelong supporter is ever going to have enjoyed watching Dusty! Dusty! Dusty! He couldn't could he? He haaazzzz, run absolute rings around the Cats to destroy 3 finals series for you. That much is understood, you didn't have to state it.

As for your statement that the worst thing is that so many Richmond supporters never reared their heads before 2017 and now feel they are an authority on the game, and refuse to listen to any argument other than the one they believe is true....this is actually 3 distinct things. But the last of those three things I have oddly enough found to be no less true of Geewrong supporters. You try to convince arch campaigners like PhatBoy or Sttew of something they wrongly do not believe to be true.....

Oh a gif. Well that changes everything.

Why would I change my opinion or think you are right when you haven’t said anything to make me think that? I’ve changed my stance on heaps of issues and debates in footy. I didn’t rate Luke Hodge the same way other people did for a long time but that changed because I was given a relevant and logical explanation as to why he should be rated higher.

You are so hell bent on being correct that we have something against Martin because he was part of 3 teams that beat us in finals: so f***en what?

There have been 11 sides of 22 players in the last 15 seasons who have knocked us out of the finals - what in the name of f**k do you think makes him more special than anyone else who has turned it on against us? Do you think we sit around with Stewart Dew dolls putting pins in them? Swan and Co tore us to shreds in 2010. Who cares. We lost, they won. Fremantle were our finals nemesis for a couple of years. Even beat us when we finally got a home final - do you think we refuse to go on boats now because they have anchors like the dockers?

Fremantle a few times, Collingwood a few times, hawthorn a few times, st Kilda, Adelaide, north Melbourne, Melbourne have belted us twice in finals, Sydney, Richmond: they’ve all done it mate. You’re not special if you beat Geelong in a final, and Geelong isn’t special for the teams that it’s had the wood over either.

You’d have to have the brain of an infant to form an opinion on someone ‘because they beat us.’

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oh a gif. Well that changes everything.

Why would I change my opinion or think you are right when you haven’t said anything to make me think that? I’ve changed my stance on heaps of issues and debates in footy. I didn’t rate Luke Hodge the same way other people did for a long time but that changed because I was given a relevant and logical explanation as to why he should be rated higher.

You are so hell bent on being correct that we have something against Martin because he was part of 3 teams that beat us in finals: so f***en what?

There have been 11 sides of 22 players in the last 15 seasons who have knocked us out of the finals - what in the name of f**k do you think makes him more special than anyone else who has turned it on against us? Do you think we sit around with Stewart Dew dolls putting pins in them? Swan and Co tore us to shreds in 2010. Who cares. We lost, they won. Fremantle were our finals nemesis for a couple of years. Even beat us when we finally got a home final - do you think we refuse to go on boats now because they have anchors like the dockers?

Fremantle a few times, Collingwood a few times, hawthorn a few times, st Kilda, Adelaide, north Melbourne, Melbourne have belted us twice in finals, Sydney, Richmond: they’ve all done it mate. You’re not special if you beat Geelong in a final, and Geelong isn’t special for the teams that it’s had the wood over either.

You’d have to have the brain of an infant to form an opinion on someone ‘because they beat us.’

Thanks for this vintage PB post PB.

uranium_death will be able to see precisely what I meant now.

 

[uranium_death]

No Geelong supporter is ever going to have enjoyed watching Dusty! Dusty! Dusty! He couldn't could he? He haaazzzz, run absolute rings around the Cats to destroy 3 finals series for you. That much is understood, you didn't have to state it.

As for your statement that the worst thing is that so many Richmond supporters never reared their heads before 2017 and now feel they are an authority on the game, and refuse to listen to any argument other than the one they believe is true....this is actually 3 distinct things. But the last of those three things I have oddly enough found to be no less true of Geewrong supporters. You try to convince arch campaigners like PhatBoy or Sttew of something they wrongly do not believe to be true.....

Geelong supporters didn't rear their heads until 2007, for the record

Most people I speak to don't enjoy watching Dustin Martin. 95% of people I know barrack for a different club to me.
I loved watching Voss and Judd at their peak, but Martin never did it for me. I think he's a bit of a utensil actually. I saw him play many times before 2017 and he was never consistently dominant
To show I'm not a complete one-eyed, I also think Steve Johnson is the biggest w***er that ever played for Geelong (and one of the biggest I've seen in football) and how he won a Norm Smith in 2007 has me absolutely stuffed

I also think Dangerfield drinks his own bathwater and I wish he'd decide whether he wants to be a captain, an advertising of s**t insurance, or a Channel 7 personality.

There are always campaigners barracking for every club, but outside of Essendon, I have never met such a concentration of outspoken, one-eyed supporters as I have Richmond in the past 6 years who seemingly ignore any history prior to their becoming a force again after decades in the cold.

From my point of view, Martin was an elite player for a very short period over the course of his career. You are most welcome to ignore my viewpoint.

 

[uranium_death]

Thanks for this vintage PB post PB.

uranium_death will be able to see precisely what I meant now.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but two people on a BigFooty forum don't speak for everybody

You also cannot insist that your viewpoint of pushing Martin as a demigod is non-negotiable and get angry when anybody challenges it
Drop the GIFs. They prove a point, but not in a way that actually advances the discussion

 

[RonnieRaven]

Those ppl are idiots then, richo was a great ,but obviously dusty with his success is much better

But seeing who you go for, once you guys actually win a flag then youll know how much weighting it carries

Yeah that’s why plugger didn’t get legend status in the hall of fame.

 

[PhatBoy]

Thanks for this vintage PB post PB.

uranium_death will be able to see precisely what I meant now.

No he won’t. Your post meant nothing, like most of them.

‘This person doesn’t agree because I’m deciding why he doesn’t agree.’

It’s a d**khead take mate, even for someone who’s sole MO is to bait.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

View attachment 1659839

Crazy dude claims a player who smashes 3 separate finals series to pieces is a downhill skier. Ok, that checks out, nothing to see here, the guy is crazy after all.

Fadge agrees with him by liking the post.....

Performed very well when the team was a top side, didnt perform that well when richmond werent a top side. Sounds the definition of a downhill skier to me.

 

[uranium_death]

Yeah that’s why plugger didn’t get legend status in the hall of fame.

What a failure of a footballer. Totally his fault that neither St Kilda nor Sydney won a flag in his time.
Same goes for Ablett Senior, Judd at Carlton, Nathan Buckley, Peter Moore, Bernie Quinlan etc.

 

[caveman72]

Dusty’s internal organ injury halted him big time.

Affects the whole body,an injury of that magnitude.

Imagine how much more of a goat he would be!

Terrible injury only a true champion of the game could come back for that. How bloody good would you be to do that and then go on to win a Premiership

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If I have to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that somebody is insane one day for legal purposes, god I hope they act like you on this thread.

This is your own logic not mine. I am just applying your own very unintelligent logic to other scenarios and it gets laughable.

Also andrew mcleod is officially better than leigh matthews according to your wisdom

 

[uranium_death]

Performed very well when the team was a top side, didnt perform that well when richmond werent a top side. Sounds the definition of a downhill skier to me.

I would never call him a downhill skier. IN a good team, it would have been easier for him to cruise and ride the coattails of others
He was able to outperform those around him, and that takes a huge effort
The issue with Martin is that he had a small window over his career where he really lifted and was at the top of the league. It wasn't sustained as long as others.

Ablett's improved performances coincided with Geelong improving as well. You wouldn't call Ablett a downhill skier. He lifted his training and dedication. The entire team did. They would have been a group of wasted talent had they not

The entire point of this argument is that Dustin Martin is not and never will be the greatest player ever. On the same token, it cannot even be qualified that Ablett is the best ever. It's a pointless argument that ends in monkeys throwing turds at each other, for no net result.

 

[RichLeMonde]

I played a lot of sport at local level, footy and cricket. I would not be going around saying I was better than some other bloke who left me for dead in the biggest games. I wouldn't even presume to imagine I was as good as him. Not one of those players you have placed above Martin has an infallible argument to say they are better than Dusty. But Scarlett, what can you possibly be thinking putting him ahead of Martin? Statistically Scarlett is not even close to Rance, let alone Martin. Astonishing ranking error by a normally astute poster.

It’s all subjective, but I agree a number of the players i put above Martin could be disputed. Not the top 5 though. They were all clearly better than him. Buckley, Voss, Hird, Judd- if you had a choice of any of them or Dusty at the start of their careers, it’s a bit of a toss up.

In a good Richmond side, Dusty was the ultimate icing on the cake. His 2020 GF performance had more influence on the result than any other GF performance I’ve seen. I’m not sure a Buckley, Voss or Judd could have manufactured 4 goals out of a game total of 19, 3 of which being totally against the play and dragging his side back into the game. Ditto kicking 6 in an away final against Brisbane.

But. Martin has not been ultra consistent, set the standards for professionalism, and dragged his team to wins and finals series when surrounded by a middling team, like those other blokes did.

As for Scarlett, obviously stats won’t tell us much. But Scarlett was so creative and attacking, he would run 20m in a back pocket, then suddenly switch the ball kicking 50m to the half back flank on the other side, amd Geelong would stream forward and kick a goal. They’re hard to compare,l as they played such different roles, but I rate Scarlett as one of the most valuable players of the last 20 years. He was like a highly attacking CHB but playing from FB, creating as many goals as he stopped

 

[Glorfindel]

I enjoyed watching Matthew Richardson play a lot more. That's my opinion.

From a pure entertainment perspective I’d have Jumping Jack Riewoldt ahead of Martin as well.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I would never call him a downhill skier. IN a good team, it would have been easier for him to cruise and ride the coattails of others
He was able to outperform those around him, and that takes a huge effort
The issue with Martin is that he had a small window over his career where he really lifted and was at the top of the league. It wasn't sustained as long as others.

Ablett's improved performances coincided with Geelong improving as well. You wouldn't call Ablett a downhill skier. He lifted his training and dedication. The entire team did. They would have been a group of wasted talent had they not

The entire point of this argument is that Dustin Martin is not and never will be the greatest player ever. On the same token, it cannot even be qualified that Ablett is the best ever. It's a pointless argument that ends in monkeys throwing turds at each other, for no net result.

Ablett won a brownlow playing for gold coast. I think we can shut the door on that one.

I think this thread is simply put a bay13 troll pit of richmond fans.

I think the level of stupidity they are discussing as arguments shows most of them are self aware he is far from GOAT discussions, it is just more to try and stir up others. I dont take this thread seriously, how can you? It should be moved to bay13.

 

[uranium_death]

From a pure entertainment perspective I’d have Jumping Jack Riewoldt ahead of Martin as well.

I wouldn't, because Jack is a crybaby poopants. Both Riewoldts were.
A great player, yes but I think you also have to sort of like the player to enjoy watching them

But it's all subjective

I used to watch Jason Dunstall out at Waverley fairly often. I saw Stewart Loewe really take off when Lockett left as well. They were enjoyable players to watch
Some people don't like either Ablett. I can understand why. Ablett Senior has made awful life choices. As a pure footballer, I was mesmerised.

 

[BuddyHawk]

So i understand, i assume andrew mcleod was considered down at punt road tge GOAT until dustin martin came along??

No, I'm certain it was Gary Ayres.

 

[uranium_death]

Ablett won a brownlow playing for gold coast. I think we can shut the door on that one.

I think this thread is simply put a bay13 troll pit of richmond fans.

I think the level of stupidity they are discussing as arguments shows most of them are self aware he is far from GOAT discussions, it is just more to try and stir up others. I dont take this thread seriously, how can you? It should be moved to bay13.

There are always a handful of people that cover their cars in premiership stickers and membership stickers of the glory years, with nothing before as if nothing existed beforehand

I personally think Ablett, Judd, Voss, Buckley, Hird etc. performed at a high level for a lot longer than Dustin Martin, and I know they weren't downhill skiers, but Dustin Martin isn't either. It's a loose euphemism that is a cheap throwaway line that doesn't hold true. He had to be a hard worker to rise above others in what was a very strong, even team. You have to recognise that fact, irrespective of what you think of him, Richmond, or their supporters.

The important thing about this entire thread is that somebody has pushed a hypothetical narrative that is driven by an opinion that can easily be refuted, but some refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

I also think that every male should have a vasectomy at birth and have to prove their value to society before earning the privilege of having children

 

[uranium_death]

/drop mic

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No, I'm certain it was Gary Ayres.

Possibly jason costagna also these days is one of the GOAT’s?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Performed very well when the team was a top side, didnt perform that well when richmond werent a top side. Sounds the definition of a downhill skier to me.

Yawn.

I know this will sound crazy to you, but maybe just have a little look at Dusty's second season 2011 which is about as good as it ever gets for a 19yo, or 2016 where he podiumed the Brownlow inter alia.

I shouldn't have to tell you this, but then look at Richmond's ladder position in those seasons.

Then I guess after that a sane person would come back to the thread and apologise. But we won't burden you with that expectation G Crazy.

 

[uranium_death]

Yawn.

I know this will sound crazy to you, but maybe just have a little look at Dusty's second season 2011 which is about as good as it ever gets for a 19yo, or 2016 where he podiumed the Brownlow inter alia.

I shouldn't have to tell you this, but then look at Richmond's ladder position in those seasons.

Then I guess after that a sane person would come back to the thread and apologise. But we won't burden you with that expectation G Crazy.

Dude, I already refuted the statement, and it was done. Anybody who objectively knows the game refutes that idea that Martin is a downhill skier.
Right now, you're trolling, and when they respond to you, you piss your pants

Time to move on (Y)

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dude, I already refuted the statement, and it was done. Anybody who objectively knows the game refutes that idea that Martin is a downhill skier.
Right now, you're trolling, and when they respond to you, you piss your pants

Time to move on (Y)

You can troll with facts?

Anyway, you were nowhere near caustic enough in your refutement, if refutement is actually a word.

 

[uranium_death]

You can troll with facts?

Anyway, you were nowhere near caustic enough in your refutement, if refutement is actually a word.

Trolling for a response. I agree with your point, but I already said everything that needed to be said

As for being caustic, every f****** c*** that disagrees with me can f*** off and die