I'm curious, how did everyone get Ablett Jnr wrong?

[FreoRicci]

Remembered in 2006, v Fremantle at Subiaco Oval, he absolutely dominated on the day.
14 disposals with 6 goals. Fremantle loss by 66 points, yet finished 3rd. Ablett had this step and creativity up forward.

Left watching that thinking gee Geelong are building something if they get their consistency right. Ablett is a star in the making.

It all came to fruition the year after and beyond..

 

[Mr Meow]

Why does anyone doing a comparison to someone have to mean they are saying they are going to be as good as them?

Every cricket commentator on the planet says Darren Bravo looked eye catchingoy similar to his cousin Brian Lara, and everyone who’s watched Tagenarine Chanderpaul bat says he’s a mirror image of his dad Shivnarine.

I’ve never read a single person say ‘I bet those two will be as good as Brian Lara and Shivnarine Chanderpaul.’

Yeah it was completely inoffensive and as young small forwards with midfield potential, the parallels are there. Same with Murphy Reid. Of course the odds of them, or any player, becoming the best player of their generation are low. But attributes-wise plenty have the potential to become greats.

 

[Shane Heard]

Why does anyone doing a comparison to someone have to mean they are saying they are going to be as good as them?

Every cricket commentator on the planet says Darren Bravo looked eye catchingoy similar to his cousin Brian Lara, and everyone who’s watched Tagenarine Chanderpaul bat says he’s a mirror image of his dad Shivnarine.

I’ve never read a single person say ‘I bet those two will be as good as Brian Lara and Shivnarine Chanderpaul.’

Because a lot of people in this world are mentally challenged and delusional about professional sports ability

 

[bzparkes]

Was thought to be a decent second round small forward prospect in his draft year. A bit of midfield potential which he displayed in some nice cameos 2003-2006. Once the onus was really put on him to build a tank and take on a full time midfield gig he excelled.

Take out the name and nothing massive would have been expected of him based on his junior football.

Take out the name and would he even get drafted?

From a fan's perspective, it's a shame Nathan didn't kick on with his career and knuckle down like Gary did. Could've been anything.

 

[Mr Meow]

Take out the name and would he even get drafted?

From a fan's perspective, it's a shame Nathan didn't kick on with his career and knuckle down like Gary did. Could've been anything.

Drafted? Yes.

Probably a Bobby Hill, Darcy Jones or Kai Lohmann pick 20-25. Perhaps a slide to 30 with questions over his commitment.

Nathan really could've been something special if an AFL career was his passion. Probably something of a Hawkins-Cameron hybrid, with his old man's X factor mixed in on top of that.

 

[Cyclops]

Probably played more good footy than anyone this century. His father was better by a mile.

My guess is GAJ was not underwhelming but didnt explode like Judd did at first because he hadn't grown into his massive strength.

At the time, Bigfooty trolls were giving it to Geelong people about not being instant Jesus , but even an outsider like me could see they had a potential star.

His skills and attributes were plainly good in every aspect of the game except marking (still fine, just not stellar). He was also fair and a good sport.

His skill level seemed unaffected much by pressure. He could be hammered (happened all the time later once once he went into the midfield), it didn't change much. That was impressive.

My impression at first was he was unfit (I recall thinking "hope he doesn't get his endurance right"-nek minnit) but fair to say he wasnt lazy, i think it was simply he took longer to grow into his body.

Take out the name and would he even get drafted?

From a fan's perspective, it's a shame Nathan didn't kick on with his career and knuckle down like Gary did. Could've been anything.

Both plainly had talent. I think Nathan was better as a jnr, is that right?

I'm not itk about Nathan but my guess is a couple of things, his mental health and his faith, were in the way.

Good luck to him, playing footy is optional. Not saying the would have won more with him, but he wouldn't have made them worse.

 

[Mr Meow]

Probably played more good footy than anyone this century. His father was better by a mile.

My guess is GAJ was not underwhelming but didnt explode like Judd did at first because he hadn't grown into his massive strength.

At the time, Bigfooty trolls were giving it to Geelong people about not being instant Jesus , but even an outsider like me could see they had a potential star.

His skills and attributes were plainly good in every aspect of the game except marking (still fine, just not stellar). He was also fair and a good sport.

His skill level seemed unaffected much by pressure. He could be hammered (happened all the time later once once he went into the midfield), it didn't change much. That was impressive.

My impression at first was he was unfit (I recall thinking "hope he doesn't get his endurance right"-nek minnit) but fair to say he wasnt lazy, i think it was simply he took longer to grow into his body.


Both plainly had talent. I think Nathan was better as a jnr, is that right?

I'm not itk about Nathan but my guess is a couple of things, his mental health and his faith, were in the way.

Good luck to him, playing footy is optional. Not saying the would have won more with him, but he wouldn't have made them worse.

Yeah completely fair enough for Nathan to decide it wasn't for him.

There's a double sliding doors moment there though. N.Ablett stays and has a similar GAJ "awakening" moment, then Hawkins doesn't break his back at the end of 2012. Those two at their athletic peak would have been a freakish pairing around 2011-2017. Hawkins was still awesome but the back injury took out the athletic potential of his game completely.

If Nathan kept playing then maybe Gary would have stayed too. Peak GAJ-Selwood-Danger getting it forward to prime Hawkins and N.Ablett would've been fun to watch.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

I predicted he'd be great. I actually coached him for a few months too.

 

[Scotland]

Symbolic of that era at Geelong. As a team they were OK and made a prelim in 2004 but were typically a mid table finisher and Geelong had the 'sleepy hollow' vibe about it. No one saw 2007 coming let alone averaging 18 wins a year for 8 years. I mean in 3 completed 23 game seasons only Collingwood 2023 and Adelaide 2025 have won 18. Geelong won 18, 21, 18, 17, 19, 15, 18, 17 from 2007-2014.

Ablett, Steve Johnson, Jimmy Bartel, Paul Chapman

Paul Chapman

Age

44

Ht

179cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

3.5

5star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.2

3star

etc. all took big leaps from around 2006/7 onward. These guys were all 22-27 at that time so a lot of it was natural progression. Not everyone is Chris Judd who is winning Brownlows at 21. Even Cam Mooney kicked 22 goals in 2006 and had a career best of 28 before that in his 7 seasons at the Cats (he played in the ruck a bit). Then he kicked 67, 52, 46. 36 the next 4 seasons.

A few key moments lined up with having an amazing list of players and the rest is history. Harley as captain, Leading Teams coming in, Stevie J being suspended for getting on the tins etc.

The honest feedback session with Ablett Jr. that changed the course of the 2007 Cats

“It was the most important thing that we did it as a football club.”

www.sen.com.au

He was a man who finished third in a club best and fairest in 2006 playing virtually in a forward pocket and he thought he was doing everything right,” Mooney said.

“But we thought he should be training harder and could be training harder. We told him in no uncertain terms that we thought that he could be our Chris Judd - Juddy was the best player in the competition at that stage or the best midfielder in the competition at that stage.

“He walked out quite upset, but to his credit, he came back, trained the house down and the rest is history.”

 

[Chopperdave]

Symbolic of that era at Geelong. As a team they were OK and made a prelim in 2004 but were typically a mid table finisher and Geelong had the 'sleepy hollow' vibe about it. No one saw 2007 coming let alone averaging 18 wins a year for 8 years. I mean in 3 completed 23 game seasons only Collingwood 2023 and Adelaide 2025 have won 18. Geelong won 18, 21, 18, 17, 19, 15, 18, 17 from 2007-2014.

Ablett, Steve Johnson, Jimmy Bartel, Paul Chapman etc. all took big leaps from around 2006/7 onward. These guys were all 22-27 at that time so a lot of it was natural progression. Not everyone is Chris Judd who is winning Brownlows at 21. Even Cam Mooney kicked 22 goals in 2006 and had a career best of 28 before that in his 7 seasons at the Cats (he played in the ruck a bit). Then he kicked 67, 52, 46. 36 the next 4 seasons.

A few key moments lined up with having an amazing list of players and the rest is history. Harley as captain, Leading Teams coming in, Stevie J being suspended for getting on the tins etc.

The honest feedback session with Ablett Jr. that changed the course of the 2007 Cats

“It was the most important thing that we did it as a football club.”

www.sen.com.au

Nothing else happened to Geelongs fitness staff prior to 2007 that might have made them bulk up and dominate the following season did it

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I predicted he'd be great. I actually coached him for a few months too.

Are you 50?

 

[PhatBoy]

Nothing else happened to Geelongs fitness staff prior to 2007 that might have made them bulk up and dominate the following season did it

Strange how the Dogs, North and Hawthorn didn’t seem to have an issue dealing with us in the opening 5 weeks of 2007.
So what happened to st Kilda who suddenly went from being a 13-9 team and made a marked improvement soon enough and lost 3 games in 2009 by a combined 20 points or so with a percentage of 155

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Joel Selwood wrote a column in The Age about how GAJ’s footballing dominance was a little mysterious.

Apparently on the long runs he didn’t perform overly well, he didn’t have exceptional speed and wasn’t overly impressive in the weight room either. He was okay athletically, he wasn’t slow like Greg Williams, but not outstanding on any metric IIRC. The AFL’s Larry Bird? Or Luka Doncic?

Other AFL superstars were genuinely athletically gifted. Gary snr apparently won the 100, 200 and 400 metre races at his first GFC preseason and shocked everyone when he won the medicine ball throwing competition easily and had an epic leap. Rodney Eade wrote a column mentioning Wayne Carey was amazing in that he was the only player he ever knew who was in the top five at a club for the five metre sprint and the five kilometre run.

 

[kickazz]

His early years are underrated because of how good he became.

He was the best young small forward in the game. From 2003-2006 he finished 4th, 8th, 3rd and 3rd in the B&F.

Nobody could've expected him to become arguably the best player ever but he was always one of the best young players in the game.

Yeah this.

Even if he never became a gun mid he was a very very good small forward.

 

[Ambrosia]

Joel Selwood wrote a column in The Age about how GAJ’s footballing dominance was a little mysterious.

Apparently on the long runs he didn’t perform overly well, he didn’t have exceptional speed and wasn’t overly impressive in the weight room either. He was okay athletically, he wasn’t slow like Greg Williams, but not outstanding on any metric IIRC. The AFL’s Larry Bird? Or Luka Doncic?

Other AFL superstars were genuinely athletically gifted. Gary snr apparently won the 100, 200 and 400 metre races at his first GFC preseason and shocked everyone when he won the medicine ball throwing competition easily and had an epic leap. Rodney Eade wrote a column mentioning Wayne Carey was amazing in that he was the only player he ever knew who was in the top five at a club for the five metre sprint and the five kilometre run.

Get the feeling it would more have been Ablett not putting his all into those tests. He very clearly was incredibly strong through the hips and had a good burst of speed to break tackles in his prime

 

[Scotland]

You don't need to be the best athlete to be the best player in the AFL. You just need to be good enough in the categories that matter. If your 100m time is 15 seconds yeah you probably aren't going to make it, but running a 10.5 vs an 11 won't guarantee you anything.

Chris Judd and Patrick Dangerfield are burst athletes with elite speed. Judd would pick the ball up at a stoppage then from a standing start would be 5m in the clear in the blink of an eye. Danger (still, at 35 years old) runs into contests at full pace with no consideration for his own safety or anyone else's then somehow emerges with the ball while everyone else is skittled like bowling pins.

Ablett Jr, like Marcus Bontempelli

4

Marcus Bontempelli

Age

30

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

10.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

18.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

8.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

1.8

4star

, Dustin Martin and Nat Fyfe as other 'best player in the comp right now' candidates don't really play the same way. Pat Cripps is tall and strong but not all that quick. Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

24

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

is a contested animal, couldn't tell you his metrics from draft camp. Nick Daicos is lightning, but he also has the same balance that GAJ had where he can lace a 50m drop punt at full pace. GAJ is built like a nugget and had amazing core strength. He was quick enough to get the job done. His balance and ability to side step in traffic was incredible. GAS had the same ability, but wasn't playing on ball getting 30 touches a game. But you can watch both of them and they will be 50 or 55 out from goal and whether they are sprinting, jogging, running an angle away from straight at goal etc. they have the ability to execute a dead straight drop punt.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

You don't need to be the best athlete to be the best player in the AFL. You just need to be good enough in the categories that matter. If your 100m time is 15 seconds yeah you probably aren't going to make it, but running a 10.5 vs an 11 won't guarantee you anything.

IMHO one of the best fun facts in all of sports is that the player with the least impressive athleticism ever recorded at the NFL Scouting Combine is Tom Brady.

 

[PhatBoy]

IMHO one of the best fun facts in all of sports is that the player with the least impressive athleticism ever recorded at the NFL Scouting Combine is Tom Brady.

Totally different sport and skillset obviously but I love the contrast of the 3 all-timers in cricket fast bowling at the moment.

Obviously all of them are fairly fit, unless you are Merv Hughes - which in itself is a worthy discussion point - you have to be to be a fast bowler - but they all have major sort of athletic points of difference.

Pat Cummins is a fairly big, burly sort of guy who looks like he has a very strong core and just charges in all day and does so much of his damage through sheer willpower as much as anything. A Dangerfield type almost.

Jasprit Bumrah ambles in off half the run up of anyone else with this freak right arm that hyperextends backwards and a wrist that Liberace would be proud of and bends the ball this way and that without ever seeming to break out of a trot. Just like a magician.

Kagiso Rabada is like what you imagine an engineer would design a fast bowler to look like in a lab, same as Michael Holding. Looks like he could run 100 in 10 flat if he wanted to.

And all their results work out across the various metrics to be roughly similar.

A healthy dose of skill doesn’t hurt, of course

 

[STPer18]

Anyone who watched a bit of him as a youngster would have quickly noticed he had something special. I often recall, he would find the ball and instead of doing what most players did, get rid of it as quickly as possible, he would try some things. Often maneuvering around a player before assessing his options. This is a rare quality in a young player. Takes courage and self-belief to accept you are likely going to get pinged or cop the barrage from your coaches.

His brother (Nathan) had even more natural talent. Remarkably agile and assured on both sides of the body. At 195cm tall, he would have become one of the best players of his generation. As talented as what Sam Darcy is today. Probably even higher footy IQ. The complete package.

Huge what if. There's those hilarious stories surrounding him like when he started Q3 on the interchange, but no one could find him on the bench 'cause he was in the rooms on the couch watching the game on TV eating grapes. Probably would've thrived in a less professional era.

 

[Farm Boy]

Should have won 5-6 brownlows. Was also froze out in his last year at Geelong. Ablett jr is a top 3 player in history. He is the best midfielder to play the game, and had it all. Would be in the top handful of most talented players ever as well.

 

[Shane Heard]

Remembered in 2006, v Fremantle at Subiaco Oval, he absolutely dominated on the day.
14 disposals with 6 goals. Fremantle loss by 66 points, yet finished 3rd. Ablett had this step and creativity up forward.

Left watching that thinking gee Geelong are building something if they get their consistency right. Ablett is a star in the making.

It all came to fruition the year after and beyond..

Yeah I was at that game.

And a few years later you played them again at packed house when they were at peak form and you beat them i recall.

I pretty sure you won .

I remember my bomber freak son was young and wanted to watch Bartel play.

 

[Shane Heard]

Should have won 5-6 brownlows. Was also froze out in his last year at Geelong. Ablett jr is a top 3 player in history. He is the best midfielder to play the game, and had it all. Would be in the top handful of most talented players ever as well.

I put Robert Harvey right with him.

The ability to side step and baulk around tacklers and deliver the ball with calmness and accuracy. D.Jarman, Pendlebury, Hird and Mercuri similar. They get out of traffic and have time to look up and see their target. Supreme awareness of what’s around them.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

His brother (Nathan) had even more natural talent. Remarkably agile and assured on both sides of the body. At 195cm tall, he would have become one of the best players of his generation. As talented as what Sam Darcy is today. Probably even higher footy IQ. The complete package.

Yeah Nate could have been anything. He WAS anything... for a brief year.



I don't think the Suns saw too much of that.

 

[FreoRicci]

Yeah I was at that game.

And a few years later you played them again at packed house when they were at peak form and you beat them i recall.

I pretty sure you won .

I remember my bomber freak was young and wanted to watch Bartel play.

Funny how Fremantle always seemed to rise v Geelong occasionally and win a few games in the last 10-15 years.

 

[Mr Meow]

Funny how Fremantle always seemed to rise v Geelong occasionally and win a few games in the last 10-15 years.

Not all of it, but a fair chunk, was down to Lyon. A lot of those results came in 2012-2019. There's been others obviously, but a large concentration was with Lyon. He's still pretty much doing it with St Kilda.