Independent report into Hobart's proposed new stadium has found the costs of the project have been significantly underestimated

[speedpeck23]

That growth would have happened anyway, it has grown at the same rate as other clubs around the country. GWS get virtually zero media attention, and GC same in Brisbane.

Yes, so all clubs have grown, including having 2 new clubs which will slowly build like every other club as you say.. The reality is the big Victorian clubs play twice a year in Sydney and Brisbane....those clubs get attention and give the game a higher profile, particularly in terms of media and attendance.

 

[Walshawk]

Yes, so all clubs have grown, including having 2 new clubs which will slowly build like every other club as you say.. The reality is the big Victorian clubs play twice a year in Sydney and Brisbane....those clubs get attention and give the game a higher profile, particularly in terms of media and attendance.

See my earlier post. GWS zero growth in crowds, ratings or participation in WS. Membership yes, but who know how that is calculated and how many in WS.

GC doing better, due to the number of Vics living there, but doubtful if either club has grown the AFL pie.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

You mean like how they have been already playing AFL games at those venues with no issues...

Theres a difference between having a venue to play at and having a venue that can actually generate a income stream and help to make a club viable and self sufficient

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Is the retractable roof cheaper to support cricket interest?

A retractable roof is significantly more expensive than a fixed one but obviously makes playing cricket at the venue a lot easier

 

[Crowbling]

Absolute insanity to expect taxpayers to pretty much cover the entire cost of a $1b little AFL ground in Hobart.

 

[WillHayward]

Absolute insanity to expect taxpayers to pretty much cover the entire cost of a $1b little AFL ground in Hobart.

I'm confused about Bellerive.
Cricket own that stadium.
Surely that stadium needs to be sold off (for housing) and some of that money put to the new stadium?
Surely they can't expect to keep both Bellerive and Macquarie point mostly sitting empty all year around?
Seems insanely wasteful?

 

[WillHayward]

A retractable roof is significantly more expensive than a fixed one but obviously makes playing cricket at the venue a lot easier

I heard someone say cricket is against the roof and don't like the design?

 

[WillHayward]

See my earlier post. GWS zero growth in crowds, ratings or participation in WS. Membership yes, but who know how that is calculated and how many in WS.

GC doing better, due to the number of Vics living there, but doubtful if either club has grown the AFL pie.

Im a GWS member because the "digital member" package is just a subsidised and cheap kayo subscription.

The member numbers aren't real . GWS is not working at all. They need to move to Canberra.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yes but you’re missing a key point.

The Suns and Giants are money pits for the AFL - but money they’re happy to put in as essentially a marketing budget to cut through the noise in the northern states for hearts and minds.

Tasmania is already an AFL state. Does the AFL want it to become another money pit with no tangible benefit?

I'm not missing anything

investing heavily in NRL states = an eventual return on their investment

Investing in an already AFL heavy state = almost zero return

It's exactly why the NRL want to expand into Perth.

Tasmania deserves a Team, but it's bad business to invest in something that doesn't net a return. Thats how the AFL sees it. I guarantee it. Now whether that's right or wrong is the only question

 

[speedpeck23]

See my earlier post. GWS zero growth in crowds, ratings or participation in WS. Membership yes, but who know how that is calculated and how many in WS.

GC doing better, due to the number of Vics living there, but doubtful if either club has grown the AFL pie.

It happens indirectly....9 matches per round, increased broadcast rights, higher profile for bigger AFL clubs coming more often into NSW/Qld. More teams allows a match like Crows v Giants get a 40,000 attendance and you can keep an extra blockbuster in Melbourne to get a big crowd.

You've got to give it time. Look at Hawthorn's history....there were plenty of people even up to the mid 1950's who wanted Hawthorn kicked out because after 30 years they'd won 10 wooden spoons ....no finals appearance, no leading goalkicker, no Brownlow... and not many supporters. Lucky the people who wanted to kick them out didn't get their way.

 

[WillHayward]

I'm not missing anything

investing heavily in NRL states = an eventual return on their investment

Investing in an already AFL heavy state = almost zero return

It's exactly why the NRL want to expand into Perth.

Tasmania deserves a Team, but it's bad business to invest in something that doesn't net a return. Thats how the AFL sees it. I guarantee it. Now whether that's right or wrong is the only question

AFL won't ever get a return in western Sydney. White elephant .

 

[HirdsTheWord]

AFL won't ever get a return in western Sydney. White elephant .

they will, eventually.

 

[RUNVS]

My question, if Tasmania does not need a new stadium, and they are fine the way they are, then why is it whenever North or Hawthorn played in Tasmania they only played against non-Victorian sides and very small Victorian clubs? Why are the facilities fine, but also not good enough for the big Victorian clubs?

 

[Walshawk]

My question, if Tasmania does not need a new stadium, and they are fine the way they are, then why is it whenever North or Hawthorn played in Tasmania they only played against non-Victorian sides and very small Victorian clubs? Why are the facilities fine, but also not good enough for the big Victorian clubs?

Because the whole point of selling games it to get paid for the ones that you might otherwise make a loss or less money from.

 

[My_Username]

My question, if Tasmania does not need a new stadium, and they are fine the way they are, then why is it whenever North or Hawthorn played in Tasmania they only played against non-Victorian sides and very small Victorian clubs? Why are the facilities fine, but also not good enough for the big Victorian clubs?

Because they all make less money that way.

There was a report from Hobart council a few years ago about the return on their investment, and the period analysed included a North v Richmond game.

Game sold out really early, which you might think would be a good thing, but the issue was that the attendance was almost entirely locals.

That meant no revenue for hotels, far less revenue for restaurants (etc. etc. etc.)....Tourists spend more.

Meanwhile North also lost money because instead of playing Richmond at Docklands, they played a non-Vic club there. (North also had issues with Richmond having more support in Hobart, which hurt their broader plans to build their support - Richmond on the other hand was happy to make it a regular fixture).

So even though the game was theoretically a huge hit (sellout, far in advance), both Hobart council and North agreed to 'encourage' the AFL not to do that fixture again.

 

[RUNVS]

Because they all make less money that way.

There was a report from Hobart council a few years ago about the return on their investment, and the period analysed included a North v Richmond game.

Game sold out really early, which you might think would be a good thing, but the issue was that the attendance was almost entirely locals.

That meant no revenue for hotels, far less revenue for restaurants (etc. etc. etc.)....Tourists spend more.

Meanwhile North also lost money because instead of playing Richmond at Docklands, they played a non-Vic club there. (North also had issues with Richmond having more support in Hobart, which hurt their broader plans to build their support - Richmond on the other hand was happy to make it a regular fixture).

So even though the game was theoretically a huge hit (sellout, far in advance), both Hobart council and North agreed to 'encourage' the AFL not to do that fixture again.

Then that in itself says Tasmania needs a new stadium.

 

[My_Username]

Then that in itself says Tasmania needs a new stadium.

The new stadium wont be much bigger than Bellerive, so if one sells out 'early', the other probably would too.

Don't ask me to find a link, but IIRC, one of the 'conditions' of the new stadium* was that a lot of the seats would be reserves for visitors to ensure they get the tourism revenue.

* - I doubt anyone wants the 'credit' for doing this, but I'd guess it was Tas government's doing to bring in the broader economic boost $$$.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

GWS has not made a dent in the NRL’s market share. Rugby League is the strongest it’s ever been in Western Sydney. Since 2012, GWS crowds have not changed at all. The NRL clubs in the area are up by 40% since the Giants entered the competition.

On the Gold Coast, neither the Suns nor the Titans crowds have changed since 2010-12.

TV ratings have not changed either with GWS games not rating any higher than games involving Victorian clubs. No figures available for GC.

These stats are dire if accurate.

Where are you getting this information?

 

[speedpeck23]

AFL won't ever get a return in western Sydney. White elephant .

We can't just rely on the Swans their going to hit rock bottom one day like the early 90's... 5 year average SCG attendance under 10,000 for 11 home matches per season. They had been in Sydney for just over 10 years.

 

[catstorm]

AFL won't ever get a return in western Sydney. White elephant .

Yep people said the same about the Swans, yet here we are.

 

[WillHayward]

Yep people said the same about the Swans, yet here we are.

Where are we exactly?

I've lived in NSW and Sydney for over a decade.

The idea that AFL will inevitably conquer any new frontier is.a very Vic centric delusion.

It is absolutely by no means inevitable that GWS succeed.

 

[sherb]

You mean like how they have been already playing AFL games at those venues with no issues...

How do you reckon the Crows would go with Norwood Oval as their home base instead of Adelaide Oval?

 

[sherb]

Yes but you’re missing a key point.

The Suns and Giants are money pits for the AFL - but money they’re happy to put in as essentially a marketing budget to cut through the noise in the northern states for hearts and minds.

Tasmania is already an AFL state. Does the AFL want it to become another money pit with no tangible benefit?

The "tangible benefit" is maintaining the health of the game in an AFL state.

 

[sherb]

Where are we exactly?

I've lived in NSW and Sydney for over a decade.

The idea that AFL will inevitably conquer any new frontier is.a very Vic centric delusion.

It is absolutely by no means inevitable that GWS succeed.

And I've lived here for over 40 years.

People were making the same argument about the Swans decades ago. The AFL seems to have done well in conquering that particular frontier. There was no inevitability about that either.............

You are not the first Swans fan I've come across who seems to have little feel for or understanding of your own club's history in Sydney.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How do you reckon the Crows would go with Norwood Oval as their home base instead of Adelaide Oval?

What has that got to do with my post?

Does Adelaide Oval have an enclosed roof?

I'm all for a new stadium in Hobart, but the cost of an enclosed roof won't realise any significant financial benefits & is an unnecessary extravagance that will likely impact on Tasmania's credit rating.

Adelaide Oval has 3 major tenants.

The new Hobart stadium will house 2 major tenants, if it doesn't have an enclosed roof & is suitable for cricket.