Independent report into Hobart's proposed new stadium has found the costs of the project have been significantly underestimated

[sherb]

What has that got to do with my post?

Does Adelaide Oval have an enclosed roof?

I'm all for a new stadium in Hobart, but the cost of an enclosed roof won't realise any significant financial benefits & is an unnecessary extravagance that will likely impact on Tasmania's credit rating.

Adelaide Oval has 3 major tenants.

The new Hobart stadium will house 2 major tenants, if it doesn't have an enclosed roof & is suitable for cricket.

It's the difference between basing an AFL club in a suburban venue and basing it in a modern, boutique stadium. Roof or no roof.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Because they all make less money that way.

There was a report from Hobart council a few years ago about the return on their investment, and the period analysed included a North v Richmond game.

Game sold out really early, which you might think would be a good thing, but the issue was that the attendance was almost entirely locals.

That meant no revenue for hotels, far less revenue for restaurants (etc. etc. etc.)....Tourists spend more.

Meanwhile North also lost money because instead of playing Richmond at Docklands, they played a non-Vic club there. (North also had issues with Richmond having more support in Hobart, which hurt their broader plans to build their support - Richmond on the other hand was happy to make it a regular fixture).

So even though the game was theoretically a huge hit (sellout, far in advance), both Hobart council and North agreed to 'encourage' the AFL not to do that fixture again.

Correct. A large part of the success that the Tasmanian government wants from the new club will be tourism… it’s a short trip for Victorians to come for a weekend when their club is playing, they will want a few thousand of them.

If the club plays at Bellerive they will go once and never go again. It’s a terrible experience, in the middle of nowhere and painful to get to.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It's the difference between basing an AFL club in a suburban venue and basing it in a modern, boutique stadium. Roof or no roof.

We are in agreement that Tasmania needs a new stadium.

I'm just saying the cost of an enclosed roof is an unnecessary financial extravagance... & also makes it unsuitable for cricket.

Build a beautiful boutique stadium with most seats under cover at a far lower cost than what has been proposed.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I heard someone say cricket is against the roof and don't like the design?

There worried the frame work for the translucent roof would produce to many shadows on the ground during the day

 

[nick1408]

Because they all make less money that way.

There was a report from Hobart council a few years ago about the return on their investment, and the period analysed included a North v Richmond game.

Game sold out really early, which you might think would be a good thing, but the issue was that the attendance was almost entirely locals.

That meant no revenue for hotels, far less revenue for restaurants (etc. etc. etc.)....Tourists spend more.

Meanwhile North also lost money because instead of playing Richmond at Docklands, they played a non-Vic club there. (North also had issues with Richmond having more support in Hobart, which hurt their broader plans to build their support - Richmond on the other hand was happy to make it a regular fixture).

So even though the game was theoretically a huge hit (sellout, far in advance), both Hobart council and North agreed to 'encourage' the AFL not to do that fixture again.

Correct. A large part of the success that the Tasmanian government wants from the new club will be tourism… it’s a short trip for Victorians to come for a weekend when their club is playing, they will want a few thousand of them.

If the club plays at Bellerive they will go once and never go again. It’s a terrible experience, in the middle of nowhere and painful to get to.

If Hobart Council and North Melbourne don't want big Melbourne clubs playing there against North Melbourne they have failed in their lobbying - Richmond play there again on August 17.

 

[speedpeck23]

Where are we exactly?

I've lived in NSW and Sydney for over a decade.

The idea that AFL will inevitably conquer any new frontier is.a very Vic centric delusion.

It is absolutely by no means inevitable that GWS succeed.

That makes you a bit better than the Swans....you've only taken a decade to work Sydney out....the Swan's took a decade and a half.

 

[WillHayward]

That makes you a bit better than the Swans....you've only taken a decade to work Sydney out....the Swan's took a decade and a half.

You can't fight demographics and the demographics are firmly against GWS.
No amount of money or evangelism will change this.
I think it's pretty "white supremacist" that we think AFL culture will naturally prove to be superior and everyone will be gagging to be converted to the one true religion.
It ain't gonna happen.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

No amount of money or evangelism will change this.
I think it's pretty "white supremacist" that we think AFL culture will naturally prove to be superior and everyone will be gagging to be converted to the one true religion.
It ain't gonna happen.

 

[WillHayward]

Tl

Hardcore Victorian AFL folk think they can turn up absolutely anywhere and set up shop and hold out a shingle and the natives will all be clambering over themselves to get a piece of the action.

It's like the old school missionaries.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Absolute insanity to expect taxpayers to pretty much cover the entire cost of a $1b little AFL ground in Hobart.

Pretty much every major stadium in the country has been built with large chunks of either state or federal funding this really isn’t that different

 

[Crowbling]

Pretty much every major stadium in the country has been built with large chunks of either state or federal funding this really isn’t that different

A $1b+ 23,000 seat stadium on an island of 500k people. I can see why there is so much push back.

 

[Scotland]

A $1b+ 23,000 seat stadium on an island of 500k people. I can see why there is so much push back.

And it's in a city of 260k people. It's the Tassie Devils not the Hobart Devils. They will (would?) play a few games at Launceston each year.

A new stadium for Hobart is great, but $1b+ for 8 AFL games, 5 BBL games and a test every few years doesn't stack up.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

A $1b+ 23,000 seat stadium on an island of 500k people. I can see why there is so much push back.

You forgot to mention the part that building the 1billion stadium will deliver a sporting team in the biggest sporting competition in the southern hemisphere . and the flow on effects from that to local business and the general public will be huge

 

[Scotland]

You forgot to mention the part that building the 1billion stadium will deliver a sporting team in the biggest sporting competition in the southern hemisphere . and the flow on effects from that to local business and the general public will be huge

Gather Round generated 190,000 hotel visitor nights and $91m in economic impact (not defined). I don't know how much the SA govt paid the AFL to have it added into the calendar but I would imagine it's in the tens of millions per year.

Has any kind of economic modelling been done on the new Hobart stadium?

 

[sherb]

We are in agreement that Tasmania needs a new stadium.

I'm just saying the cost of an enclosed roof is an unnecessary financial extravagance... & also makes it unsuitable for cricket.

Build a beautiful boutique stadium with most seats under cover at a far lower cost than what has been proposed.

My apologies for misinterpreting your post.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

And it's in a city of 260k people. It's the Tassie Devils not the Hobart Devils. They will (would?) play a few games at Launceston each year.

A new stadium for Hobart is great, but $1b+ for 8 AFL games, 5 BBL games and a test every few years doesn't stack up.

CA will reduce Tests each summer before reintroducing Hobart, Canberra or anywhere else as an occasional sixth Test. There might be a "venue opening test"; and maybe an emergency move if no venue is available in Brisbane during Olympic construction and an Ashes is on or another covid-style forced venue shift. But that's about it in the 30-40 year life of the venue.

15-20 days a year depending on finals in AFL and BBL. Add presumably lower ticket prices than elsewhere given Tasmanians lower incomes and spending power, far less sponsorship availability and corporate box demand, to house about 40% of Perth stadium capacity at 75%+ of the construction cost (lower match day and probably lower maintenance costs).

 

[nobbyiscool]

CA will reduce Tests each summer before reintroducing Hobart, Canberra or anywhere else as an occasional sixth Test. There might be a "venue opening test"; and maybe an emergency move if no venue is available in Brisbane during Olympic construction and an Ashes is on or another covid-style forced venue shift. But that's about it in the 30-40 year life of the venue.

15-20 days a year depending on finals in AFL and BBL. Add presumably lower ticket prices than elsewhere given Tasmanians lower incomes and spending power, far less sponsorship availability and corporate box demand, to house about 40% of Perth stadium capacity at 75%+ of the construction cost (lower match day and probably lower maintenance costs).

I feel like there's a good chance that, if cricket even ends up there, Tassie could almost punished for its roof.

There's no reason to ever schedule a December/January test in Hobart again if weather isn't an issue. So I do expect that CA will find a use for it, but the test matches it will host are going to be when they can manufacture a 6-week break in winter with away games/Launceston games, drop in a pitch or 2, and have Hobart host double-header winter tests against Afghanistan and Bangladesh in front of sparse crowds that paint a rubbish picture of a new stadium

 

[WillHayward]

Surely step 1 is selling Bellerive off for apartments?

 

[nobbyiscool]

Surely step 1 is selling Bellerive off for apartments?

I've read that land is owned by Clarence City Council, which isn't where the stadium is located. The infrastructure is owned by cricket Tas, so who knows what happens in the event that it's ever sold. Lawyers getting rich I would guess. The Tasmanian Government certainly won't be.

 

[My_Username]

If Hobart Council and North Melbourne don't want big Melbourne clubs playing there against North Melbourne they have failed in their lobbying - Richmond play there again on August 17.

The situation has changed though.

Richmond are crap this year, they're trying to fire people up for the incoming Tas team, and Gale/Reiwoldt are part of the Tas team management, so probably pushed for it (an influence that wouldn't have existed previously).

 

[north_lad]

The situation has changed though.

Richmond are crap this year, they're trying to fire people up for the incoming Tas team, and Gale/Reiwoldt are part of the Tas team management, so probably pushed for it (an influence that wouldn't have existed previously).

Think this is the third time we've played Richmond there at least

 

[HirdsTheWord]

GWS has not made a dent in the NRL’s market share. Rugby League is the strongest it’s ever been in Western Sydney. Since 2012, GWS crowds have not changed at all. The NRL clubs in the area are up by 40% since the Giants entered the competition.

On the Gold Coast, neither the Suns nor the Titans crowds have changed since 2010-12.

TV ratings have not changed either with GWS games not rating any higher than games involving Victorian clubs. No figures available for GC.

14 years into a multi generational business plan.

GC and GWS will see returns when kids turn to adults and than have families of their own.

We are a long way off that yet but it will happen eventually.

 

[catters05]

14 years into a multi generational business plan.

GC and GWS will see returns when kids turn to adults and than have families of their own.

We are a long way off that yet but it will happen eventually.

Yep, but the Giants need to be 100% committed to West Sydney.

 

[HairyO]

Correct. A large part of the success that the Tasmanian government wants from the new club will be tourism… it’s a short trip for Victorians to come for a weekend when their club is playing, they will want a few thousand of them.

If the club plays at Bellerive they will go once and never go again. It’s a terrible experience, in the middle of nowhere and painful to get to.

Hawks in Launceston generates a lot of tourism money.

Very quick and easy to get from Melb to there. My parents go once a year from Syd and love spending a few extra days there.

The big problem with this new stadium deal is that the AFL and Feds have capped their spending meaning Tasmania 100% at risk from the cost blowouts we know will happen. And a lot of Tasmanians are wisely against this.

Having Vic talking heads call them crazy and shortsighted doesnt help. We know the true cost will smash the Tassie economy and there willnever be a net return on the investment.

 

[nick1408]

The situation has changed though.

Richmond are crap this year, they're trying to fire people up for the incoming Tas team, and Gale/Reiwoldt are part of the Tas team management, so probably pushed for it (an influence that wouldn't have existed previously).

In 2016 Richmond weren't great either - finished 13th with 8 wins. The only real difference is Gale and Riewoldt have switched sides but that doesn't take away from your original point that there could be little tourism to boost the economy.

Likely to be Richmond's third uncompetitive showing in Hobart but previous crowds (17544 &17844) should be good from the locals.