Interstate grand finals - where would you rather play an mcg tenant:

[DoItForCaptBlood]

That is another battle between conferences - East champion plays off against West.

Split the AFL into two conferences, then get the Vic champion playing the non-vic in a rotating SuperBowl.

I agree. Oh Bearded one suggested Carlton and the Dogs should move interstate to create a solutiom for his away GF problem.
The more likely scenario is VFL creates kts own comp and Adelaide can return to the SANFL.

Home final achieved!

 

[17er]

I’m tying to work out what exactly you’re arguement is... because the Victorians have resisted any move for 20 years that means it shouldn’t be discussed or considered??.. what, so it shouldn’t really be classed as an “Australian” Football League then??... maybe the “Victorian Australian Football League”..

And the league in the last five years is a completely different beast from what it was in the years previous to that... teams are now far more professional and new technology has allowed sports scientists to evaluate each and every player’s performance down to a finite level... every single player and player position can be recorded, where they move around the field, what their heart rate is, their level of endurance, their strengths and weaknesses at any point of the game is constantly analysed..
Along with hundreds of other factors.

All this means is that the competition between each club is narrowing each and every year and it shows. Every year the competition gets tighter and tighter... 16 wins in a season doesn’t even guarantee you a top 4 spot anymore!!...

Every tiny little advantage has an effect on the outcome of each and every game... and possibly the biggest variable advantage in the completion now days is the home ground advantage...

Every team should play an equal amount of home and away games in the minor rounds and home ground advantage during the finals should be earnt.. simple as that.. the biggest advantage in today’s game shouldn’t be dished our to teams that haven’t earnt it. Until such time as this occurs.. some teams will continue to be given a distinct advantage over others.

LOL, and you say you're having trouble working out what my argument is? This is just twaddle! The only point you actually make doesn't come until almost the end and it is one that the League is already addressing. Remember last year's ladder? Well, take the first 6, second 6 and third 6 and place them in divisions. Each team in the division plays each other twice, home and away, and plays the other 12 teams once. This is how the fixture is created and it is fair. Except it isn't really fair because Melbourne teams don't play Interstate as much as Interstate teams do, with as few as 4 games outside Victoria. Home ground advantage is diminished between rival Melbourne teams, which happens only once for Interstate teams during their intrastate derby/showdown/clash etc. But then again, even the most successful Victorian teams take their home games to places like Hobart, Launceston, Cairns, Alice Springs, Darwin, Ballarat (and they used to go to Canberra and the Gold Coast, which is what led to your "Australian" Football League. Toss in the fact that 2 VFL clubs were forced to relocate and you've got the nucleus of all the arguments you've mentioned.
My point is that the discussion is endless and ultimately fruitless. The AFL will never move the GF because it belongs to Melbourne.

 

[Bicko]

Ultimately it’s not a national league until the Melbourne Cricket Ground has its monopoly on the Grandfinal ripped from its greedy little hands.

Of the two teams that make the grand final.. the one who finished higher on the ladder should have the grandfinal held at their home ground and who gives a flying fig how big that ground is... it should be about the football occurring on the grass not the size of the crowd. The great majority of viewers of the Final are doing so from lounge rooms, pubs and backyards around the world. They are gonna watch it no matter where it’s played and regardless of how many bums on seats there are at the ground.

A team that comes third on the ladder shouldn’t get three home finals... they haven’t earnt it and thus don’t deserve it. Basically what the league is effectively saying is is that some teams need to aim to come first or second after the minor round to get home finals but others can simply aim for third or fourth..

Effectively rewarding the underachievers...In what way is this Australian???...

FFS.... It’s like the AFL are the teachers and we’re all back at the school athletics carnival where the special kid gets a 20m head start in the 100m sprint!!.... the name of last season’s special kid* was “Richmond”... and he’s been an underachiever for decades!. Better give him a leg up eh...

Is this the crap the AFL are gonna dish up???...

Now que all the commenters ignoring my arguement because they haven’t got an answer and simply pointing out I’m a disheveled crows supporter.. Crows won it in 97/98 and deserved to play most of their finals games interstate in 97/98 because they underperformed during the minor rounds. They ended up winning because they had the guts and determination, not because the league said “awe, you guys haven’t earnt it but we’ll give you home finals”..

I’d be embarrassed to wear their colours out in public if my team won because they got a leg up that they never earnt.

Richmond should’ve played their first final in Geelong and the granny if they made it after that in Adelaide

Until this happens the league doesn’t deserve to have the word “Australian” in its name and should be refered to as the VFL again.

* to clarify... by “special kid” I not refering to the mentally or physically disabled kids. They should always be given a helping hand when they want or need it..
I’m referring to the lazy, useless underachieving kids that were perfectly fine pysically and mentally.

I’m confident the Tigers won through guts and determination and the Crows lost because a lack of it. You say Richmond were the lazy, useless underachieving kid, yet all day the Tigers out numbered the Crows at the contested ball. Tigers played out of their skins to achieve the premiership. You are a fool to think otherwise. Only a mentally weak footballer would worry about playing at the G. The MCG didn’t stop Matt Crouch from racking up 37 possessions, maybe the rest of the team need to talk to him about consistency no matter the circumstances. Especially Tex. He thought he had it won.

 

[kranky al]

Lol
Scraping the bottom of the barrel a 9 team league that's second rate at best.

Riiight

So we show you gridiron - theres too many people



We show you the world cup - too many countries

We show you gaelic football - thats too smalk

We show you canadian - thats a shitty league.




Its almost like it doesnt matter what team sport we show you - that has neutral or rotating venues - doesnt matter how many / few follow the sport. Doesnt matter that the sport is perfectly content with 70k venues or 100k venues.

You will find something against it and thereby conclude that the only possible place you can hold a grand final is in melbourne. At the mcg.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I’m confident the Tigers won through guts and determination and the Crows lost because a lack of it. You say Richmond were the lazy, useless underachieving kid, yet all day the Tigers out numbered the Crows at the contested ball. Tigers played out of their skins to achieve the premiership. You are a fool to think otherwise. Only a mentally weak footballer would worry about playing at the G. The MCG didn’t stop Matt Crouch from racking up 37 possessions, maybe the rest of the team need to talk to him about consistency no matter the circumstances. Especially Tex. He thought he had it won.

I completely agree that the Tigers well and truely outplayed the crows at the MCG that day and won the game... but that’s not what this entire arguement is about.

It’s about the fact that team that finished third on the ladder got the home ground advantage over the team that finished top.

It’s also about the team finishing third playing their first game of the finals series at their home ground against the team that came second.. because the afl decided the game should be held at the g.

You and your fellow tigers supporters can muddy the waters all you like but if the tigers had have come second at the end of the home and away season and Geelong third and the AFL decided that the game was gonna be held in Geelong... or if adelaide came third and the tigers first yet the granny was held in Adelaide you lot would have had the biggest sook ever witnessed.

Geez, I mean some of you tigers were crying foul because you were told your team had to wear their away strip for the granny ffs...

So please address the actual discussion and try harder to keep up..

 

[Bearded Clam]

I agree. Oh Bearded one suggested Carlton and the Dogs should move interstate to create a solutiom for his away GF problem.
The more likely scenario is VFL creates kts own comp and Adelaide can return to the SANFL.

Home final achieved!

Careful what you wish for.. all it will take is a billionaire from somewhere around the world to see an opportunity, step in and create an AUssie rules super league, offering a hell of a lot more money for the players and clubs than what the AFL does and you’ll find that what you’re saying here could happen... has happened to Sports leagues in the past.

But the more likely scenario would be that the interstate teams leave the AFL for their own league and a couple of the bigger Victorian teams would follow and the rest of the vicco teams would play on in the VFL which would struggle to survive.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Those tears are delicious

So, nothing intelligent to add?... just petty insults.. I don’t mind the odd insult, I chuck around my fair share of them, but atleast add to the conversation and let us all know your side of the arguement..

 

[Heisenberg_]

So, nothing intelligent to add?... just petty insults.. I don’t mind the odd insult, I chuck around my fair share of them, but atleast add to the conversation and let us all know your side of the arguement..

Mate you'll find when you're unwilling to consider the other side of the argument like you've shown in this thread, your posts will be treated in this manner as they deserve to be.
It's also the truth your original post in this thread was a tantrum and nothing more.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Putting aside the fact that the rules don't entitle teams to home ground games (the ruling is games in the state where the team is based), there's just no way that anybody can reasonably argue that home ground advantage had THAT much of an influence in the outcome of the Richmond v Geelong final.

We beat Geelong by 51 points, so unless you're trying to suggest that home ground advantage is worth over 8 goals, then you're going to have to concede that Richmond earned the win fair and square.

I have some sympathy with the argument that the GF should be moved around a bit -- although given that after the MCG the next largest football stadium has a capacity of 60k I doubt there's any way it will happen.

That aside, I think you massively overstate the advantage that Richmond gained from playing at the G.

But we’ll never know if Geelong would’ve beaten the Tigers in the first final if it hadve been played in Geelong and not at the G will we... because the AFL decided it was gonna be played at the G..

And for the exact same reason we’ll never know what advantage Richmond gained by having the grandfinal played at the G..

That’s the whole point of this conversation.. it’s not about what homeground advantage the tigers may or may not have had and how this affected the result... it’s the fact they didn’t earn ANY home ground advantages in the first place!..

although we could take an aggregate score of the two games Richmond and Adelaide played in 2017 to judge the homeground advantage.. the one at the g and the one at Adelaide Oval... but you might not like that idea!...

 

[doppleganger]

Riiight

So we show you gridiron - theres too many people



We show you the world cup - too many countries

We show you gaelic football - thats too smalk

We show you canadian - thats a shitty league.




Its almost like it doesnt matter what team sport we show you - that has neutral or rotating venues - doesnt matter how many / few follow the sport. Doesnt matter that the sport is perfectly content with 70k venues or 100k venues.

You will find something against it and thereby conclude that the only possible place you can hold a grand final is in melbourne. At the mcg.

What have you shown?

Where do you think the World Cup finals are held when Australia hosts the World Cup...the MCG.

American and Canadian sports all have a conference systems, and the SuperBowl / GreyCups involve the two conference champions playing off...we don’t use that here.

The US doesn’t play SuperBowl at any of the big 100K college bowls anymore as they are outdated, have poor food facilities and no corporate or media suites. The States don’t have a standout stadium that is a step above the rest. They have 30 NFL stadiums that are what 65-85K capacity with all modern facilities required.

They don’t ‘rotate’ it either, Seattle the isolated city on the West Coast never hosted one...sound familiar!

Canada football, they are stadiums 30-50k again no standout stadium and again it is two conference champions that play-off. Perhaps we should do the same, have East v West conferences.

Gaelic footy finals all are played in Dublin.

Australian’s are incredibly lucky to have a standout stadium, so we use it.

 

[kranky al]

Careful what you wish for.. all it will take is a billionaire from somewhere around the world to see an opportunity, step in and create an AUssie rules super league, offering a hell of a lot more money for the players and clubs than what the AFL does and you’ll find that what you’re saying here could happen... has happened to Sports leagues in the past.

But the more likely scenario would be that the interstate teams leave the AFL for their own league and a couple of the bigger Victorian teams would follow and the rest of the vicco teams would play on in the VFL which would struggle to survive.

I really think this needs to happen for the sport to survive

We have soccer in the rear view mirror catching up fast


We have a large number of immigrants to this country from soccer backgrounds and more kids than ever playing soccer.

Once lots of aussies start making it overseas and soccer improves in this country to a level where its more watchable they will gleefully exploit the vic centricness of this organisation and contrast it with their own.

If you victorians honestly think the rest of the country that isnt afl - namely qld and nsw are going to be swayed by your hanging on to all the toys by your fingernails and squealing “mine mine mine”

While soccer finals are played all over the country - you really need to think again.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Mate you'll find when you're unwilling to consider the other side of the argument like you've shown in this thread, your posts will be treated in this manner as they deserve to be.
It's also the truth your original post in this thread was a tantrum and nothing more.

I’ll consider the other side of the story... when the other side actually puts forward an arguement that’s worthy... not just “it’s the way it is so put up with it” or “the g holds the biggest crowd” or “you’re just having a sook”..

My post was stating the facts whilst chucking in a couple of sly digs... nothing wrong with a couple of sly digs is there?

 

[Heisenberg_]

I’ll consider the other side of the story... when the other side actually puts forward an arguement that’s worthy... not just “it’s the way it is so put up with it” or “the g holds the biggest crowd” or “you’re just having a sook”..

My post was stating the facts whilst chucking in a couple of sly digs... nothing wrong with a couple of sly digs is there?

Of course not, but don't cry when people do the exact same to you makes you look even sillier then you already look

 

[Bearded Clam]

Of course not, but don't cry when people do the exact same to you makes you look even sillier then you already look

I’m certainly not crying about crew on here having a dig at me... what I don’t rate is those that have a dig but don’t add anything else to the conversation and don’t present an arguement or address the topic being discussed..

But it’s understandable... because there isn’t any real arguement that can be put forward to defend the grand final always being held at the G... all that those that defend it can come up with is “that’s the way it is” or “it’s the biggest stadium in the country”

There is one simple question (following)for the tigers supporters that have replied here and they can answer it with a simple yes or no;

“Would you be happy if this season the tigers finish top of the ladder, Geelong fourth and Adelaide third... and the AFL says the first week of the finals the tigers will play Geelong in Geelong and then if the tigers and Adelaide make the grand final the granny will be held in Adelaide...”

Like I said... a simple “yes” or “no” will suffice.. but I’d you want to elaborate go right ahead..

 

[Heisenberg_]

It's a moot point and clutching at straws because every single team rocks up to day 1 of pre season training in the knowledge that to win the flag they have to win games at the MCG, it's not a spur of the moment decision made a few weeks out to make life hard for the poor hard done by interstate teams, it's the way it's been forever and wasn't even a discussion when the Vic teams were down.
I fully expect you to ignore this like you've five throughout this thread when your arguments have been countered and you'll fire back with another irrelevant point

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Careful what you wish for.. all it will take is a billionaire from somewhere around the world to see an opportunity, step in and create an AUssie rules super league, offering a hell of a lot more money for the players and clubs than what the AFL does and you’ll find that what you’re saying here could happen... has happened to Sports leagues in the past.

But the more likely scenario would be that the interstate teams leave the AFL for their own league and a couple of the bigger Victorian teams would follow and the rest of the vicco teams would play on in the VFL which would struggle to survive.

An Aussie Rules Super league. Wow. Where my hypothetical was extremely unlikely, you've gone next level there.

However, in your super league scenario, the likely one would be a new SA team, which would be defecting players from Adelaide and Port.

So again, you've got your wish for a home final. What would you like to call your new team?

 

[Heisenberg_]

An Aussie Rules Super league. Wow. Where my hypothetical was extremely unlikely, you've gone next level there.

However, in your super league scenario, the likely one would be a new SA team, which would be defecting players from Adelaide and Port.

So again, you've got your wish for a home final. What would you like to call your new team?

The Kleenex Crows?

 

[Bearded Clam]

I really think this needs to happen for the sport to survive

We have soccer in the rear view mirror catching up fast


We have a large number of immigrants to this country from soccer backgrounds and more kids than ever playing soccer.

Once lots of aussies start making it overseas and soccer improves in this country to a level where its more watchable they will gleefully exploit the vic centricness of this organisation and contrast it with their own.

If you victorians honestly think the rest of the country that isnt afl - namely qld and nsw are going to be swayed by your hanging on to all the toys by your fingernails and squealing “mine mine mine”

While soccer finals are played all over the country - you really need to think again.

I remember having a conversation with my old man about the AFL over a decade ago and he said that by the end of this century the AFL will have gone the way of the dodo...

I thought he was talking crap of course but in reality it’s not that unrealistic..

The problem being is that, unless it starts branching out into other countries, it will be competing for relevance, sponsorship, resources and finance in an ever shrinking world (in that technological advance is making it easier and easier to get into peoples lounge rooms in every corner of the globe) and the big money will be thrown at the sports that are played/followed worldwide simply due to the larger audiences... and these will be the sports that professionals will aim to excel in and the youth will be more interested in playing.

It’s almost too late but it’s hard to see why the AFL aren’t pushing into the Chinese market even harder... and then looking at India... a great chunk of the world’s population live in these two countries and their people are going to find themselves with a lot more disposable income in the coming decades.. which sports are they going to be spending that cash on for their own entertainment?..

Meanwhile the AFL still can’t seem to seriously look outside Victoria...

 

[Bicko]

I completely agree that the Tigers well and truely outplayed the crows at the MCG that day and won the game... but that’s not what this entire arguement is about.

It’s about the fact that team that finished third on the ladder got the home ground advantage over the team that finished top.

It’s also about the team finishing third playing their first game of the finals series at their home ground against the team that came second.. because the afl decided the game should be held at the g.

You and your fellow tigers supporters can muddy the waters all you like but if the tigers had have come second at the end of the home and away season and Geelong third and the AFL decided that the game was gonna be held in Geelong... or if adelaide came third and the tigers first yet the granny was held in Adelaide you lot would have had the biggest sook ever witnessed.

Geez, I mean some of you tigers were crying foul because you were told your team had to wear their away strip for the granny ffs...

So please address the actual discussion and try harder to keep up..

Tigers first, Crows third, GF in Adelaide, lol. The only ones sooking were the crow boys in the rooms after game. ‘Mummy, boo hoo, it wasn’t supposed to happen like this’ lol. Wasting their time pretending to be tough with their stupid stance like pretentious morons. They were sh#tting themselves and couldn’t handle the pressure. MCG had little to do with it. Your offended because you lost and you’re trying to blame the AFL. It’s a business and the MCG was the best place for the game. Until there is another decent size ground, it will stay that way.

 

[Bearded Clam]

An Aussie Rules Super league. Wow. Where my hypothetical was extremely unlikely, you've gone next level there.

However, in your super league scenario, the likely one would be a new SA team, which would be defecting players from Adelaide and Port.

So again, you've got your wish for a home final. What would you like to call your new team?

Rugby League probably had the same attitude as you before Kerry Packer and Rupert Murdoch decided to go to war over it!!...

 

[Bearded Clam]

Tigers first, Crows third, GF in Adelaide, lol. The only ones sooking were the crow boys in the rooms after game. ‘Mummy, boo hoo, it wasn’t supposed to happen like this’ lol. Wasting their time pretending to be tough with their stupid stance like pretentious morons. They were sh#tting themselves and couldn’t handle the pressure. MCG had little to do with it. Your offended because you lost and you’re trying to blame the AFL. It’s a business and the MCG was the best place for the game. Until there is another decent size ground, it will stay that way.

So you’ve got nothing but the tired old “biggest ground” as well... glad you cleared that up for us all and thank you for proving my point..

Wanna give us all a yes or no on the question now you’ve got all that off your chest?...

 

[Bicko]

As much as a neutral venue would be fairer, or the game played at the minor prems home ground, it just wouldn’t be the same. The Grandfinal at the G. Awesome. Is that a yes or a no.

 

[Bearded Clam]

As much as a neutral venue would be fairer, or the game played at the minor prems home ground, it just wouldn’t be the same. The Grandfinal at the G. Awesome. Is that a yes or a no.

I do appreciate you’re first few words but... The rest sounds like a bit of a fence sit!.. but at least you’re being reasonable about it... are there other options?... one of the commenters early said remove the mcg from being any teams home ground and spread the games at the g evenly between all clubs so they get the same amount of games on the g throughout the year..

I just think the entire league needs to take that final step to become a truly national comp... some tough decisions need to made to do so and maybe it might take what happened to league in the 90’s with the rugby super league war to shake it up and make it happen... I hope not though because it almost destroyed rugby league and it’s still recovering from it now.

 

[Dc9798]

Tigers first, Crows third, GF in Adelaide, lol. The only ones sooking were the crow boys in the rooms after game. ‘Mummy, boo hoo, it wasn’t supposed to happen like this’ lol. Wasting their time pretending to be tough with their stupid stance like pretentious morons. They were sh#tting themselves and couldn’t handle the pressure. MCG had little to do with it. Your offended because you lost and you’re trying to blame the AFL. It’s a business and the MCG was the best place for the game. Until there is another decent size ground, it will stay that way.

Firstly, Adelaide aren’t the first, and won’t be the last, team to slip up like that on GF day, well played Richmond.
Secondly, the NFL proves time and time again with the Super Bowl that you don’t need a 100,000 capacity stadium to host the ultimate event. Both Perth and Adelaide now have brilliant stadiums (Adelaide Oval would need to get to at least 60,000), I think it’s a great discussion to be had as the game has far outgrown from an expanded VFL.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[kranky al]

I do appreciate you’re first few words but... The rest sounds like a bit of a fence sit!.. but at least you’re being reasonable about it... are there other options?... one of the commenters early said remove the mcg from being any teams home ground and spread the games at the g evenly between all clubs so they get the same amount of games on the g throughout the year..

I just think the entire league needs to take that final step to become a truly national comp... some tough decisions need to made to do so and maybe it might take what happened to league in the 90’s with the rugby super league war to shake it up and make it happen... I hope not though because it almost destroyed rugby league and it’s still recovering from it now.

Having experienced a game at the g

That would be the minimum condition to keep it there

Equal games exposure